Garmin Edge 800

[macthebike]

I have been borrowing my mate`s eTrex legend H which is good for route navigation, but has problems displaying Open Street maps. 
So I`m thinking of buying the Edge 800 with the O.S. UK coverage on an SD card. I`m assuming that  by inserting the card I would have all the UK available at the same time, without needing to interact with my PC (except to create or transfer routes to the GPS).
           Can I really assume this?.........If so, I`ll have one.

[Feline]

I have been borrowing my mate`s eTrex legend H which is good for route navigation, but has problems displaying Open Street maps. 
So I`m thinking of buying the Edge 800 with the O.S. UK coverage on an SD card. I`m assuming that  by inserting the card I would have all the UK available at the same time, without needing to interact with my PC (except to create or transfer routes to the GPS).
           Can I really assume this?.........If so, I`ll have one.

You night be better off buying your map on DVD not to SD card from what I've read on here. It's more flexible I have heard.
You can copy the map from the DVD to any old cheapo SD card in your device and have some extra software and thigies you can do on the PC then if you ever want to.

[kettrinboy]

Ive got the 800 with OS 50k maps on micro SD card, you get all of UK coverage and if you buy it in the bundled version, effectively you get the map card for about 40 quid,they are about 180 quid purchased separately ,you also get more than just the maps, for example the points of interest such as shops, petrol stations, banks etc could be handy when you are planning a ride in an unknown area.

[Feline]

Ive got the 800 with OS 50k maps on micro SD card, you get all of UK coverage and if you buy it in the bundled version, effectively you get the map card for about 40 quid,they are about 180 quid purchased separately ,you also get more than just the maps, for example the points of interest such as shops, petrol stations, banks etc could be handy when you are planning a ride in an unknown area.

I could be wrong here because I haven't got any paid maps on my Edge, but I thought you can't use the SD paid version of a map to make a map that's a combo of more than one map, e.g. add GB contours to the Navigaor NT map then stick it on your device?

[Biggsy]

I could be wrong here because I haven't got any paid maps on my Edge, but I thought you can't use the SD paid version of a map to make a map that's a combo of more than one map, e.g. add GB contours to the Navigaor NT map then stick it on your device?

That's (almost*) true with the Edge 605/705.  I don't know if it's the same with the 800.

* There are ways of combining paid SD maps with others, but it requires some fairly intense geekery.

[eeymsmo]

I've got the Garmin City Navigator card, and OpenSteetmaps installed on my 800.

I find I quite often need to use both of them to complete a route. Last week on the Lincolnshire Cross 200 I needed to use OSM for Leg 1, and then user the City Navigator maps for Leg 3 with legs 2+4 being down to personal preference. This seems to be down to how good the local map geeks are at updating OSM versus how 'rural' the road is.

One thing to be aware of is that the 800 will calculate routes using all the available enabled maps on the device. This caused me no end of strange alerts and routing decisions until I cottoned on, and now I only enable the map I need at the time.

[marcusjb]

I've got the Garmin City Navigator card, and OpenSteetmaps installed on my 800.

I find I quite often need to use both of them to complete a route. Last week on the Lincolnshire Cross 200 I needed to use OSM for Leg 1, and then user the City Navigator maps for Leg 3 with legs 2+4 being down to personal preference. This seems to be down to how good the local map geeks are at updating OSM versus how 'rural' the road is.

One thing to be aware of is that the 800 will calculate routes using all the available enabled maps on the device. This caused me no end of strange alerts and routing decisions until I cottoned on, and now I only enable the map I need at the time.

How are you running both? (sorry if we're straying OT)

I have an 800 with City Navigator on the SD card - but I am guessing the advantages of OSM is more bike path mapping and it gets updated if a new road or whatever is built?

Is it worth me using OSM as well?  I always thought it was an either/or situation?

Any pointers would be appreciated.

[Biggsy]

Sometimes an OSM map has more or better detail for a particular area than a City Navigator; sometimes vice versa.  So it's handy to be able to quickly switch between them.

Maps can also be combined with contour maps.  See other threads for how to.

[eeymsmo]

I just grabbed the img files from FREE British Isles, UK and Ireland Maps Home (talkytoaster) and copied them onto the SD card, then they pop up in the maps section in System Settings.

The biggest advantage though is that you can have them on the hard drive of a machine and use them in mapsource. This means I've always got a detailed map for route planning handy without having to have the SD card with me (ie; use works time to plot routes )

Yes, they do have more cycle paths though that can also cause problems as MapSource will try and use them occasionally rather than the decent road, but you can usually ignore them.

