Author Topic: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63  (Read 18941 times)

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #50 on: 31 January, 2018, 10:50:15 pm »
I'm saddened that Cycling UK has nothing to say on the matter. Perhaps it clashes with their goal of getting more cycle paths in London. That last sentence may contain traces of frustration.

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #51 on: 01 February, 2018, 09:30:56 pm »
I was surprised they'd not yet commented - I've just asked them (via Twitter) whether they've an official response to the proposals.

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #52 on: 02 February, 2018, 02:30:33 pm »
I'm saddened that Cycling UK has nothing to say on the matter. Perhaps it clashes with their goal of getting more cycle paths in London. That last sentence may contain traces of frustration.

That would be ironic given they were (IIRC) originally formed to campaign against cycling paths lest it lead to cyclists being banned from roads.

(also, as an active London cycling campaigner - in favour of cycle tracks - I don't recall them every being involved in any campaign I've followed)

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #53 on: 02 February, 2018, 02:59:13 pm »
I was surprised they'd not yet commented - I've just asked them (via Twitter) whether they've an official response to the proposals.
So have I.  I see there's been no response to either of us yet  :-[

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #54 on: 02 February, 2018, 03:01:46 pm »
Can we please have a
Whingeing about the CTC/CyclingUK

forum please? It seems that just about any woe on land or sea can be blamed on them. It's like listening to Rik moaning about Maggie in the Young Ones.

The phone's broken again - bloody Thatcher!


I'm sure the London Cycling Campaign will fix this A63 issue, and British Cycling will introduce free bikes for all YACF members. Not like that rubbish CTC eh?! What have they ever done for us???
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #55 on: 02 February, 2018, 03:06:36 pm »
I'm saddened that Cycling UK has nothing to say on the matter. Perhaps it clashes with their goal of getting more cycle paths in London. That last sentence may contain traces of frustration.

That would be ironic given they were (IIRC) originally formed to campaign against cycling paths lest it lead to cyclists being banned from roads.

(also, as an active London cycling campaigner - in favour of cycle tracks - I don't recall them every being involved in any campaign I've followed)
Coincidentally, something today (not this A63 business) prompted me to think about those 1930s cycle paths. Judging by what Carlton Reid has to say about them, most of them were way better than even the London Superhighways today.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #56 on: 02 February, 2018, 03:45:24 pm »
I was surprised they'd not yet commented - I've just asked them (via Twitter) whether they've an official response to the proposals.
So have I.  I see there's been no response to either of us yet  :-[

https://www.cyclinguk.org/press-release/highways-england-a63-cycle-ban-labelled-ludicrous-cycling-uk

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #57 on: 02 February, 2018, 03:46:24 pm »
 :thumbsup:

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #58 on: 02 February, 2018, 04:09:41 pm »
Matt, I've little time for most of the CTC whinging - in fact my membership subs just went out yesterday - but this is exactly the kind of issue they should be taking a stand on. Thankfully they have, so all is well.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #59 on: 02 February, 2018, 04:23:23 pm »
Matt, I've little time for most of the CTC whinging - in fact my membership subs just went out yesterday - but this is exactly the kind of issue they should be taking a stand on. Thankfully they have, so all is well.
:thumbsup:
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #60 on: 02 February, 2018, 07:02:50 pm »
I'm saddened that Cycling UK has nothing to say on the matter. Perhaps it clashes with their goal of getting more cycle paths in London. That last sentence may contain traces of frustration.

Okay, that is a really wonderful response from CUK. I hope it, together with the CTT and local cyclist's letters will make a difference. (I hadn't noticed that I would be banned from cycling to my place of work from home.)


telstarbox

  • Loving the lanes
2019 🏅 R1000 and B1000

spindrift

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #63 on: 07 February, 2018, 11:23:53 am »
"Accidents".

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #64 on: 07 February, 2018, 12:50:43 pm »
To be fair, the word accident does not appear in the report, except in its correct use by the widow of a man killed.  Less good is the fact that the person pontificating about the safety or otherwise of the road holds the exalted rank of, wait for it...... Police Constable, and that's not intended as a general slur but as indicating surprise at the level of "spokesman" - spokesman in the usual non-cycling sense. 

