the perm is dead? long live the gps perm

[Manotea]

Any such will likely simply be perm versions of new calendar event (and one gets the distinct impression that these are also an endangered species).

do you mean the perm versions or the calendar events; I very much doubt any of this wizardry will threaten the calendar event, it's an experience head and shoulders above a perm IMHO;

but the folly of it all was brought home to me whilst riding a calendar event a few weeks ago; the organiser said "actually the calendar event uses a much nicer route than the perm" remind me again what the fundamental difference between them is...

I'm reflecting posts by eminent AUKs to regarding the number and quality of calendar events. From my POV the reason I ride perm is because of the shortage of calendar events, or at least my reluctance/ability to travel the country searching them out.

The flip side of this coin is that my Faccombe Willy route (the Willy Warmer with Altitude)  is best ridden as a GPS DIY. I collected some info questions last time round but I've not gotten a round to listing it as a Perm.

I do agree the with MV, group perms are the most sociable (translation: I don't get dropped). And I sympathise with his view on points. As always, it depends on your personal objectives. Last year I did rode several pointless rides myself and gasped at the illicit thrill of riding x00km without a Brevet!

I similarly agree with Billy. As a new Org I was rather jealous of the time and effort put into developing a new route. Nowadays I'm happy simply for feedback. The routes are online. Riders only need come to me if they want a Brevet for the listed event.

It's a shame we don't have any posters called Nick or Dave so I could agree with them as well.

[Billy Weir]

Route setting is qualitative as well as quantitative. After all, a computer won't ever have the emotions to judge what a route "feels" like.

That's what the scenic-ness database is for: to tell the computer how humans respond emotionally to different bits of route.

Unfortunately, teleportation between scenic locations isn't possible.  87% of any ride is getting between these views.  It's those bits that often determine whether a ride is well received or not.

Whilst some routes write themselves (e.g. my Glen Tae Ben, which follows the only roads available in a very scenic area) others need quite a bit of work to refine.

For example, Redhill Beach Trip, which me and another forumite rode at an early stage, realised it needed work and then put on a much better route by changing the roads used.  This was despite the original looking, on paper, as a decent route - there was a 15km stretch that materially affected the feel of the ride.  Even simple little things, like the direction in which the Beachy Head road was done (anti-clockwise is much better that clockwise) made a noticeable difference.

I suspect a computer would find it difficult to make such judgements without human intervention.  Of course, if the idea is to have a reasonable route rather than the best route, then such refinements may be irrelevant

[Alouicious]

The DIY perm.

Pick three towns.
Check on ViaMichelin they add up to the required distance.
Enter the route on the on-line Entry form.
Get a confirmation from the Organiser.

Get a start PoP.
Find the first town in 'Cities' on my Garmin. Press 'Navigate', and see what fun the day brings.

[eeymsmo]

That would be a DIY by GPS would it not? - Riding a DIY permanent by GPS - as you're creating the course.

A GPS perm would be more along the lines of:

Look through list of routes online and pick one
Click online entry and paypal buttons
Recieve route sheet and track file
Fiddle track file onto gps unit for navigation, OR just follow the route sheet with gps unit just for tracking
Have a lovely relaxing bike ride following a route vouchsafed by someone who's put a lot of effort into it.
Get home, have cup of tea
Plug in GPS unit, email/upload your track file from the unit
Org checks that GPS track confirms you passed through points x,y,z,a,b, possibly checking that you only went between a+b via BIG HILL  if needed and all within the time limit
If it all checks out, you get the points/warm fuzzies from completing the ride within the rules.

[frankly frankie]

It would be a Lead-me-by-the-nose-up-the-garden-path-without-a-paddle Perm.

[Martin]

I'm reflecting posts by eminent AUKs to regarding the number and quality of calendar events. From my POV the reason I ride perm is because of the shortage of calendar events, or at least my reluctance/ability to travel the country searching them out.

as I often find myself riding into and out of That London I can see why you would find a shortage of calendar events convenient to you; and the vaguries of train travel from our capital city at weekends and especially Sunday compounds it;

Audax events tend to be Local Events for Local People with the exception of the classics where people travel from all over to ride them. (I think this belongs in the Audaxing without a car thread)