I've found having both maps really handy as so far (touch wood) where one's been a bit ropey the other's been fine so I've been able to get a decent route.

Yes, you will get updates, though you'll need to manually grab them each time. I think Talkytoaster regenerates them about once a week. And of course you'll be able to update the main source maps yourself (felt good to delete an entire section of road and bridge the other month). Always good form to upload gpx's to OSM as well so that even if you don't want to correct bits other people have the data to do it.

[Biggsy]

I just grabbed the img files from FREE British Isles, UK and Ireland Maps Home (talkytoaster) and copied them onto the SD card, then they pop up in the maps section in System Settings.

This is a difference from the Edge 605/705 - that demands all maps are combined into a single file on the memory card.

So 800 users: be careful that what you're instructed comes from those who know specifically the 800.  That doesn't include me!

[Feline]

I just grabbed the img files from FREE British Isles, UK and Ireland Maps Home (talkytoaster) and copied them onto the SD card, then they pop up in the maps section in System Settings.

This is a difference from the Edge 605/705 - that demands all maps are combined into a single file on the memory card.

So 800 users: be careful that what you're instructed comes from those who know specifically the 800.  That doesn't include me!

Ahhh this is good to know, thanks. I had assumed the 800 was basically a 705 with a touch screen, it seems I was underestimating it!

[Chris S]

If you get the choice to get maps on DVD rather than SD, do that.

As I understand it, maps supplied on SD are locked to that SD alone, which is a pain. Also - there have been (may now be solved) issues (as in, it wasn't possible) with transferring maps from SD to a PC app like BaseCamp.

It's also much easier to lose an SD card than it is a DVD.

[frankly frankie]

I don't have any direct experience of Discoverer but it seems to me it's never gonna work on a 2x1 screen.  City looks very crude but IMO is actually very effective - the right tool for the job.
Incidentally it's worth knowing that Discoverer has a 'hidden' copy of City (UK only) included as part of the package.  This sits on an underlying layer of the map and so is usually invisible, but is there to provide the navigational info to the GPS. 
It *may* (speculating here) be possible to switch off the OS layer to reveal the City.

[Feanor]

You are correct that the GB discoverer has a hidden 'routable' layer embedded in it, hidden under the OS raster tiles.   And it is based on the same map data as City Navigator, but I don't know which revision.

It's not possible to 'turn off' the OS overlay and reveal the routable layer only.   ( At least, not on the Montana 600 ).   In the map product selection screen, you can just enable/disable the whole product.

Regarding whether to purchse on MicroSD or a download version for use with Mapsource/BaseCamp, remember that the SD card can be used in *any* compatible device ( it's locked to the actual physical SD card which has a unique ID ), but a download version will be locked to one GPS device unless you perform Dark Magic and un-lock the mapset in Mapsource.   So bear that in mind if there's and liklihood of swapping devices.

[sbseven]

If you get the choice to get maps on DVD rather than SD, do that.

As I understand it, maps supplied on SD are locked to that SD alone, which is a pain. Also - there have been (may now be solved) issues (as in, it wasn't possible) with transferring maps from SD to a PC app like BaseCamp.

It's also much easier to lose an SD card than it is a DVD.

I'm not sure this advice is as clear cut anymore.

You are right that you can now view SD card based maps on the computer using Basecamp (certainly City Navigator, not sure about the OS mapset). The lack of this facility was the main reason people often quoted it was better to get the DVD over the SD card. The problem with the DVD is that it's tied to one GPS device. The SD card isn't. So when you replace your GPS, your DVD map investment(s) become coasters.

Now, as has been discussed recently, you can circumvent the DVD locking using the "dark side", but that is not legal. (Incidently, the same "technique" can be used to circumvent the "SD map locked to the SD card" problem as well). Unless you're into "that", I now advise most people to get the SD card version over the DVD version.

I agree with FF that the City Navigator is much better and more useful than the more detailed OS product on a tiny GPS screen (like the Edge 800). (Assuming the track/bridleway/footpath OS info isn't important to you. Probably not if you're buying an Edge 800).

Don't forget also that the free OSM mapping is very good in the UK (and many other places) and you might even get away without needing to buy a commercial mapping product at all.

[Feanor]

you can now view SD card based maps on the computer using Basecamp (certainly City Navigator, not sure about the OS mapset).

