Author Topic: Base training  (Read 250326 times)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #800 on: 04 January, 2018, 03:42:47 pm »
Here's one that will work on Zwift. Use a basic turbo trainer with virtual power, and fit two magnets to your rear wheel.

Re: Base training
« Reply #801 on: 16 January, 2018, 09:11:03 am »
I got new cleats anyway. First ride this year, first ride on new pedals, first post-flu ride. I just did a 30 minute version of Carson, and it was very doable.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/9638807-carson-5
I wonder whether the power reported by the pedals is a bit higher than that reported by the back wheel - I couldn't do 75W at a sensible cadence (even in my lowest possible gear), and 175W was not especially hard work. What I did notice was that my power dropped when I was pulling upwards on the pedals, even when maintaining the same cadence and resistance - that felt weird.
I'll do a 45 minute one on Thursday, and then do a new FTP test on the weekend...

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: Base training
« Reply #802 on: 16 January, 2018, 09:16:14 am »
If you haven't done a new FTP test on your pedals then I suspect you are seeing the difference between what lost through the drive train to the rear wheel (i.e. you pedals will be a higher power reading)... by how much though?  Accuracy between measuring devices is a moot point for me, as it's all relative to a measured point in time (FTP value), its consistency that's important, so there will be a difference between your new pedals and the old power meter you had... key thing is to get the FTP on the new setup, anything else is just guessing I expect :)


ETA: Or get a session with both attached to the bike and see what if any the offset is and then derive the different FTP from that as an interim.
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #803 on: 16 January, 2018, 09:24:17 am »
As well as the drivetrain, there's also the issue of the tyre on the drum (it's a cheapo wheel-on trainer). Guessing isn't a problem for me right now as I finished my previous plan before Christmas, and I'll be starting a new one next week with a new FTP test. I guess I could hook the pedals to my headunit and my speed/cadence sensor to Trainer Road for "Virtual Power", and then compare the output at the end, but I'm not sure there's any benefit in working out the delta.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #804 on: 16 January, 2018, 11:16:00 pm »
Mills... 100% for first 3 reps then 102% for the remaining 6. ow.

Chris S

Re: Base training
« Reply #805 on: 18 January, 2018, 06:52:46 pm »
Ebbetts. A singularly unpleasant experience. Needed a couple of oxygen stops in the second interval, backed it off to 90% for the third interval, but couldn't keep going at all for the fourth.

I'm behind on sleep, and my RHR is up; underlying stress is never helpful.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #806 on: 18 January, 2018, 07:34:38 pm »
Sounds like what you need is more rest.

I’m about to hit Jepson. I’m not sure I’ll make it to the end of this block without needing an extra rest week. Just about hanging in.

Re: Base training
« Reply #807 on: 18 January, 2018, 09:26:12 pm »
First FTP test on a Watt bike at the gym.  223W @ 69 kg.  I've not done much riding recently, so I'm hoping that with some training I can get this up over 250W (and lose 2 or 3 kg of fat) by Easter whilst also increasing my distance (hoping for a 300 in March).

Things haven't gotten off to a great start - been ill with a heavy cold for past week so no training.  Do any of you have any advice about what to do when I restart - should I count this as my recovery week and begin another 4 week block or do I do one more week of training and then recover as per original plan (that will mean 2 weeks off in 4)?

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #808 on: 18 January, 2018, 11:39:46 pm »
First FTP test on a Watt bike at the gym.  223W @ 69 kg.  I've not done much riding recently, so I'm hoping that with some training I can get this up over 250W (and lose 2 or 3 kg of fat) by Easter whilst also increasing my distance (hoping for a 300 in March).

Things haven't gotten off to a great start - been ill with a heavy cold for past week so no training.  Do any of you have any advice about what to do when I restart - should I count this as my recovery week and begin another 4 week block or do I do one more week of training and then recover as per original plan (that will mean 2 weeks off in 4)?

General advice here: http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-adjust-my-training-plan-following-time-off/

I had longer off due to a cough lasting for weeks after my last cold. I did some easy stuff to ease back in, then some intensity stuff to kick start things a bit, then went into Sweet Spot Base Mid Volume I from the start.

You will have lost some fitness but in a week it's not a huge loss.

Re: Base training
« Reply #809 on: 19 January, 2018, 12:08:45 pm »
After my flu, I did 1 30 minute "ease in" ride, and then I figured I'd do an FTP test and see how it goes. I set it to 205 because I figured the pedals are reading higher than the back wheel, and I was 190 before.
I get to 15 minutes, and I realise that I'd been following the chart to get an FTP of 205, but I'd been spinning at 95 rpm, and I'm always faster around 85-90, so I changed up and did 5 minutes at a higher power.  Gave me an FTP of 207, but I think if I'd gone for it from the start I could have done 212. I think I'll do another FTP test on Tuesday.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/9877346-20-minute-ftp-test
I coughed a fair amount afterwards, but not during the ride. :)

Re: Base training
« Reply #810 on: 19 January, 2018, 05:33:48 pm »
Thanks, that advice is useful.  I've continued to do my short commute (at a very gentle pace), mainly because of the hassle of getting to work any other way.  I've been feeling better generally the last couple of days but do have an occasional lingering cough, but I've been able to push on a bit today on the ride home without any ill effects.  I think I'll try 2x20 tempo on Sunday rather than a long ride and then get back to it properly next week if all goes well.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #811 on: 21 January, 2018, 11:27:11 pm »
Did rowing on the water in the morning so did 1h instead of 1h30 last night, and picked Prater.  This workout has found me out in the past when I've set my FTP a bit too high. Not this time.

