spec me a commuting / touring bike..

[mike]

while I'm still in a job, I might as well make use of their cycle to work scheme... I've got a v. friendly LBS owner who recons he can get just about anything under a grand through the scheme, so what would you go for?

my commute is 18 miles each way, country lanes for the first 12 then through cambridge.  Fixed is fine (have been using my pompino) but I want a bike i can tour on too, so it will need some gears.  My spec list is:
 - steel
 - front and back rack mounts
 - room for 32mm tyres and guards, with plenty of clearance
 - 3 x 8 or 3 x 9 with bar end shifters (or 3 x 10 I suppose, if it's robust enough)
 - road bars
 - handling towards 'road bike' end of the spectrum rather than 'touring bike'
 - prefer rim brakes, never really got on with discs

and not too 'bling' looking so it doesnt get nicked

current favourite is either a surly cross check / long haul trucker or a kaffenback with forks that'll take a set of panniers.  Any other suggestions, or any changes you'd make to the shopping list above?

[Polar Bear]

If you seriously want to load it up for touring I would recommend something akin to a Galaxy with a slightly longer wheelbase rather than more 'road' geometry.  You can put narrow tyres on for general use and touring tyres when you load her up.

There is plenty of opinion about touring on thin tyres, and, of course, almost anything is possible.   However, IMO touring in comfort is best done with fatter rubber.

As for geometry:  If you have more of a road geometry you either have to compromise with smaller rear panniers, or, set them further back behind the axle which affects handling IME.

Rim brakes is fine but please, don't be conned into cantis for touring.   My experience on an Orbit Ventura as a big chap with a loaded bike was simply inadequate braking when it came to downhill sections.   Safety leaves no room for sentiment IMO.

 

[Efrogwr]

If you seriously want to load it up for touring I would recommend something akin to a Galaxy with a slightly longer wheelbase rather than more 'road' geometry.  You can put narrow tyres on for general use and touring tyres when you load her up.

There is plenty of opinion about touring on thin tyres, and, of course, almost anything is possible.   However, IMO touring in comfort is best done with fatter rubber.

As for geometry:  If you have more of a road geometry you either have to compromise with smaller rear panniers, or, set them further back behind the axle which affects handling IME.

Rim brakes is fine but please, don't be conned into cantis for touring.   My experience on an Orbit Ventura as a big chap with a loaded bike was simply inadequate braking when it came to downhill sections.   Safety leaves no room for sentiment IMO.

Two matters arising from this:

Changing tyres makes a lot of difference. Having two pairs of wheels with very different tyres (light and fast, or heavy duty) almost feels like having two bikes.


Cantilevers; when set up properly, they work very well. Polar Bear had bad experience of cantis on an Orbit bike.  The same happened to one of my customers; a big lad, in North Wales. The brakes fitted were a sick joke. Totally ineffective and almost impossible to adjust. The cantis were a low profile imitation of the Marinovative brake from the 80s. The levers were Dia Compe 287V, therefore they didn't pull enough cable to work cantis properly. Because the brake mechanisms were so poor, I replaced them with V-brakes. He can stop the bike now! I would advise against "low profile" cantis: go for the "old fashioned" type or Vs with suitable levers.

[mike]

cheers PB, hadnt thought about the heel strike on a CX type frame, I've got big feet too.

i quite like cantis, I cant stand the scraping from disc brakes..   The frogglegs on my pomp work a treat.

How fat a tyre would you go for? 32's as big as I've been so far

[Polar Bear]

My canti's were Avid shorty 6 pulled by Shimano 105 sti's.   Unladen they were adequate most of the time.  Laden and/or when descending they were about as effective as Ed Milliband.

If I ever had a drop barred tourer again I'd run V's from appropriate Cane Creek levers and downtube shifters or perhaps, if possible, mtb style sti's sitting each side of the stem.   

I toured on 32's.   

If you are sure that the froglegs will do the job I suppose it means that you can use sti/ergo levers should you wish to.

[greenmeansgo]

- handling towards 'road bike' end of the spectrum rather than 'touring bike'

current favourite is either a surly cross check / long haul trucker

These are incompatible. The LHT corners like a tanker. Feels very stable, but the opposite end of the spectrum.

I've been looking at the Kaffenback frames recently. They have swap-drop outs or whatever Planet-X call them. Upshot is you have lots of flexibility for using discs/rim brakes/ even running S/S I believe. Brilliant idea. I think the specs said it weighs the same as a Pomp, which is heavy for a fixie, but for a touring bike it would be relatively light. I'm not sure about heel clearance and the geometry of this frame (the pomp doesn't have huge amounts of heel clearance and I'm size 9.5).

The Kaffenback fork is a bit like the Kona P2 on my tourer in that it has disc mounts as well as canti posts (if you get the disc version). Which means you can change your mind later on re: brakes. BB7Rs work a treat on my Sutra. That said  a well set up pair of Tektro 520s should be fine (in the dry)....right?

edit: the only problem with having disc-compatibility that you've no intention of ever using is that you're carrying extra weight around...

