Author Topic: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?  (Read 7266 times)

What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« on: 27 December, 2011, 02:46:53 pm »
A progress report and a request for some advice please...

I came back to cycling in September at the age of 60 after 40+ years not cycling (having been a distance but not speed merchant in my youth!) - bought a hybrid & started riding, initially just 5 or 6 miles at a gentle pace every other day, and realised I was thoroughly enjoying it.

So over the last three months I've kept at it and gradually increased the distance and tried to up my pace - this morning about 20 miles and according to the little app on my phone, average speed up at 12.9 mph from 10.9 when I started - so I'm feeling a bit smug (and yes I know you 200km audax folk may smile but it's taken some effort)

My aim for next year is to be able to get up to 50 miles in a day without killing myself!

Now the observations I've made and the questions I have..

After about 15 miles I start to feel pretty tired - so far I've just been carrying a bottle of water and a bar of chocolate - but all that does is give me indigestion - If I try & push my pace up a bit or it's pretty hilly then I seem to often end up with a blinding headache - so first question is - do other (older) folk find these electrolyte energy drinks help with that?

My bike is a Giant CRS 3.0 hybrid with a gel saddle - seems fine for around an hour but then just seems to become uncomfortable - any observation on gel saddles would be welcome

My weight has remained the same at 12st 8 or 10, but my body shape has changed drastically - the wobbly spare tyre has disappeared completely - certainly no six pack but I'm delighted apart from the fact that all my trousers are now too large around the waist.

Finally it's become abundantly clear that I need another bike - I like the look of the Cheviots from Paul Hewitt and it appears after a long chat with Geoff Smith in Bolton (my LBS) that he builds bikes with the same frame as Mr Hewitt uses. Just how much advantage is there in getting a bike built for you rather than buying "off the peg" ?

And even more finally I'm really glad I found this forum - can't beat a bit of healthy cynicism!

Cheers
Ian

Wowbagger

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #1 on: 27 December, 2011, 03:00:02 pm »
Well, you are lots faster than I am. I've over 5000 miles to my name this year, but also am weighing in at 18 stone and 57 years.

I'm a great fan of Brooks saddles. There are some perverts on this forum who decry such things, but they are entitled to their opinions, poor dears.

I'd keep at your relaxed pace of 11 to 12 mph and avoid the headaches. If best bitter counts as an electrolyte drink then yes, they are marvellous, but I've never drunk one out of a bidon.

Lastly, if you are from the Bolton area I reckon your rides will generally be a fair bit hillier than my normal fare (Essex).

Edit: two or three years ago I was a sylph at 16 stone and I managed one ride with an average speed in excess of 16 mph.
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #2 on: 27 December, 2011, 04:10:48 pm »
I restarted in the summer on a borrowed bike before acquiring Geraldine the lovely Pilen and then eventually a slightly used but utterly fabulous Claud Butler hybrid who doesn't have a name yet.

I also started off on little pootles around 5/6 miles (in my case to the stables or back again-I was fortunate enough to have a vehicle I could take back that didn't involve pedalling) and worked my way up.  I've now done a couple of rides over 40 miles, but they were long, slow all-day jobbies that most of the forum consider "easy"  ;) 

I'm still ecstatic that I'm managing that much-though my riding has dropped off due to time constraints more recently-plus a fright after I fell off and had a visitation that ended up a little more awkward than expected in the same week!  I'm not really focussing on speed, for me it's the distance that helps-and the fact that I'm just plain out doing something!

I find that three things tend to give me a headache: dehydration, becoming overtired and wearing a helmet or too tight a buff.  The overtired thing for me is related to a chronic fatigue condition that I'm getting over, which means I have to be more careful than you might expect.  I've taken to keeping some Lucozade energy drinks in a pannier when I go out for anything more than a pootle round the block, just in case.  They contain the glucose and also caffeine, so they'll get me home even when I've gone pretty much splat.  Also nuts are great for a bit of a pick-me-up, but not salted unless you're rehydrating well!

