Author Topic: Costs  (Read 15784 times)

Re: Costs
« Reply #25 on: 22 October, 2017, 01:50:19 pm »
I find 'Fantasy Audax' good value. I can print my own Brevet cards for a trip to the shops, and use receipts as proof of passage. I had one of those John Bull printing sets as a child, so it's a return to more innocent times.

There's always going to be a cheaper way of cycling, but few offer the discipline off a 6am start, and a full day awheel.

The bigger the fee, the bigger the prod to the indolent to leave their beds.  I should be able to rouse myself to ride to Carlisle and back, starting at 6am, but I know I'm weak-willed enough to need a structure. I don't even have the excuse of having to travel to find decent riding.

Re: Costs
« Reply #26 on: 22 October, 2017, 02:05:59 pm »
Hi Folks,

Back in the day audax events were cheap as chips. It now appears they are becoming quite pricey. Anyone else noticed this phenomena?!

Doo

All my perms are free.

Re: Costs
« Reply #27 on: 22 October, 2017, 02:07:46 pm »
Depending where you live, the overall cost of an audax will vary.  For example, living in or near Tewksbury will result in ample opportunities for riding events at very little cost, relatively. For other areas then costs, that may be significant, can arise by way of travel and/or accommodation. Doo appears to be based in Warwickshire and any involvement in audax will involve travel and possibly accommodation costs that l suspect will be well in excess of any entry fee.

I recall our parish council increasing the precept (part of the council tax that goes directly to parish council) and explaining it by being equivalent to less than a standard coffee at Costa, or a pint in the pub, for the most expensive grade of property. If audax entry fees are considered in this context, then I think they are good value for money and forgoing the odd coffee/pint or two in order to finance them is worth it IMO.

I like events that start in the evening as that means no accommodation costs and reduces overall costs, such as Plains 300 starting at 2300.  I still have to complete a 130 mile round trip to take part in that event and purchase sustenance as PoP and to fuel me, but the lack of accommodation cost associated with an early start makes it more affordable.

Perhaps we should, as a community be looking at how we could support the needs of others in terms of shared lifts to events and/or accommodation, be it dossing down in someone's home or in a Travelodge etc.  Audax can become a solitary experience if you end-up riding by yourself and no need to expand that to the whole experience when we could be offering support.

Re: Costs
« Reply #28 on: 22 October, 2017, 02:20:42 pm »
"AUdax prices cannot be reduced without them becoming "saturday club rides", where people meet outside the local pub. "

Nothing wrong with that and apart from the 'pub' it is how all of our rides are conducted but usually outside a convenient store.

But the thing that strikes me about most of the comments on this tread is the mean spirited snarkiness of the majority of the posters. Boo expressed a reasonable concern and the responses - including this one - "If Doo wants to enter a particular Audax ride and can't afford the entrance fee, I'm sure we can all chip in
and cover the cost?" has been appalling."

 Frankly, do you think you might come across as a trifle elitist?.

Re: Costs
« Reply #29 on: 22 October, 2017, 02:26:19 pm »
Not appalling. Just expressing a thought and opinion. It is a forum you know. ;)  Many on this forum are from an generation
that had to save up for things we wanted.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Costs
« Reply #30 on: 22 October, 2017, 02:40:17 pm »
"AUdax prices cannot be reduced without them becoming "saturday club rides", where people meet outside the local pub. "

Nothing wrong with that and apart from the 'pub' it is how all of our rides are conducted but usually outside a convenient store.

But the thing that strikes me about most of the comments on this tread is the mean spirited snarkiness of the majority of the posters. Boo expressed a reasonable concern and the responses - including this one - "If Doo wants to enter a particular Audax ride and can't afford the entrance fee, I'm sure we can all chip in
and cover the cost?" has been appalling."

 Frankly, do you think you might come across as a trifle elitist?.

I really don't think I posted anything mean-spirited or snarky.