Then tonight did the planned workout, Juneau - 1. This was also on target and was the highest 2h power I've achieved in more than 18 months.  :thumbsup:

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #812 on: 22 January, 2018, 12:23:43 pm »
Well I’m feeling that the day. Three flights of stairs at work were plenty.  :hand:

Re: Base training
« Reply #813 on: 23 January, 2018, 09:31:32 am »
That's more like what an FTP test should feel like! :)
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/10269695-20-minute-ftp-test
222W FTP.  :thumbsup:
I gained 15 watts by just pacing it better. I worked so much harder, and my lungs are still feeling it now (2 hours on). As with all these things, I didn't blow up, so I feel like I could have gone a tiny bit harder, but realistically probably only a watt or 2. Just to show how hard it was (and how the pedals measure different to Virtual Power), I set power records at 1,2,5,10,20, and 30 minutes!
Sets me up nicely for Sustained Power Build.

Re: Base training
« Reply #814 on: 25 January, 2018, 10:13:39 am »
I did Carpathian Peak today, and I found it really hard to ride at the prescribed power on the up and down slopes. It was much easier to be smooth with Virtual Power than it is with the P1s. I have smoothing set to 2 seconds - should I set it at 3 (or even 5)?:
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/10477043-carpathian-peak
I also needed to finish early, so I cut down the second period of rest - I didn't feel like the whole rest period was necessary.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #815 on: 25 January, 2018, 10:51:34 am »
How do you cut down a period in TrainerRoad, out of interest?

P1s are likely to give a much noisier signal than you will get from virtual power so adding some smoothing may help. Virtual power is based on speed, and small scale variations in power are probably artificially smoothed by this.



Re: Base training
« Reply #816 on: 25 January, 2018, 12:47:35 pm »
I didn't do it officially (ideally I would have fast-forwarded it but you can't do it in the app - I asked Support in the summer). I have no doubt that you could do it through the workout creator (might do it next Thursday), but today I just knew that the set was intervals of 1 minute at 210W, and then ramping up to 232W and back over 2 minutes. I figured I could do 1 minute at ~240W and 1 minute at ~210W and start the set 4 minutes early, then I could get approx the same workload and cut it short at the end. You can see this in the workout graph.
I guess the flywheel effect of the turbo and the rear wheel smooth the speed changes in Virtual Power. The P1s are really cool though - it's neat to be able to see the actual power (and on my headunit to be able to see right and left split).

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: Base training
« Reply #817 on: 28 January, 2018, 06:26:29 pm »
Looks like TR is trialling a replacement for 8/20min FTP tests based on a 1 min ramp.  They are encouraging testers through their FB TR beta page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/147776349143575/permalink/150467508874459/

Ramp Test X is the name of the workout on TR.. I might give it a go later in the week...
Regards,

Joergen

Re: Base training
« Reply #818 on: 29 January, 2018, 09:09:26 am »
That looks like it would be good with a smart trainer, but quite hard to do using gears. I quite like the 20 minute test (I'm not sure what that says about me!).

I did Mount Goode yesterday - was OK though my ITB was a bit tight, so I stopped after the first interval to stretch.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/10809108-mount-goode

It's kinda nice just holding the watts for 15 minutes... :)

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #819 on: 29 January, 2018, 10:47:37 am »
Ramp tests to failure are tough at the end.


Re: Base training
« Reply #820 on: 30 January, 2018, 09:21:31 am »
Cold in the garage this morning. 3x7 1 minute intervals at VO2 max was surprisingly doable. Though looking at the power zones, it seems I spent far more time anaerobic than VO2 max.
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/10991005-bashful-1

Ramp tests can be brutal if you have the mental fortitude to hurt yourself...

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #821 on: 30 January, 2018, 10:55:24 am »
I've done them 3 or 4 times with a gas exchange mask on.

Not fun, not fun at all.

Re: Base training
« Reply #822 on: 01 February, 2018, 10:26:46 am »
Fang Mountain today (-1 because of time pressure - same intervals but with less rest).
I'm really bad at these ramp things.  I'm guessing they are great with an erg trainer, but with a basic mag turbo trainer and gears they are really hard (even with power smoothing set to 3 seconds). Look at how much noise there is on this chart!
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/11198550-fang-mountain-1

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #823 on: 01 February, 2018, 11:14:36 am »
That looks like a good effort. Have you looked at some of the other attempts e.g.

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/10421795-fang-mountain-1

Re: Base training
« Reply #824 on: 01 February, 2018, 12:50:42 pm »
Good point - others with non erg trainers put up similarly noisy numbers.
I was also wondering if it actually made things a little easier - the fluctuations result in micro breaks of a second or 2 that might help recovery and reduce the impact of the workout. Either that or my legs were just really good this morning. If my workouts continue to be "surprisingly doable" then maybe I need to up the intensity a few percent (I did 102% for the second set, and 101% for the 3rd and 4th).