Saddle-wise, have you considered padded shorts?  I swear by them and won't do a longer ride without them!  They can go under normal clothes just as well as wearing them on their own.  Other than that, which saddle suits you is pretty much down to individual choice!  I'm getting used to my Brooks and actually prefer it to the odd padded thing that came with the Claude, but it's very much horses for courses!

One thing I will say is that a friend of mine gets headaches when she overexerts due to high blood pressure.



Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #3 on: 27 December, 2011, 04:16:05 pm »
Bartonflyer, I'd say you were doing fine but I think I'd go to the doc.'s for a check-up anyway after such a long time.  Probably nothing wrong at all but it can't do any harm to find out.

Good luck!

inc

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #4 on: 27 December, 2011, 04:29:57 pm »
Age itself is not a problem but have you been doing any other sort of exercise for the intervening 40 years. I would think the tiredness you feel after an hour or so is just as likely to be general muscle fatigue, your muscles are being asked to do something they have not done for some time and it will take time for them to adapt. The water is essential but if you feel you need more energy then electrolyte drinks  may help, it is something you just need to try, personally I don't think the chocolate is such a good idea. Headaches can be a sign of dehydration are you drinking enough water. Saddles are a very personal thing, the softer gel sort are generally good for shorter distances but as you have found less so as the riding time increases as they don't support you properly,  see if you can borrow some other saddles  to try. When you say get a bike built I assume you mean assembled from components. There is a big advantage with this method as you can have the the bike set up for you with the correct position through choice of bars,stem etc and have the wheels and tyres you want. I would say you are doing everything just right with a nice gentle build up, for a bit of variety you maybe could try shorter distances a bit faster and the longer rides a bit slower. If you are doing 20 miles now then your target 50 mile ride next year should be well within your ability, good luck.

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #5 on: 27 December, 2011, 06:37:10 pm »
Many thanks for the advice - much appreciated

I agree with the dehydration comments, I'm very bad at keeping myself hydrated anyway (though like Wowbagger I might rely on best bitter too much) - and yes I reckon the Bolton area where I ride is probably a tad hillier than Essex - I did make it to the top of Winter Hill a fortnight ago - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Hill_%28North_West_England%29 but had to get off & push for about 40 yards.
On going to the docs, good advice, but as my other hobby is flying I have to have a full medical once a year to keep my licence so I know that my blood pressure is OK and most other bits are functioning
I think that equipment wise I will try another saddle (I did get some padded shorts and suffered the inevitable ribald comments from the family) - the LBS recommended a San Marco Rolls (when discussing the dream bike) so I might try that on the Giant & see how it feels - or just bite the bullet and get a Brooks :thumbsup:
Thanks again for the encouragement

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #6 on: 01 January, 2012, 01:15:12 pm »
Well, I'm also 60, and although I haven't ever stopped riding, I have done less over the last few years and so I'm struggling to get to where I want to be.

I do know and mix with a lot of older riders, many of whom have been highly succesful riders in the past. What I learn from them is:

- You get fitter when you rest, not when you ride. As a youngster it was the "rule" to rest an hour after riding an hour. Most older riders say this is now doubled or tripled

- If it took you a year to get back to where you wanted to be after a break as a younger person, it will take you 2 or 3 as an older person

- Don't try to jump straight in and do what you used to. I find little and often on the bike for several months is needed now; say 1.5 to 2hr rides on two out of every three days, resting on day 3.

- getting totally wasted on a ride sets you back

- low gears (compacts) are NOT for whimps

- saddle-wise - listen to everyone's advice - and then ignore it. Saddles are very personal - find one that suits and stick to it. I found Fizik Aliante saddles after years of discomfort, but they might be torture for you.

I know loads of 60, 70 and even 80 year olds who are fit enough for a 100 mile+ fast group ride, or continental sportif; but it takes time to get that point, and a very regular riding regime.