I am the sort of rider who needed shelter from the elements at controls, usually with a respectable toilet. I didn't expect this to be without cost and was personally lucky enough to be able to afford this.

I had a hot chocolate and a sandwich at Costa last week as we were hungry and it was windy.

This indulgence cost more than many of the Audax rides we are discussing.

We stayed less than an hour at Costa.

whosatthewheel

Re: Costs
« Reply #31 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:00:49 pm »
I haven't heard anyone saying that the cost of an Audax could be significantly reduced. Personally I think it could, but then people won't bother to do them, as they would be glorified club rides, just you have to travel further to do one... what's the incentive, if you remove the brevet card, the points system and all of that?

The camaraderie? Well, to be frank, 90% of the time I am no my own.

If the price is right, then it comes down to individual circumstances.

The initial post asked whether Audax have become more expensive... I don't think they have, not beyond inflation... what used to cost 5, now costs 7 and what used to cost 7 now costs 10.

That is a far cry from the inflation cycling events in general have seen: take  "The Eroica", which I entered in 2005 for 10 Euro, in 2006 for 15, in 2011 for 40 Euro and now it costs 70.

Or other forms of entertainment... take the 6 nations rugby. In 2007 I went to Dublin and paid 25 Euro for a ticket. In 2008 I went to Murrayfield and paid 40 pounds for a ticket, in 2009 I went to Cardiff and paid 60 pounds for a ticket... in 2010 I wanted to go to Twickenham and they wanted 120 pounds... I drew a line there and then.

GrahamG

  • Babies bugger bicycling
Re: Costs
« Reply #32 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:04:23 pm »
I've entered a couple for the first time in a couple of years, noticed a small increase here and there but delving a little deeper showed more organisers in my neck of the woods putting on inclusive food stops our breakfast at start plus food at finish. I'm well impressed that with this in mind they're still such good vfm.
Brummie in exile (may it forever be so)

mmmmartin

  • BPB 1/1: PBP 0/1
    • FNRttC
Re: Costs
« Reply #33 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:17:01 pm »
I am, sadly, old enough to remember a time when an El Supremo audax was on the same day that I was due to go to a pub for lunch with The Present Mrs Mmmmartin and I reckoned it would have been a bloody sight cheaper for both of us to enter the audax, rock up at a control and stuff our faces.

(One hesitates to say better company as well. That would be A Bad Thing to say.)
Besides, it wouldn't be audacious if success were guaranteed.

Re: Costs
« Reply #34 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:17:55 pm »
I dont think many [organisers] are in it as a get rich quick venture.

I am.  It doesn't work.  Other ideas for getting rich I've seen include busking outside LEL control venues.  That didn't seem to work either.

I didn't tell you about the hush money, did I?!

Re: Costs
« Reply #35 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:29:47 pm »
Step changes occur in pricing when a new generation enters the marketplace. The prices I charge for my work haven't changed much over the last decade, as the market has been weak. Those starting today expect more, and they're less productive, so their prices have to be higher.

So it's a good sign that prices are rising. It shows that there's strong demand, and that new organisers are putting on rides.

That effect is going to be more marked in those prosperous areas, where cycling has become fashionable.

An interesting question is what happens in the peripheral areas. The North and Scotland, where organisers find themselves putting on rides which those from the South would happily pay more for, to ensure better facilities. But where higher prices would disadvantage local riders with lower expectations

Volunteers aren't always going to want to put themselves out to make rides cheap for people who are richer than themselves, and could afford more.

whosatthewheel

Re: Costs
« Reply #36 on: 22 October, 2017, 03:30:43 pm »
I am, sadly, old enough to remember a time when an El Supremo audax was on the same day that I was due to go to a pub for lunch with The Present Mrs Mmmmartin and I reckoned it would have been a bloody sight cheaper for both of us to enter the audax, rock up at a control and stuff our faces.

(One hesitates to say better company as well. That would be A Bad Thing to say.)

I am sure it would still be the case.