The GB Discoverer mapset .img file can be read off the device or card-reader just fine.
I've done so here.
But it does take some time to load it over ye USB cable.

[dasmoth]

It’s also interesting that Discoverer uses City Navigator to interface with the device. What this suggests is that Garmin wrote their own software and the device to work in harmony. Adding 3rd party maps such as Dicoverer is an afterthought needing a work-around. Perhaps offering these is just a marketing thing in that they feel the need to add this option to fight off the likes of Satmap.

Discoverer is a raster map: it's pretty-much impossible to use it directly for automatic routing.  The ideal would be to combine it with a vector dataset that covers exactly the same set of roads, but at the time GB Discoverer was released, I don't believe the OS was supplying a vector dataset which was really suitable for that kind of application (today, Vectormap District might be -- but that's quite new and still in beta...).  Using their existing vector dataset for routing sounds like the pragmatic compromise.

[frankly frankie]

It's not possible to 'turn off' the OS overlay and reveal the routable layer only.   ( At least, not on the Montana 600 ).

It might still be worth investigating, if anyone here has the 800/Discoverer combination.  Judging by my new-model Etrex, map handling has altered in recent models.  Older models (eg Dakota) can deconstruct map combos that my new Etrex30 can't.

[Feanor]

However does anybody know if there is enough internal memory on the 800 to allow a device running Discoverer on SD to take City Navigator Maps from the DVD.

Apparently, the edge 800 has very little internal memory ( just about 100Meg, I've read, with only aroung 80MB free ).

CN Europe ( all of it ) will take up about 2.5GB, and would require you to put it on an external SD card.
If you select only UK + Ireland tiles in mapsource, that will build a mapset which is about 220MB, still too big.
Perhaps if you selected only your local area's tile in mapsource, it might just be able to build a mapset small enough to go into the internal memory, but I'd not hold my breath!

Many Garmin devices are able to support more than 1 mapset ( *.img file ) on the SD card, though.
You just need to re-name them so they are not both called gmapsupp.img.
Discoverer UK at 1:50k is about a 2.6GB mapset.
It should be possible to have both Discoverer and CN on an 8GB card
Or a 4GB card if you just take UK and Ireland from the CN.

[frankly frankie]

Apparently, the edge 800 has very little internal memory ( just about 100Meg, I've read, with only aroung 80MB free ).
...
Perhaps if you selected only your local area's tile in mapsource, it might just be able to build a mapset small enough to go into the internal memory, but I'd not hold my breath!

Standard practice in the bad old days.
My Legend C (still in use, as a spare) has 24Mb memory, and no card.  You can still get enough mapping on it for PBP, and riding to/from Paris from the channel port.  Though including the autorouting data would probably take that particular mapset over the top, it adds about 20% to the file size.
Same with the End to End - the map just fits on.

[Martin]

related question, been trying .tcx and .gpx files on a friend's 800; it seems to navigate turn by turn with a .tcx but with the .gpx it navigates you to the start and then leaves you to it,

is there an easy way of converting a .gpx (from a ridden ride with another device) to a .tcx file?

[frankly frankie]

Upload gpx to Bikehike then download as .tcx ??

[Feanor]

I find the OS mapping a bit cluttered looking for general on-road navigating, but nice for walking.  Also, 1:50k is a but zoomed-out for detailled street-level navigating. Cycling is somewhere in between, and as I don't yet have a cycling GPS, I can't say which I'd prefer.

But I'd advise using it on routes which you can do with your eyes shut, to get an understanding of how it works and how to use it.   I often use my GPS for things that I don't really need it for so that I know how to use it in cases where I do.

I also did my sailing RYA Day Skipper course some years back, and that is very good at showing you how GPS is a tool, and how it should be used. I tend to plan un-known journeys in mapsource, and create waypoints and routes in advance.   I'm not relying on the machine 'just taking me' to an ultimate destination.    I'm having it navigate me along a route I've pre-prepared.   TBH, using Mapsource is really essential to get the most out of the device.

[Hot Flatus]

  TBH, using Mapsource is really essential to get the most out of the device.

Essential for the 800??

I've not used an 800, but I do have a 705, a 60csi and a ten year old etrex and TBH one attempt at using Mapsource was all it took for me to look for something better.

[Feanor]

Well, as I said, I've not used a cycling-specific unit.
But I can't imagine it's much different to any other garmin hand-held unit.

But to be able to create waypoints and routes, then Mapsource will let you have that control.
What specific problem did you have, and how did you overcome it with something better?

Each to their own, etc.