The most important thing, in  my view, is that it's just a hobby. If you're enjoying what you do, whatever it is, then that's what it's about. Don't get intimidated by the "I've just completed my 9th 200km Audax in 15 days" type reports, firstly we're not all the same, and secondly some cyclists are as good as the proverbial fisherman at "positive spin". Just enjoy it!

Biggsy

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #7 on: 01 January, 2012, 01:57:33 pm »
After about 15 miles I start to feel pretty tired - so far I've just been carrying a bottle of water and a bar of chocolate - but all that does is give me indigestion - If I try & push my pace up a bit or it's pretty hilly then I seem to often end up with a blinding headache - so first question is - do other (older) folk find these electrolyte energy drinks help with that?

(I am younger than you, but past my physical peak).

Electrolyte drinks, or water with a little squash and pinch of salt, does hydrate better than plain water, and hydration helps to prevent headaches and other problems.  Try a snack with less fat, eg. a good cereal bar or a piece cake.  Ordinary cake isn't very high in fat, and remember that icing is just sugar, if you like icing.

Quote
My bike is a Giant CRS 3.0 hybrid with a gel saddle - seems fine for around an hour but then just seems to become uncomfortable - any observation on gel saddles would be welcome

Saddles are the most personal factor of cycling.  Gel saddles work for some cyclists, but not for others, including me.  As well as Brooks leather ones, try saddles with foam rather than gel padding.  Foam can be dense and stiff enough to provide a reasonable amount of support.  Avoid extremely soft saddles that you just sink into.  Try as many different saddles as you have patience for, and experiment with the position of each one.  Sell your unwanted saddles via adverts on this forum.

Regarding a custom made frame: there is only a big advantage in getting one if you have an unusual body shape, eg. particularly short back and long limbs, or vice versa.  However, it is always worthwhile to have a custom selection of components (rather than a ready-assembled complete bike), including handlebars, handlebar stem, gears, pedals, as well as the saddle.  Also get decent cycling shoes with fairly stiff soles, whether using toe clips or clipless pedals.

For the actual cycling, my tip is dead simple.  Cycle when you like, where you like, for as far as you like, how ever you like - except for most of the while, cycle SLIGHTLY harder than is very easy and comfortable.  Only slightly.  This will gradually improve your strength, fitness and endurance.  Don't be ashamed to avoid bad weather if you don't enjoy rain and gloom.  Cycling is supposed to be pleasurable (when you're not a professional racer).

Wishing you a pleasurable 2012, Ian.
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #8 on: 02 January, 2012, 09:17:11 am »
Thanks to everyone for the sound, sensible advice - here's to pleasurable cycling in 2012 - that's certainly my aim  :)

Jacomus

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #9 on: 09 January, 2012, 09:35:34 am »
I am a fan of the 'incremental advance' school of thought that Biggsy refers to - frequently pushing yourself slightly out of your comfort zone is a great way to minimise the risks of injury, but also really gain in fitness and strength. If you don't have something particular you are training for, or perhaps I should say a particular deadline, I would recommend this as being the best way to go.

As to a custom bicycle, I would ask myself 'why not?'  ;D
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LEE

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #10 on: 09 January, 2012, 09:52:40 am »
Forget chocolate, in fact you shouldn't really need to eat during a 20 mile ride if you eat an hour before you set off, but chocolate will just give you a quick high followed by a quick low.  Try a couple of bananas an hour before you leave, with a drink of water.

It's most likely hydration though.  Thirst can masquerade as hunger  Try NUUN tablets in your water or (cheaper) ZERO - HIGH 5. 

Don't go out for a ride before sipping a pint of water 30 mins before the ride, maybe you are starting your ride dehydrated, once you are dehydrated it can certainly cause the effects you mention, and keep sipping all through the ride. 

Never wait until you are thirsty, because it's too late then.

Bananas and water....can't go wrong.

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #11 on: 09 January, 2012, 11:06:12 am »

- You get fitter when you rest, not when you ride. As a youngster it was the "rule" to rest an hour after riding an hour. Most older riders say this is now doubled or tripled


Yup. I'm rapidly approaching 59, and have good evidence of the importance of recovery.