I paid 35 pounds to enter the National 400, which included 7 meals, as well as the Brevet and all. I thought maybe I could one day do the route again with some friends as a DIY... but there is no way we would be able to go around it with a 35 pounds budget. Even just eating Ginster pasties and Mars bars and get sick along the way, it would be bloody hard to spend less than that.

Typically, in an x-rated 200, I end up spending more than the entry fee just in food along the way and I never stop at cafes

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Costs
« Reply #37 on: 22 October, 2017, 04:39:54 pm »
I paid 35 pounds to enter the National 400, which included 7 meals, as well as the Brevet and all. I thought maybe I could one day do the route again with some friends as a DIY... but there is no way we would be able to go around it with a 35 pounds budget. Even just eating Ginster pasties and Mars bars and get sick along the way, it would be bloody hard to spend less than that.

Typically, in an x-rated 200, I end up spending more than the entry fee just in food along the way and I never stop at cafes
The "National" events I've done have been well run and great value. However:
Surely you could carry the food for a 200 if that was an important issue for you? (Probably a 400 too ... would require more specific luggage, but very doable.)

Might not be as nice as cafe or good control food, sadly  :D
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Costs
« Reply #38 on: 22 October, 2017, 04:56:22 pm »
I paid 35 pounds to enter the National 400, which included 7 meals, as well as the Brevet and all. I thought maybe I could one day do the route again with some friends as a DIY... but there is no way we would be able to go around it with a 35 pounds budget. Even just eating Ginster pasties and Mars bars and get sick along the way, it would be bloody hard to spend less than that.

Typically, in an x-rated 200, I end up spending more than the entry fee just in food along the way and I never stop at cafes
The "National" events I've done have been well run and great value. However:
Surely you could carry the food for a 200 if that was an important issue for you? (Probably a 400 too ... would require more specific luggage, but very doable.)

Might not be as nice as cafe or good control food, sadly  :D

I recall the late Derek Shuttleworth carrying a primus stove and supplies on the Mountain Roads of S Wales.

whosatthewheel

Re: Costs
« Reply #39 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:04:50 pm »
I paid 35 pounds to enter the National 400, which included 7 meals, as well as the Brevet and all. I thought maybe I could one day do the route again with some friends as a DIY... but there is no way we would be able to go around it with a 35 pounds budget. Even just eating Ginster pasties and Mars bars and get sick along the way, it would be bloody hard to spend less than that.

Typically, in an x-rated 200, I end up spending more than the entry fee just in food along the way and I never stop at cafes
The "National" events I've done have been well run and great value. However:
Surely you could carry the food for a 200 if that was an important issue for you? (Probably a 400 too ... would require more specific luggage, but very doable.)

Might not be as nice as cafe or good control food, sadly  :D

I probably could get up at 4 AM instead of 5 AM to prepare sandwiches to carry with me... that would save some money... not all the money, as I still have to buy food to make such sandwiches... Then I'd have to collect ATM receipts only, as they are probably the only free proof of passage... pick up 10 quid in 4 different places in the same day and your bank might decide it is suspicious activity and block your card. And what about those ATM that refuse to give out a receipt despite being asked to? It happened to me several times.

Frankly it all sounds a great deal of hassle

Re: Costs
« Reply #40 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:08:06 pm »
Dig your receipts out of bins, duh ;)

And there's the story of one rider who was queuing with his bottle of soft drink for his receipt at a garage. There was a chap in front buying petrol and fags, and the garage attendant asked if he wanted his receipt. When he said "No", the rider said "I'll have it!". Took it, then went to put the bottle of soft drink back in the fridge...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Costs
« Reply #41 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:12:54 pm »
The cost of food to get round a 200 is the money you spent on meals the day before.  Eating on the way round is just self-indulgence.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Terry2wheelz

  • terry2wheelz
Re: Costs
« Reply #42 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:24:07 pm »
 Nice one Deano - I was hoping that one would be our little secret ...    Tight as cramp I am.... There must be others who share my thrift though ?
Fatter Riders Bounce Better :-) !

