Cadence

[BPSparks]

Hello
I've recently taken up cycling.
I read somewhere on the tinternet that I should be focusing on working towards a cadence of 90 - 100 per minute.
My natural or rather comfortable cadence was about 60.
I've been putting on some miles when training and have been consciously increasing this to 70 - 75 with an aim to carry on to about 90-95.

Now, I went out the other day with a mate thats been cycling for a few years now.
He hardly changed gears apart from ascending hills and his cadence was well below 60, I'd say 40ish.
He left me in his dust a few times, which might have been due to him riding a full carbon 

Am I correct in continuing to try and increase my cadence or should I just "mash it" and not worry about it ?

[mike]

yes..


my view is that it's very personal and different from person-person, 40 sounds a bit low but 90-100 sounds a bit high.  If he's quicker than you, he's probably a better cyclist, nothing to do with the bike or his cadence. Try riding with a higher spin rate and see how you get on? its supposed to be better for your knees...

[simonp]

Higher cadence will be better for your knees and back, probably.  Too high and it becomes inefficient and you waste energy.

YMMV though and some people are “pushers” and some are “spinners”.  I’m more of a spinner.

[Kim]

I'm far from an expert, but it strikes me that the only way to find out if you're a masher or a spinner is to become at least reasonably competent at both and see what works best.

I don't think there's a one true way, though I'm in the short-cranks-and-spin camp for knee and lung reasons, considering 80-100 to be a sensible cruising cadence.  The fixie riders use both methods according to terrain.

[amaferanga]

I think your mate may have been messing around a bit if your pace is much slower than his normal pace.  When I ride with folk that are slower than me I often find myself mashing at a very low cadence,  but since the power required is still down on what I can do it doesn't seem to be a problem.  If I'm going balls out and/or racing then I revert to my normal cadence which would see me spinning at 90-100 rpm most of the time, though I prefer lower cadence for climbing (more like 70-80 rpm).

Each to his own though - I think unless your cadence is <70 rpm all the time and you're having problems with your knees then don't worry about it.  High cadence works better for racing as it allows you to respond to surges in pace quicker, but if you're not racing then its obviously not essential.

[vorsprung]

Some science people say that faster is better

Welcome to 53x12.com

Like amaferanga and the others have said though some people are "mashers" and some "spinners" and there are individual diiferences

If you want to go fast then you have to be able to spin fast and be able to put in the force also

[BPSparks]

Wow, thanks for all the info and also the encouragement.

Another new thing learnt....
Thanks
 

[Alouicious]

The test.

Ride an ergometer set to constant power. eg 200W.

Start with a high cadence and SLOWLY reduce ( 1 rpm every minute ) watching or recording HR.

Your MAX Efficiency is where the HR is lowest.

It might be a VERY small difference in HR, so BE PATIENT and controlled.

[BPSparks]

If I had the means to do that I would, in the mean time.....

I cycled the same distance today (33 miles) with half of the route being the same as the first.

This time I thought I wouldn't bother focusing on a higher cadence and just focus on pushing through on the higher gears. I was attempting to see if I was naturally a "masher" or "spinner"   

Good news - my average speed was faster

Bad news - 1. I was completely knackered after about 25 miles
                  2. My recovery time is much longer, and this is after being off the bike for two days.
                  3. My knee started hurting in the end

So I can say I definitely prefer spinning and won't be trying that again in a hurry.

[rogerzilla]

I did some messing on a turbo trainer with a HRM many years ago, when I was a little better trained than I am now, although probably not much good for anything other than an evening "10" since I wasn't doing any long rides at all.  My natural cadence, when reasonably fresh and on a bike with gears, is about 105 rpm.  However, the cadence at which I could produce the highest aerobic power for 20 minutes was more like 80-85rpm.

You tend to find that the fast guys in TTs are pushing - not spinning - very big gears.  Purists hate this, and it is less likely to work for a "50" or a 24, let alone distance riding like audax or touring, but it is the most efficient for an all-out effort.

If you ride fixed, you discover that cadence doesn't matter as much as people think it does!  I've trickled to work in the snow at 40rpm and ridden with tailwinds at 120rpm, descending at 180rpm in I'm-going-to-die style.  If it feels like you're pushing too hard and you have no gear to change down to, get out of the saddle to save your knees.

[GruB]

Commuting sees me sitting on 86 if I'm on the Etape with guards / Nelson - and this is generally in wet or poor weather conditions.  I am 90 or thereabouts if I'm on the TCR.  I think the main difference is the style of bike with the TCR just never wanting to go slow.