[mrcharly-YHT]

I would say that the problem with Avid shorties is that you can't set them up so that they increase leverage as the pads approach the rims (rather, they lose leverage).

With Frogleggs (which are just modern copies of the classic old mafac), the story is quite different. I have one set on the front of my mercian, and the braking power is considerable.

Having said that, it is far easier to set up V brakes to give adequate power, and the pads are more widely available.

Your desire to carry front panniers does limit things to the tourer end of the spectrum. Never ridden with a pair myself, but I can't see how stability with front panniers on is compatible with 'road' bike geometry.

[mcshroom]

Doesn't the tricross take front panniers? (whether you'd like to trust panniers mounted on carbon forks, even with the appropriate fixing holes being present I don't know).

I'm another heavy tourer with cantis (Tektro Oryx in my case). They are probably not as powerful as v-brakes, but the only time I've felt they were struggling was coming down from the Lecht fully loaded up, and even then they stopped me and all that weight on a 20% slope (just not very quickly). I tend to chicken out of decents before the brakes do.

[mike]

agree with you mrC, I switched from avid shorty to froglegs a couple of years ago, they're in a different league.

Might try a pannier on the back of the pomp and see if theres enough clearance, I do love riding it so a kaff might be the right option.  I can always change the forks if I need a set of front panniers.


hadnt thought of a tricross, they're fairly sensible $$ too.. 

[mcshroom]

Can't find much on touring with a front rack on a tricross. So far I've found someone on lonely planet who managed a 2000 mile ride through the USA on one, and antoher article on CTC which covers the difficulty fitting some low rider racks and one guy saying his flexed a bit under load.

If I was going to use a tricross then I'd be tempted to switch the fork, or at least use a front rack with a bracing bar over the wheel like a Tubus Tara

[gene hunt]

Go for a Dawes Horizon, switch to narrower tyres and it is a great all rounder.

I had an older Kaffenback and did find the bars a little low on the longer rides.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Carradice Limpets are front panniers that don't require a rack and they should be suitable for carbon forks.

[mike]

or what about a cotic roadrat, which has slightly longer chainstays than the kaff..

dawes horizon looks like a good 'off the peg' option too, cheers Gene.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Roadrat - ah, yes, that's the one I was trying to think of.

If you are doing lightweight camping, I don't think you need front panniers. A bar bag is great; keep your map/gps in the top, snacks, camera to hand for taking pics, sunscreen, wallet, etc, etc.

It's much easier to fit a bar bag if you *aren't* using shimano STIs.

[Ham]

The Pometamine (which is fundamentally the same as the Kaffenback I think?) has more compact geometry than I would want for touring. My 50 centimes would be, put up with the (limited) noise of disks and go for BB7 on drop bars or any hydraulic on flats. I  would also have different tyres for touring and commuting.

[mike]

damn, I think cotic have stopped doing the geometry that works with drops.. all their 'off the shelf' bikes are flat barred and the right top tube for me at 6'2" would be the small frame (which I guess would be quite low)

good point about barbag over front panners too.

[tiermat]

It's much easier to fit a bar bag if you *aren't* using shimano STIs.

Or are using the more modern STIs (105 and above now have underbar routing for both gear and brake cables)

TBH though, if you know when building/speccing the bike up that you are going to use a bar bag then leave a bit more cable outer at the front and they nicely fit in front of the bar bag (that's how I have my Inbred)

[giropaul]

With your list of wants and needs I think I'd be consulting Mr Hewitt about his frames and bikes (Cheviot etc).

[fruitcake]

I find my Dawes Horizon surprisingly responsive for a tourer, even with 35mm Michelin World Tour tyres.
Recommended.
135mm between dropouts so needs 700c touring wheels (i.e. MTB hubs) rather than 130mm road hubs.

[mike]

cheers fruity, that makes two votes for the horizon...  I'll go to the shop in cambridge that has them (grumpy ben heywards) and have a play!!

the cheviot looks excellent but is a bit too...... shiny! (and is over a grand)

[Luke]

If you are considering a kaffenback, then it would be worth loading up your pomp how you would do for touring, to see how it handles.

[Robh]

Apologies if someone has already suggested this, but a friend of mine bought a Ridgeback Voyage last year for a longish commute, and he is very pleased with it. It looks to be very good value and would seem to tick a lot of your boxes.

[mike]

If you are considering a kaffenback, then it would be worth loading up your pomp how you would do for touring, to see how it handles.

yup, have already warned MrsMike that I'm stealing / borrowing the rack off her bike to put on the pomp for a bit!

[DrMekon]

I've got 37mm Michelin Pilot Sports on your old Tricross. Absolutely cracking tyres for grip and comfort. It rolls over everything.

Big tyres don't necessarily mean slow tyres. On the grotty roads round our way, it means you and forget worrying about crappy road surfaces.

The Ridgeback looks really nice too - I think they have one in Howes.

[Efrogwr]

Another vote for the  Horizon, but change the brakes to the Frogglegs type.