Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250256 times)

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #375 on: 24 December, 2016, 06:43:36 pm »
Looks like it's going to be 3 weeks of nothing instead of loads of miles this holiday as I recover from broken ribs  >:(

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #376 on: 24 December, 2016, 07:00:59 pm »
Training properly to resume on 27th. CTL has dropped to 58 but am doing a bit of running to minimise the loss while away.

This time last year CTL was 31 so things are better than last year. I can't remember why but I didn't train much in the second half of January so my CTL was down to 28 then. Aiming to be well ahead of there.

Re: Base training
« Reply #377 on: 24 December, 2016, 07:36:47 pm »
I think I grok both sides of this. If I had never ridden a real bike - lets say I was a gym bunny who got really into using an exercise bike - then I would follow the science/numbers approach and probably get a lot out of that. (and I do 'leverage' a bit of science-n-numbers in my riding)

But having enjoyed "real" cycling - since a wee bairn - I can safely say I get way more out of it than I ever would in the gym.

If some sort of poor health or injury ever gets me off the roads/trails, I reserve the right to become a Zwift evangelist!

Just to say, I'm not a side of this. For me Zwift / turbo is ace for training. Real cycling, it isn't. You wouldn't go for a bimble around Watopia, no matter how fancy your graphics card. Before I got knocked off, I hadn't touched the turbo since spring. However, my head is pretty messed from my RTA up at the mo', and I can't face playing with traffic. Combine that with Yorkshire weather, and I'm not cycling at the mo - I'm just training.

Re: Base training
« Reply #378 on: 26 December, 2016, 09:40:18 pm »
Well i should have done 8x10 at TT pace but it did not happen today.  mental reaction to a Great christmas after a lot of worry about family arguments, etc lead to a complete shut down of systems today.  Normal service will resume tomorrow.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #379 on: 26 December, 2016, 10:49:51 pm »
did 6 × 7min intervals on tt bike outside, lovely sunshine today. legs still feel shortage of blood after donation last week.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #380 on: 28 December, 2016, 02:42:01 pm »
Back to it yesterday with 3x12 sweet spot and today 3x20 sweet spot (lower - 85% FTP). It was harder work than the same workout two weeks ago after a week's break. I've gone back one week in the programme to allow for the break.

Goal is 300W FTP by summer.

Re: Base training
« Reply #381 on: 28 December, 2016, 06:20:42 pm »
What do people do about weight training.

I am not talking about massive deadlifts, etc but rather some targeted training.  In past years I have done single leg squats and lunges with a 20kg weight vest.  I have done these instead of a bike session when I was training myself (and you know what an idiot trainer he was).

I would still like to do some sessions as I think they are helpful.  My coach suggested perhaps doing them on a rest day but I think he was mixing them up with a Pilates session(stretching and core) I do on a rest day.

I wondered about adding them in as an extra session just before a rest day.

Any thoughts?

Thank you

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #382 on: 28 December, 2016, 06:44:00 pm »
Topical for me as I'm trying to add in some weight training. Especially for us older cyclists (40+) it has health benefits to avoiding or at least slowing the age related decline in muscle mass.

My plan is to keep weight training on non rest days for the simple reason that I believe in the view that rest days should be rest days. In order to keep it manageable I'll be doing a three day split which I've worked with before i.e. push, pull, legs/shoulders, and abs/core which can be done on any of the three days. Though the legs day includes shoulder which is a mixture of push and pull.

I'm currently following a 6 days per week cycling plan which has a full rest day on Monday and the easiest non-rest day is Friday. So I could choose to aim to make Friday the legs day then the other days which are not touching legs on harder days.

There is the case often put that you shouldn't do weights and cardio on the same day. However I was googling earlier and found this. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-tips/should-you-do-weight-training-cardio-same-day - title of the paper is "Concurrent resistance and aerobic exercise stimulates both myofibrillar and mitochondrial protein synthesis in sedentary middle-aged men."

As for what exercises - main legs will be squat, main pulling exercise is deadlift and main pushing bench press. I have noticed a benefit in terms of explosive power from doing this in the past. Downside is increased weight. However low normal BMI is not lowest risk group in older people so it might be a good thing.

Next gym visit will be Friday for legs/shoulders/core day.

Re: Base training
« Reply #383 on: 28 December, 2016, 07:42:11 pm »
thanks Simon

That is a great help.  I will point my coach to this.

Chris

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #384 on: 29 December, 2016, 02:26:12 am »

Re: Base training
« Reply #385 on: 31 December, 2016, 12:12:26 pm »
good weights session yesterday morning. squats, lunges and some Pilates exercises.  I know it was good as this morning my gluten are really sore.  Also inner thigh muscles as well.  I think this is from doing the single leg squats and sliding lunges which need a larger balance element than double leg squats.

Then developed headache, and runny nose which put paid to the turbo session in the afternoon.  Walk to Breakfast and back for 2 hours gives me a total TSS of 2006 for the month which is my highest ever.