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #65 on: 08 February, 2018, 01:35:45 pm »
Highways England report traffic  densities of  '2500 vehicles  an hour'.
I think that should read  'up to 2500 vehicles an hour'
I intend  to  write my objection  letter  this  weekend, here is a draft:
Quote
Whilst  I accept that at  times  this section of the  A63 may be unpleasantly busy and best  avoided, imposition of  a  blanket ban disenfranchises cyclists from using the road when traffic densities  are  low, for example  late evening through the night and  early morning before rush hour. There are  good  reasons for using  a primary route such as  the A63 at  such times. (1) Travel during icy conditions affecting untreated or occasionally treated alternative routes. (2) Night  time cycling on minor roads incurs risks  due to poor surfaces . (3) During a late night journey roads  such as  the  A63  offer a direct  fast route without the preceding risks.
 I could cite  many  examples of dynamic risk assessment and reduction by both myself  cycling colleagues and friends. By removing the option to use this primary  route 24/7 you will actually be making  travel by cycle significantly more  hazardous and inconvenient  for a body of cyclists who self-regulate their use of this road to times unseen and unrecorded by others.

You can see  my  objection is from the  POV of  our-of -normal hours cyclists [me]
Not knowing the  road well not  sure  whether  to  quote example  times eg:
 Sunday mornings Before  07:00,
Saturday  May 19th -The  royal wedding/FA cup weekend :-).
Specifically I could cite LEL, where probably 50-100 riders  used  the A1034/A64 from Market  Weighton - N. Ferriby.
Or simply state that 22:00-05:00 Hrs representing 29% of  any one  available day and is a reasonable time  to use a primary route.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #66 on: 08 February, 2018, 01:53:04 pm »
Good points Aidan.

If you look over here on TTF, someone has done some analysis showing that the 2500 vehicles figure is distinctly dodgy when compared to Department for Transport figures

You might also like to point to Highways England's Strategic Business Plan 2010-20, where their aims include

Quote
Doing more to ensure the network has a positive impact on the environment and neighbouring communities

and

Quote
Improving facilities for cyclists, pedestrians and other road users

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #67 on: 08 February, 2018, 05:04:47 pm »
Karla, +Two good references. Thank you

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #68 on: 08 February, 2018, 06:30:58 pm »
Got a mention on Radio4 news this evening.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #69 on: 08 February, 2018, 09:01:43 pm »
Aidan - excellent points about the ice... There are shared use cycle parts but this winter they've been iced up. I've used the A63 for preference for exactly these reasons and forgot to mention it in my letter.

Really balanced 30 minute discussion on Radio 5 Live this evening starting at 6:30pm (listen again?) with Cycling UK, a local bike shop owner, and a hippy motorist who wants us all to be more patient and drive slower.

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #70 on: 08 February, 2018, 09:03:38 pm »
A freedom of information request has highlighted that HE have misrepresented Hull City Council. The TRO says that HCC support the ban. HCC do not support the ban and do not approve of the approach taken by HE.

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #71 on: 09 February, 2018, 09:30:23 am »
Have you got a link to that Graeme?

Graeme

  • @fatherhilarious.blog 🦋
    • Graeme's Blog
Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #72 on: 09 February, 2018, 01:01:11 pm »
Hi Karla, If you Google freedom of information and a63 it is one of three top hits... Hull City Council, East Riding Council, and Humberside Police.


Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #73 on: 09 February, 2018, 01:15:17 pm »
A freedom of information request has highlighted that HE have misrepresented Hull City Council. The TRO says that HCC support the ban. HCC do not support the ban and do not approve of the approach taken by HE.

Which surely invalidates the public consultation as incorrect information has been provided. A request should be made by appropriate cycling bodies to start the consultation from afresh with the correct information regarding the views of HCC. This should ensure more time for cyclists to muster objections and very much dilutes any argument by HE.  As they have s duty to consult, they must do so in a legal manner and misrepresentation of views is not legal.

Re: Proposed Traffic Regulation Order banning cyclists from the A63
« Reply #74 on: 09 February, 2018, 01:29:20 pm »
As they have s duty to consult, they must do so in a legal manner and misrepresentation of views is not legal.

It's certainly not unknown for bodies carrying out public consultations to slant the process to ensure the outcome they desire.  I know this from recent bitter experience (in this case LB Islington), and the process of challenging the findings of consultations (even if patently flawed) is a protracted and expensive one.
The sound of one pannier flapping