Author Topic: Pub Bike Dynamo Lighting (Read 6817 times)

aeolus · « **on:** 13 November, 2018, 06:39:39 pm »

I'm rebuilding a bike we have since about '79/80 Elswick Hopper Mistral, and to add to the new fairly basic LED battery lights, I am thinking of some dynamo lighting as well.
I have a couple of bottle dynamo's a Miller and a Soubitez both 6v 3 w and have been looking at LED lights to suit and have a few questions :-

1. Assume twin wiring is more suitable than using the frame as original ?
2. Is any sort of over voltage protection required ?
3. Any recommenations for lights - don't need any fancy day sensors etc but stand light capacitors would be a good safety feature. Its only a pub bike so not going top of the range as it may get nicked, but some reasonable reliable units - having been looking on Rose bike site but there are too many to choose from !

rogerzilla · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 November, 2018, 06:57:33 pm »

Yes, no, B&M Avy? You don't really need a standlight on the front and the German ones come with a neat pharoah's beard reflector anyway.

Kim · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 November, 2018, 07:19:54 pm »

Personally, I find standlights useful enough to justify the extra few quid. If only to see what I'm doing with my keys by when I get home. YMMV.

I quite like the B&M Lyt as a low-end dymano light - it's got a nice integrated reflector that has a 'ring of light' effect and does a better job of putting some be-seen light to the side than most of B&Ms designs.

grams · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 November, 2018, 07:42:27 pm »

The Axa Pico 30 is cheap and small and has an integrated reflector. It's bright enough to ride on unlit roads, although the beam is annoyingly narrow.

Rear light depends on whether you have a rack or mudguard to mount it to or not.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 November, 2018, 07:49:35 pm »

Depends whether your pub is in town or country! And assuming a pub bike will also be a shop bike, a rack seems very useful as well as being probably the best place for a rear light.

aeolus · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 November, 2018, 09:30:47 pm »

Yes I have a rack but its an old one with a lug on the side to take a single bolt bracket so a rear bar type would require some remounting.

Its fairly rural (not country lanes) with poorly lit areas/seafront etc and they turn them off after 12.00pm !

With the 3w max output and a likely speed in the 10-15mph (slower up at least one major hill) would the higher output lamps (60-80 ) struggle more to deliver a good light than say the ones Kim has noted - I don't know what current is required to drive them.

Cudzoziemiec · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 November, 2018, 09:50:44 pm »

I think if your dynamo makes 3W it should drive any lamp. But someone will be along soon with details and facts (it might even be Kim).

mcshroom · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 November, 2018, 10:13:48 pm »

I've put a cheap Axa slim on the rack of my shopping/pub bike. It works fine IME, and has about a 5 minute stand light.

The only problem is that it doesn't turn off until the stand light is extinguished, even when you've finished riding; leading to well-meaning strangers informing you that "you've left your light on" and that "you don't want to let the batteries run flat".

andrew_s · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 November, 2018, 12:24:20 am »

Quote from: aeolus on 13 November, 2018, 09:30:47 pm

With the 3w max output and a likely speed in the 10-15mph (slower up at least one major hill) would the higher output lamps (60-80 ) struggle more to deliver a good light than say the ones Kim has noted - I don't know what current is required to drive them.

LED lights are OK in this respect.

If you don't supply enough power, the light will be reduced pro rata, so half the power means half the light. You won't get the full 60-80 lumens, but you won't get any less light than a weaker lamp would have given.

This is unlike filament bulbs where the efficiency drops right off when the bulb is underpowered, and half the power may mean only 20% of the light (the rest going in infra-red).

Kim · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 November, 2018, 12:31:33 am »

Quote from: Cudzoziemiec on 13 November, 2018, 09:50:44 pm

I think if your dynamo makes 3W it should drive any lamp. But someone will be along soon with details and facts (it might even be Kim).

There are going to be minor differences here and there (mostly amounting to *exactly* what speed the light reaches full brightness at), but that's the stuff of laboratory conditions, and ostensibly everything that meets the spec^[1] is interchangeable.