Happy and healthy New Year to you all and look forward to meeting some of you on rides in 2017.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #386 on: 31 December, 2016, 01:04:09 pm »
three rides this week to complete the festive500 challenge and a short run totaling in 622 tss. now - how to carry this momentum into the new year?! :)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #387 on: 31 December, 2016, 01:56:33 pm »
Just back from a rowing water session, legs could feel the last few days.

Going to try to do a TR session later but the app auto updated last night and seems to have lost the sweet spot and traditional base plans. The top level menu is there but all the fields say "infinity" and diving in to select a workout => crash.

Ah the joy of auto update being turned on.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #388 on: 31 December, 2016, 02:12:16 pm »
In and out of thinking I've been coming down with the family bug this week.   Shuffled turbo sessions around a bit.   4hrs on the road this morning but couldn't get my HR where I wanted it to be.   Still I covered slightly more distance than I did on the same ride 3 weeks ago and the legs can feel it.

I finish the year with my weight where it needs to be and seem to be making gains.   Day off tomorrow and back on it from Monday.   Hopefully all the TT dates will be published soon and I can write a proper plan out.

Happy New Year.


Rob


simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #389 on: 31 December, 2016, 02:24:14 pm »
Got TR working again by deleting and reinstalling the app which resynced everything cleanly.

The new version has the biggest missing feature I've wanted which is tracking progress through a training plan. It always seemed like an odd omission.

I'm part way into the plan already but according to the documentation you can assign rides you've already completed to your progress.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #390 on: 03 January, 2017, 03:44:07 pm »
Because of Zwift fail yesterday TSS is off target. So I found a nasty 90m workout to do at lunch time. Glacier - 5x2m, 5x1m, 5x30s. These were at respectively 130, 150 and 180% FTP.

I think the easiest to finish were the final set. Pretty brutal overall.

Re: Base training
« Reply #391 on: 03 January, 2017, 05:33:12 pm »
Got TR working again by deleting and reinstalling the app which resynced everything cleanly.

The new version has the biggest missing feature I've wanted which is tracking progress through a training plan. It always seemed like an odd omission.

Nice one Simon, app updated & I can finally see the plan progress & next workout :)

Strangely I emailed them in November asking when we might get this feature & they didn't tell me it was almost there despite a very helpful reply

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #392 on: 03 January, 2017, 10:31:03 pm »
Can't get these bollocking Tuesday intervals right.   Only seem to complete them properly every other week.   Clearly pushing the edge of what I'm capable of at the moment.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #393 on: 04 January, 2017, 06:59:38 am »
Can't get these bollocking Tuesday intervals right.   Only seem to complete them properly every other week.   Clearly pushing the edge of what I'm capable of at the moment.

Without knowing what the actual problem is, maybe increasing the recovery time between intervals? Either that or reduce the intensity a bit is what I do when I can't hit the numbers.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #394 on: 04 January, 2017, 08:42:45 am »
Can't get these bollocking Tuesday intervals right.   Only seem to complete them properly every other week.   Clearly pushing the edge of what I'm capable of at the moment.

Without knowing what the actual problem is, maybe increasing the recovery time between intervals? Either that or reduce the intensity a bit is what I do when I can't hit the numbers.

Since starting the length of the intervals has increased and the recovery decreased to the point where I can take a deep breath, have a swig of drink and straight back on it.   Last week I hit it bang on so I know it's do-able, but I backed off part way through the 4th rep last night.   I've had trouble getting the pacing right but thought I had cracked it after last week, but I think I'm not quite 100% at the moment.   I'll start a little slower next week and see how it goes.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #395 on: 04 January, 2017, 09:05:13 am »
Surely if your recovery period is too short then they cease to be intervals! Longer recovery periods mean harder intervals are possible, didn't OBree do something like 5' effort 30' rests?

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #396 on: 04 January, 2017, 01:33:23 pm »
Surely if your recovery period is too short then they cease to be intervals! Longer recovery periods mean harder intervals are possible, didn't OBree do something like 5' effort 30' rests?

Yeah.   This session has gradually got harder week-on-week to the point where it's (roughly) 50mins of hard work with 4 mini breaks interspersed.   I'd already told my coach I was struggling with the session and there's only 1 more planned in this build phase.   I've asked if I should do it easier or can I extend the rest periods back up.

Looking forward to next week as it's an easier week and I'm off to ride an audax on the Saturday.

Pedal Castro

  • so talented I can run with scissors - ouch!
    • Two beers or not two beers...
Re: Base training
« Reply #397 on: 04 January, 2017, 06:33:34 pm »
First big effort since breaking my rib, quite pleased with that. https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/4822287-ak-billat-5x3

Re: Base training
« Reply #398 on: 04 January, 2017, 06:44:00 pm »
very nice

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #399 on: 04 January, 2017, 10:12:45 pm »
Tonight's 2x30m required a couple of short breaks in the second interval.

Yesterday's extra-hard workout probably to blame. I was only slightly off target overall so no disaster.

3x12m threshold tomorrow. Unless they pull my wisdom tooth that's been bothering me tomorrow, in which case I might need to avoid exercise for a day or two.