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Costs
« Reply #43 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:27:07 pm »
I was shown the bin idea in around 2008 by a frequent poster - and much respected rider/organiser - on this very forum!

(TBF, it was at a Tesco, who I'm pretty sure could manage without our business, and most riders were using the ATM.)



If folks really want to save money in the must-get-a-receipt scenario, then do some planning, and just buy non-food stuff that you'll need at home anyway.

[Firelighters, WD40, Sunday Times - also useful on cold descents, postage stamps - if you really resent paying "petrol station" prices, bags of charcoal, pet-food, "specialist" magazines, etc ... ]
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

whosatthewheel

Re: Costs
« Reply #44 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:35:38 pm »
What if the receipt dug out of the bin (hoping there are no dog turds) was printed ahead of the official control opening?

As we seem to like to brag on here... well, I have to admit I tend to get to the first control within a few minutes from its opening...  ;D

As usual, we seem to have reached a dead end and maybe we need some input from the OP


Re: Costs
« Reply #45 on: 22 October, 2017, 05:54:39 pm »
This from the AUK site:

"Some events are noted for the quality of home-cooked food and tender loving care supplied along the way. But most are not - self-sufficiency is a highly-regarded quality in AUK." But not any more?

Wycombewheeler

  • PBP-2019 LEL-2022
Re: Costs
« Reply #46 on: 22 October, 2017, 06:11:54 pm »
I see no evidence at all that rising prices for audax events is affecting numbers - quite the opposite, in fact.
Case in point
2016 severn across £8.50 36 finishers
2017 London Wales london  £23 81 finishers

It seems to me the market demands more support not lower prices.

In 2016 the cost of food I bought at the two controls which subsequently became catered was less than the price difference but I am aware that many riders would not have made membury services while hot food was still available and having a hall to eat and relax, maybe even nap was good.

Eddington  127miles, 170km

Re: Costs
« Reply #47 on: 22 October, 2017, 06:14:33 pm »
But the thing that strikes me about most of the comments on this tread is the mean spirited snarkiness of the majority of the posters. Boo expressed a reasonable concern and the responses - including this one - "If Doo wants to enter a particular Audax ride and can't afford the entrance fee, I'm sure we can all chip in
and cover the cost?" has been appalling."

 Frankly, do you think you might come across as a trifle elitist?.

Maybe I'm reading through rose-tinted spectacles, but I don't recognise your characterisation of the responses as elitist, mean spirited or appalling at all - even de Sisti's comment about having a whip round, coming as it does immediately after a post about Doo being one of the good guys, struck me as in fun and kindly meant, not as a snide riposte. But I guess we each read these things in our own way.

I confess I look a little askance at X-rated events that are a tenner or more, but there aren't many of those, and where I'll be fed, have shelter in a couple of village halls, and maybe even get a beer at the end I think a few pounds more gives exceptional value.

While clearly if you don't have those few extra pounds spare you don't have them, I do find that unless I'm able to ride to the start (I generally try to pick events where that's possible), then the entry fee is the least of my expenses, what with train tickets, possible accommodation, and food either before or on the way round.

whosatthewheel

Re: Costs
« Reply #48 on: 22 October, 2017, 07:39:23 pm »
This from the AUK site:

"Some events are noted for the quality of home-cooked food and tender loving care supplied along the way. But most are not - self-sufficiency is a highly-regarded quality in AUK." But not any more?

Yes, highly regarded, but most of us for our sins enjoy a warm stew and a bowl of apple pie with custard included in the entry fee... even if that means an extra fiver. I will look at you consuming your Ginster pasty in the rain with zero envy...  :P

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Costs
« Reply #49 on: 22 October, 2017, 07:46:15 pm »


Typically, in an x-rated 200, I end up spending more than the entry fee just in food along the way and I never stop at cafes

200 doesn't demand a lot of food intake - i did one today on three bananas and a bottle of energy drink (under two quid altogether?)