Over the years I have noticed riders who've returned to or started cycling in later middle age seem to fly for a couple of seasons before fading back to normal pace. I can think of couple of possible reasons for this.

Biggsy

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #12 on: 09 January, 2012, 11:20:37 am »
I didn't take my own advice yesterday evening.  First ride of the year back on what-I-call my racing bike.  I had intended to go for a local potter at a pottery pace.  Actually, it was so exciting that I pedalled so hard and fast that I had to stop a few times purely to let my heart rate fall to a safe level.

This doesn't happen when you set off with a longer ride in mind, then obviously, you pace yourself sensibly.  So, local recreational/fitness spins on a fast bike can be unpredictable or even dangerous ...though fun!
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #13 on: 09 January, 2012, 11:39:01 am »
40 seconds can be enough to put you in danger of cardiac arrest.

Biggsy

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #14 on: 09 January, 2012, 12:21:57 pm »
Up until recently, I've just assumed that my heart is good and will take anything that I make it do.  I was thinking I'd just grey or black out before it got to a dangerous state.  Would a heart rate monitor be worth getting for those of us who are past our physical prime but sometimes forget that we are!?
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #15 on: 09 January, 2012, 08:08:46 pm »
Over the years I have noticed riders who've returned to or started cycling in later middle age seem to fly for a couple of seasons before fading back to normal pace. I can think of couple of possible reasons for this.
...and those reasons are?
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #16 on: 09 January, 2012, 11:28:42 pm »
Over the years I have noticed riders who've returned to or started cycling in later middle age seem to fly for a couple of seasons before fading back to normal pace. I can think of couple of possible reasons for this.
...and those reasons are?

Um...(trying to think back to a hasty post)...a sudden burst of enthusiasm coupled with retirement and plenty of time to ride. Now what was the other?

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #17 on: 30 January, 2012, 08:41:35 am »
Up until recently, I've just assumed that my heart is good and will take anything that I make it do.  I was thinking I'd just grey or black out before it got to a dangerous state.  Would a heart rate monitor be worth getting for those of us who are past our physical prime but sometimes forget that we are!?

I'm 60 and have been cycling most of my life, I had major problems with angina a few years ago, blocked arteries, and have a chest full of stents. In my case I got plenty of warning that something had gone wrong, I got chest pain if I pushed myself on a climb, or tried to sprint, anything I did that pushed the heart rate up towards max, I ran for a bus one day and needed ten minutes to recover, I've had no problems since I had the stents fitted and I'm cycling at about 90-95% of what I could do before the angina. The thing is you are likely to get warning signs that something is wrong, just don't dismiss them as unimportant or ignore them, but there is always a danger that you wont get any warning, the lights will just go out permanently. I'm not sure that a heart monitor would show up a problem.

Redlight

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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #18 on: 16 February, 2012, 10:59:03 pm »
I think  one of the joys of cycling is that it is an easy "sport" in which to start gently and build up.  I cycled, as a means of getting around and for the fun of it*, throughout my teens and early 20s, then stopped after a (non-cycling) hit and run road accident that left me in need of about a year of physiotherapy and back pain that persists almost 30 years later.  After about 10 years off the bike, I bought a new one and the first ride, of just under two miles, left me wondering what I had done.  I increased the mileage gently and within 18 months was riding imperial centuries and have subsequently gone on to ride silly length Audax events.

It sounds as though you are taking exactly the right approach, which is to get out and ride the bike just for the fun of doing it and treat the inevitable improvement in strength, speed and fitness as added bonuses.


* I saw that you had been up Winter Hill. I grew up in Ormskirk and at age 14 rode from there to the top of Winter Hill because I'd seen it from the top of Parbold Hill and it didn't look that far away.  (I didn't have a map) I got into so much trouble that night!  :demon:
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Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #19 on: 06 May, 2012, 11:51:56 pm »
I support most of what's been said here and just want to add that there's a handful of 'mature' guys in my cycling club who can give the youngsters a run for their money.