I used to support the spinning side of the discussion however after 3 months of fixed in Winter I am now a combination of both now I'm back on gears. 

Spinning doesn't seem to produce lactic acid like mashing does though.

[mattc]

...
However, the cadence at which I could produce the highest aerobic power for 20 minutes was more like 80-85rpm.

You tend to find that the fast guys in TTs are pushing - not spinning - very big gears.  Purists hate this, and it is less likely to work for a "50" or a 24, let alone distance riding like audax or touring, but it is the most efficient for an all-out effort.

I think you're sort of right, but it's more about a continuum. The slower revs will produce muscle fatigue quicker, so the longer the event, the higher cadence you need to cover the distance in minimum time. A 2 mile hill climb is probably optimal at even lower revs than your 10 miles.

The 'purist' view is good for rides of many hours, plus it's better to finish event uninjured (allowing training/competition the following week). So IMO it's better to err too fast a cadence than too low.

Bear in mind that your 80-85 is much higher than many 'hard' riders use! So I suspect some of them ain't getting their best possible power.

[Alouicious]

A serious timetrialist will be on the turbotrainer with a PowerTap, HRM and his buddy standing by with a Blood lactate test kit.

After several sessions over the course of the winter, he'll know what the best cadence is for him.

[amaferanga]

A serious timetrialist will be on the turbotrainer with a PowerTap, HRM and his buddy standing by with a Blood lactate test kit.

After several sessions over the course of the winter, he'll know what the best cadence is for him.

Only trouble is that his best cadence on the turbo won't necessarily be the same as his best cadence on the road.

[nmcgann]

Only trouble is that his best cadence on the turbo won't necessarily be the same as his best cadence on the road.

That is true, I do about 89-90rpm on the turbo, but 82-86rpm TT-ing on the road. That is maximum power over 20mins-2hours.

This cadence range is only really an issue when at the absolute limit - I can do 70-100rpm on easy/moderate rides no probs and I agree that the longer the ride the less muscular strain the better, so faster spinning works well.

[Bigsybaby]

I think its all been said above, the theorists like to suggest high a cadence as you can endure which puts less strain on the wee legs, however, I have found personally the lower cadence has less impact on my heart rate. Generally though I aim at 80 when touring/Audaxing and end up with an average around 70

[Feline]

This thread is giving me ideas, I have a blood lactate gadget at work 

[Kim]

This thread is giving me ideas, I have a blood lactate gadget at work 

SCIENCE!

[clarion]

Spinning ftw!

I may as well be the fifth member...

[teethgrinder]

You tend to find that the fast guys in TTs are pushing - not spinning - very big gears.  Purists hate this, and it is less likely to work for a "50" or a 24, let alone distance riding like audax or touring, but it is the most efficient for an all-out effort.

I reckon Wilco was pedalling about 80rpm, as a guess, when he got the 24 hour record. He wasn't spinning fast. I don't remember Gethin Butler, John Warnock or Nik Gardiner pedalling particularly fast either. I think that Lynne Taylor pedals at about 90-100rpm. If you're in a big gear, you don't have to push it hard.

But for a big power output, you need muscle to push a bigger gear. Lance Armstrong had a fast cadence because he lost muscle after he got cancer, so couldn't push as big a gear.

I think you just have to find out what you prefer. Spinning and grinding both have different pros and cons though. Just experiment and have fun. See what you prefer. Nobody seems to agree either way.

[GrahamG]

Since upping the distances to include 400 and 600 km audaxes, I've found a slightly lower cadence suits me better. Quite odd really but spinning 90 odd rpm for anything more than 5 or 6 hours just makes my knees ache.

[Alouicious]

All I know is
"the bumpier the road, the higher the gear I should be in."

One chap at my club spins round the 10 mile TT course.

Its pretty bumpy and I'm in 53 x 12.

I beat him by 10s... 

He said he couldn't keep a steady rythym..

[teethgrinder]

I reckon Wilco was pedalling about 80rpm, as a guess, when he got the 24 hour record.

After this weekend.

Again, I repeat what I said above.

Fantastic ride!

[Nonsteeler]

As a beginner I think this a good advice:

I'm far from an expert, but it strikes me that the only way to find out if you're a masher or a spinner is to become at least reasonably competent at both and see what works best.

You may be a masher (or not) on a given bike/distance/terrain combination but make sure you can spin. Most people can mash but not all can spin. So make sure to get out of your current cadence comfort zone from time to time by intentionally choosing  a smaller gear for ride/ a couple of ks. Or get a fixed wheel with a reasonably low gear (say below 67in) and try a couple descents near home...