Tandem LEJoG record broken

[Jaded]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-32622582

It is still slower than the bicycle record, I think.

[LEE]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-32622582

It is still slower than the bicycle record, I think.

Maybe they weren't pedalling on the back*

Tandemers love it when you shout that so I encourage everyone to do so (just in case they haven't heard it before).

[mrcharly-YHT]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-32622582

It is still slower than the bicycle record, I think.

Correct, Getihn's time was 44 hours, 4 minutes and 20 seconds

[Jakob W]

Any obvious reason why? Is it a lumpy route?

[Gus]

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/tandem-duo-smash-non-stop-lejog-record-169994
Maxing out at 58 mph No wonder they didn't break the best ever time.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I'd imagine that is bloody difficult to produce sustained peak performance for that long on a tandem. Much easier on a solo.

[marcusjb]

Astonishing achievement. 

Took Dom 3 goes to get it right, and they certainly did. 

Massive chapeau to them - that's one of the longer standing records out there absolutely smashed.

[Karla]

Some of the failures have been pretty good athletes too: James Cracknell, Rebecca Romero and Glenn Longland aren't known for being weak.

Lots of videos on the a3crg facebook group.

[Exit Stage Left]

The mixed tandem is a different proposition, as it's held by Andy Wilkinson and Lynne Taylor.

[mattc]

I'd imagine that is bloody difficult to produce sustained peak performance for that long on a tandem. Much easier on a solo.

The stats (for this route) support you - but for me I'd love to know "Why?"

They are much much faster over the shorter distances. And pedalling stamina is pedalling stamina. Isn't it? 

/neverriddenone

[LittleWheelsandBig]

A tandem team's 'bad patches' never coincide. That means more time when the team isn't travelling at full speed.

[L CC]

What LW&B said.
You can get away, as amateurs on fun rides, where one of you 'carries' the other for some of it (I have better stamina than Mr Smith, I'm almost always pushing harder at the end). Both being on top form for the whole ride is nigh on impossible. And when you're both struggling your team performance is worse than one rider flagging on a solo.

They took a big chunk off the previous record. Awesome.

[mattc]

From a pure science POV, that makes no sense. A solo rider isn't at full speed for the whole 2 days either.
With 2 of you, the "on it" rider will compensate a little for the grumpy rider, so the bad patches should be faster than a solo's bad patches (

A tandem team's 'bad patches' never coincide.

)

Or in other words; it should all balance out over the 2 days.

What am I missing?!?

[L CC]

When the 'on' rider is carrying the 'off' rider they are not faster than a solo.
So for simplicity let's say ++=25mph, +-=18mph and - - =15mph.
A solo rider is +=22mph and -=17mph.
The tandem has more time at +- & - - than the solo does at -.
 

[mattc]

That assumes that 2 "off" riders are slower on a tandem than on 2 solos.

(hence your examples of 15 vs 17).

I dont see why that would be the case. on flat-ish courses, tandems are a more efficient way of getting 2xhumans around. it shouldn't matter whether its 2xWiggos or 2xfboabs.

[L CC]

Even on a flat-ish course 2 off riders are slower than on a solo. I think it's because you end up 'fighting' each other- the tiny differences in cadence work against you, and even the slightest up slope means you're both working harder for less benefit.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

You stick with supposition mattc. I'll stick with experience.

[Exit Stage Left]

Are there any instances where the tandem record is faster than the solo?
On the road the frontal area advantages are offset by the sidewind disadvantages.

[rob]

Are there any instances where the tandem record is faster than the solo?
On the road the frontal area advantages are offset by the sidewind disadvantages.

In CTT records up to 100 miles (only looked at mens), but there's not a huge amount in it -roughly 4mins on the 100.   The solo 12hr and 24hr distances are further.

*EDIT* Tandem 10 record is 1s slower than Dowsett's record of last year. 

[mrcharly-YHT]

I reckon a lot of it will be due to the rider's being coupled by the timing chain. It's like a fixed gear bike where the rider doesn't have an even pedal stroke - they are fighting each other.

For a short period, two well trained people could pedal in sync. Over a longer period they will (to a small degree) be fighting one-another, particularly when trying to sustain high output.

[mattc]

Are there any instances where the tandem record is faster than the solo?
On the road the frontal area advantages are offset by the sidewind disadvantages.

In CTT records up to 100 miles (only looked at mens), but there's not a huge amount in it -roughly 4mins on the 100.   The solo 12hr and 24hr distances are further.

*EDIT* Tandem 10 record is 1s slower than Dowsett's record of last year.

And if you look at year-on-year, until a few years ago I think the 10 tandem was faster.

Dowsett is certainly in a different class to the tandem riders he has beaten. I'm pretty certain that Dowsett+Wiggo+practice could knock any short-distance solo record for 6.

[rob]

I don't really doubt it.  When Taylor/Carr did a lot of tandem TTs they buddied up and trained specifically.   The Yates/Carr (12hr) and Yates/Hutchinson (25) records were put together quite late, or so I read in the comic at the time.

What the stats do show, though is that the solos start to have the advantage as the distances go up with the 12hr record being 12 miles further and the 24hr record 40 miles further.   I do think a trained and practiced pairing could manage way more than 501 miles in a 24hr.

[mattc]

Even on a flat-ish course 2 off riders are slower than on a solo. I think it's because you end up 'fighting' each other- the tiny differences in cadence work against you, and even the slightest up slope means you're both working harder for less benefit.

I reckon a lot of it will be due to the rider's being coupled by the timing chain. It's like a fixed gear bike where the rider doesn't have an even pedal stroke - they are fighting each other.

For a short period, two well trained people could pedal in sync. Over a longer period they will (to a small degree) be fighting one-another, particularly when trying to sustain high output.

OK, that sounds perfectly feasible. 

I doubt its the whole answer - we need Dowsett/Wiggo to put serious training into an attempt to get that

[Exit Stage Left]

I don't really doubt it.  When Taylor/Carr did a lot of tandem TTs they buddied up and trained specifically.   The Yates/Carr (12hr) and Yates/Hutchinson (25) records were put together quite late, or so I read in the comic at the time.

What the stats do show, though is that the solos start to have the advantage as the distances go up with the 12hr record being 12 miles further and the 24hr record 40 miles further.   I do think a trained and practiced pairing could manage way more than 501 miles in a 24hr.

That's what the Guy Martin team thought initially, before they moved on to their recumbent idea.

[Mr Larrington]

I'd like to see someone applying some proper SCIENCE to multi-rider HPV records; they've been lagging behind the solos since forever.