For example, there's one guy in his mid 70's who's done the toughest sportive in Ireland (the Wicklow 200km) every year for the past 11 or 12 years, there's another guy in his mid 60's who comes out on the Sunday spins and manages 80km with the group on a singlespeed.

Now they've both been cycling all their lives, but there's no reason why you can't get much fitter. Just take it slowly and build up the mileage & speed slowly or you'll do yourself an injury.

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #20 on: 08 May, 2012, 02:48:13 pm »
.....but there's no reason why you can't get much fitter. Just take it slowly and build up the mileage & speed slowly or you'll do yourself an injury.

Thanks to all who've posted on this thread it's been a great encouragement.

I feel I've definitely progressed - am comfortably riding 40 miles now, so my aim of a 50 mile day is well in sight - and (more to the point of this forum) I now own 2 bikes and a YACF jersey  :)

Still haven't managed to get up Winter Hill without having to walk up one bit - but now it's not my legs I'm just running out of "puff"!!

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #21 on: 09 May, 2012, 09:26:24 am »
Excellent progress sir!

I only wish that I could make some similar progress, but I am sure that the "little and often" process is the one that works best in the long term. I know a few previously star riders who have come back, and they all reckon that it takes at least 2 years to get back to where they would have been if they had kept going.

LEE

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #22 on: 22 June, 2012, 11:46:26 pm »
.....but there's no reason why you can't get much fitter. Just take it slowly and build up the mileage & speed slowly or you'll do yourself an injury.

Thanks to all who've posted on this thread it's been a great encouragement.

I feel I've definitely progressed - am comfortably riding 40 miles now, so my aim of a 50 mile day is well in sight - and (more to the point of this forum) I now own 2 bikes and a YACF jersey  :)

Still haven't managed to get up Winter Hill without having to walk up one bit - but now it's not my legs I'm just running out of "puff"!!

See this Manchester to Blackpool

That was my first EVER "Long Distance" ride, in the early '80s.  I rode to and from start (from Stockport) which made it about 70 miles.  My legs were stiff as planks for a few days afterwards but it was great fun with lots of company.

If you can comfortably do 40 miles then you'll have no problem doing 52 in company.

Then you can set your sights on 100 miles.  100 miles in a day sets you apart.  Even if you do it only once, you'll be able to say you did it forever (and it's really not that hard if you just keep plodding/drinking/eating).

Good to see your progression.  You've done that hard part (getting from just a few miles to 40), the next improvements tend to come in bigger chunks.  After all, 2 x 40 comfortable miles is 80...you're nearly there.

(In reality those last 20 miles of your first 100 feel like a lot more).

Re: What improvement can an old codger reasonably expect?
« Reply #23 on: 05 July, 2012, 08:40:29 am »
RE using a Heart rate monitor.   :thumbsup:

Earlier in the thread HRM monitors were suggested. I have no doubt they are a tremendous aid to training especially in the early stages of getting fit. The trick is to do your rides trying to maintain a heart rate of 70% percent or less of your max heart rate. You should find this is quite an easy  work rate. Whilst your doing this you will find, over time your speed gradually goes up without unduly stressing your body. If you use this approach, give it at least a couple of months and its once you stop seeing any improvements that you can move onto something harder if you want to. There is lots written about this approach in running literature.

The only tough part of this approach is finding your max heart rate, which can be brutal and needs a healthy cardio system to be a sensible thing to do. You could use 220 minus your age but it won't be accurate.

eg. estimate for 60year old rider.
Assume max hr of 160 (which could be way out)
70% percent equals heart rate of 112bpm
(keep an eye on the monitor if you have big struggle on a hill etc. It might give a indication of your true max, (beware of interference if you see 220bpm its probably a railway line etc.)

Regarding Saddles, the more sit up and beg the bike the wider the seat required. If you get an Audax/sportive/race bike the rolls mention is likely to be a good experiment.