Obviously a higher spec light will give you more illumination when up to speed. It's likely to give you more when not-quite-up-to-speed too, but that might not be the whole story: For example the IQ-X is a lot more flickery at low speed than the Cyo family are. A higher-performance light is more likely to cause a bottle dynamo to slip (which is to say, akin to a tungsten lamp - lower spec LED lights mean less load, and less slippage).

_{[1] Some high-performance lights and particularly battery charging devices may be able to go beyond the specification and exploit the additional voltage available from a hub dynamo at high speed. Bottle dynamos tend to have voltage-limiting (to protect tungsten lamps) built in, which will prevent this from happening, but they otherwise work fine.}

vorsprung · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 November, 2018, 03:06:16 pm »

I am thinking the 3rd best commuter bike is going to get a new IQ-X fitted on it. Currently it has a battered Cyo. I would guess that in silver colour they look fairly old skool and would complete the look of any shit bike!

Brucey · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 November, 2018, 07:17:44 pm »

in response to the OP;

1) yes twin wiring is better for sure but note that each lamp may have its own ground return path anyway, so you need to be careful about keeping all the lights and the generator wired up in the same way.

2) No overvoltage protection is required; it is built in to most modern LED front lights. Rear lights vary; all will be OK provided the front light is connected and working, but some will survive as the only light connected to the generator and others won't; read the small print.

3) I don't know how many miles you plan to ride on this bike but if it is more than a few then I'd vote for fitting a hub dynamo even if it means you end up with much cheaper lights; even fairly cheap LED lights are pretty good these days.

Even if you think you only might get a hub dynamo later, and will use a bottle generator for now, I'd vote for getting a front light that is meant for use with a hub dynamo, i.e. with a switch in it; it will only cost pennies more.

Provided you have some half-decent reflectors at the front and don't plan to stop in the middle of the road, I think the value of a standlight at the front is somewhat limited.

cheers

delap · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 November, 2018, 12:18:06 am »

Pub bike dynamo=consider this

McWheels · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 November, 2018, 09:18:01 pm »

Plenty of good dynamo lights. Cost/benefit wise, the B&M IQ Cyo thingy thingy .... this one https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/b-m-lumotec-iq-cyo-premium-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp-709235, is very good, even at low speed. Protetion, standlight, the lot. If you don't want to spend even that much, I've a Union HILUX 35 on another thing which has a narrower but sufficient beam. It was twelve quid in 2016, not sure the same value is there now.

Rear lights, don't overthink it. Get something that you can fit and has a standlight. Beyond that it's your personal perception of risk vs any lingering Dramatic Event Fallacies.

Brucey · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 November, 2018, 10:18:05 pm »

a couple of good budget lights are presently;

B&M IQ Avy; 30lux, decent beam shape, no frills, from about £20

Trelock LS 865; 25lux, again a reasonable beam shape, but with built-in reflector, standlight and automatic switching, from about £22.

cheers

JohnL · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 November, 2018, 07:23:30 am »

A possible consideration for the rear light, if this is a pub bike, is being able to switch off the stand light when you arrive. That limits you, I think, to the rack mounted top line series from B&M. Which are excellent lights and a great value, so this is not a bad thing!

mzjo · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 November, 2018, 08:05:15 am »

Quote from: McWheels on 16 November, 2018, 09:18:01 pm

Plenty of good dynamo lights. Cost/benefit wise, the B&M IQ Cyo thingy thingy .... this one https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/b-m-lumotec-iq-cyo-premium-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp-709235, is very good, even at low speed. Protetion, standlight, the lot. If you don't want to spend even that much, I've a Union HILUX 35 on another thing which has a narrower but sufficient beam. It was twelve quid in 2016, not sure the same value is there now.

Rear lights, don't overthink it. Get something that you can fit and has a standlight. Beyond that it's your personal perception of risk vs any lingering Dramatic Event Fallacies.

We have a Union on Phil's bike - with an entry level Nexus dynohub. It works very well, although we can't say anything for the switch, she keeps it on permanently? The flashing on the wall everytime you move the bike in the garage is a bit disconcerting! It was about 12 or 13€ (online in Holland). We don't have a standlight though. I will test what's on the supermarket shelves next!

Brucey · « **Reply #17 on:** 17 November, 2018, 08:46:59 am »

re the cheap union/marwi (also contec branded I think) headlights; I have had one on a hack bike for three or four years and it seems to work OK. The mounting bracket is stainless steel. I'd mark it down only because it is sinfully ugly, iso tall it looks as if it is liable to get knocked and broken, and the screws that hold it together are not stainless and seem to be rusting like crazy (the bike lives out of doors). The switch seems to work OK, but is a little stiff to move.

The one I have looks about the same as the current UN-4260 (HL-200) model

-which claims 35lux, more than my older one I think. The beam is basically a good shape but it isn't especially wide or anything like that. More than good enough for nipping round town etc. and a bargain at the price.

cheers

mzjo · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 November, 2018, 08:02:04 pm »

Quote from: Brucey on 17 November, 2018, 08:46:59 am

re the cheap union/marwi (also contec branded I think) headlights; I have had one on a hack bike for three or four years and it seems to work OK. The mounting bracket is stainless steel. I'd mark it down only because it is sinfully ugly, iso tall it looks as if it is liable to get knocked and broken, and the screws that hold it together are not stainless and seem to be rusting like crazy (the bike lives out of doors). The switch seems to work OK, but is a little stiff to move.

The one I have looks about the same as the current UN-4260 (HL-200) model

-which claims 35lux, more than my older one I think. The beam is basically a good shape but it isn't especially wide or anything like that. More than good enough for nipping round town etc. and a bargain at the price.

cheers

That's the one! I forgot it's weakness, it's so tall that fitting it under a lot of mtb bars can cause problems. Phil's is on a bracket custom made out of 3 brazed together which doesn't look pretty; it started out as a bracket replacing a stem spacer which had to be extended downwards. there's no tapped hole on Phil's sus fork for fitting lights and mudguards to! I will look and see if the screws have resisted La Rochelle's salt.

andrew_s · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 November, 2018, 11:12:38 pm »

Amazon are selling the Cyo Premium for £29 at present (only a few left)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Busch-M%C3%BCller-Lumotec-Premium-dynamo/dp/B00GO9WBGC/ref=cts_sp_4_vtp

(info courtesy of edocaster on the CTC forum)

rogerzilla · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 November, 2018, 05:37:58 pm »

I know it's not a dynamo light but Amazon also have the 80 lux Ixon IQ Premium with batteries and charger for a trifling £22.38. It's two or three times that everywhere else.

aeolus · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 November, 2018, 07:06:09 pm »

Thanks for all the replies,

Plan is to install ones of theese
https://www.rosebikes.co.uk/b-m-lumotec-iq-cyo-r-premium-t-senso-plus-front-headlamp-709231
its the 60 lux one and a B&M Toplight Line Plus (Rack light) on bespoke bracket - both have standlights and off switches.

Wiring - will insulate the dynamo on the seatstay and run twin wire to front and another twin direct from the dynamo to the rearlight (ignoring any wiring conections B&M have on the front light for rear connections as it would double up on the wiring !)

Havn't run a dynamo in anger since the Sixties/seventies in group rides with the local CTC (incuding all night rides) and the hum of dynamo's with the poor yellow light together with the 'Never Ready's' brings back a lot of happy memories !

mattc · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 November, 2018, 07:18:27 pm »

Ordered - thankyou Rog & Andrew!

[I've already used both and recommend them

]

hubner · « **Reply #23 on:** 18 November, 2018, 08:57:38 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 18 November, 2018, 05:37:58 pm

I know it's not a dynamo light but Amazon also have the 80 lux Ixon IQ Premium with batteries and charger for a trifling £22.38. It's two or three times that everywhere else.

Thanks! I've just ordered one for £21.28. Which is ridiculous as they're usually around £65 for the version with charger and batteries.

Kim · « **Reply #24 on:** 18 November, 2018, 09:02:37 pm »

Quote from: aeolus on 18 November, 2018, 07:06:09 pm

Wiring - will insulate the dynamo on the seatstay and run twin wire to front and another twin direct from the dynamo to the rearlight (ignoring any wiring conections B&M have on the front light for rear connections as it would double up on the wiring !)

You don't need to isolate the dynamo, just be consistent with polarity if the rear light has a grounded connection (Cyos don't connect to the frame).