Peculiar knees

[LindaG]

My friend video'd me out cycling today.  I watched it, and my knees are all over the place.  They ... wiggle in and out when I'm pedalling.  I've been told this before, and also have noticed it (I can see it, but not feel it).  I always try to keep my knees straight, at least I do when I remember to, but had no idea how strange it looked!

Is this likely to be cramping my cycling (obviously it is severely cramping my style)?

Any tips to sort this?

[Madcow]

Check your saddle height.Most people have saddles too low so raising it slightly may do the trick .Dont raise it too much in one go,just 1-2 cm at a time.

[MSeries]

if you are not experiencing any pain I wouldn't be overly concerned. It's not uncommon for limbs to not track in a parallel fashion. Since my hip OP my right heel sometimes moves in at the start of the up stroke. Even un altered people have inconsistencies like this. It can be corrected, you need to do it consciously until it becomes instinctive and you muscles do it on their own.

[Russell]

Wedges are normally indicated for solving this issue. Try LeWedge at Bike Fit or the Specialized insole wedges.

A friend also had this wiggle effect but his was due to ligament problems that was cured by surgery.

[LindaG]

Oh!  I have had ligament damage in the past.  I wonder if that's a factor?  Certainly my knees sound like their bearings need work when I go upstairs.

[Wendy]

Go see the bike whisperer?  Charlotte recommends him I believe.

[rogerzilla]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

[mattc]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

I don't know the justification for the above, but I know my physio would have a fit reading it!

Does this come from the Steak&Brandy nutrition manual?

[little miss mac]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

I do this naturally. I wonder why. Sheer talent?  

[Biggsy]

I think you should allow your knees to do whatever they want to do, and if using clipless pedals, use ones with plenty of float.

[fred the great]

I agree.

[LindaG]

Okay.   I will continue to use lots of float.

Also, I will stop looking at my knees to see how straight I'm keeping them.  It leads to involuntary potholing experiences. 

Thanks all for the advice.

[MSeries]

Your pedalling action from behind, didn't look anything unusual on Saturday.

[LindaG]

Our friend Shyumu pointed it out.  Then he video'd it.  From my angle it's quite pronounced.  But I've been watching other people's knees since then and not many people are perfectly parallel through their stroke.

Best not to think about it and get on with riding the bike, I think.  I suspect Shyumu wished to distract me from chasing him on Bikejournal.

[Rich753]

I would say check you core stability and glutes - but then that's my first pass  answer for any lower limb disorder 

[simonp]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

I don't know the justification for the above, but I know my physio would have a fit reading it!

Indeed.  This artificially increases the Q-angle.  A high Q-angle is associated with patellofemoral syndrome.

[rogerzilla]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

I do this naturally. I wonder why. Sheer talent?  

Actually, women do it instinctively, or so it says in my "Cycle Sport" manual.  Only men have to learn the technique.

[greenmeansgo]

Classically, you should ride with your knees almost brushing the top tube (OK, modern compact frames may put the top tube well below knee level but you get the point).  This has to be learned.

I don't know the justification for the above, but I know my physio would have a fit reading it!

Indeed.  This artificially increases the Q-angle.  A high Q-angle is associated with patellofemoral syndrome.

Surely if anything your knees should be going straight up and down, not falling in towards the frame at the top of the pedal stroke. It's certainly not something you should be aiming for! I have (improving) patellofemoral knee pain and make a conscious effort not to let my knees wander towards the frame as this makes them worse.

I would recomment the specialized body geometry shoes/insoles/wedges if you're having problems - I swear by mine.

[simonp]

Agreed.  Straight up and down is the biomechanically correct thing to do.

[Ian H]

Actually, women do it instinctively, or so it says in my "Cycle Sport" manual.  Only men have to learn the technique.

Observation suggests more women than men cycle knees in, and males in lycra on good bikes tend to do the same. But it's not a universal rule. The latest advice I've heard from a cycling physio is that parallel motion up and down is best.

[inc]

My friend video'd me out cycling today.  I watched it, and my knees are all over the place. 

Is this likely to be cramping my cycling

Any tips to sort this?

The knee is a simple joint working in one plane, the hip however can move in all directions and is muscled to enable that, when you put force on the pedal an imbalance in the quads, glutes and other smaller stabilising muscles causes your knee to move to the side. Obviously the more strain put on the knee will increase in the longer term the risk of injury. There is a good book if you want to know more called " Stability, Sport and Performance Movement" by Joanne Elphinston

[CamPhil]

I used to pedal with my knees almost brushing the top tube, until I caught my knee brace under the top tube when climbing 

As it a rather heavy duty brace (one of these) I consider myself lucky to have got away with only a case of nettle rash from the verge I landed on, and a tiny scratch on the top tube.

I try to keep my knee well clear of the top tube now

[Doosh]

I've got a funny feeling my knees don't naturally go up and down in a straight line. Since switching to SPDs for the first time the other week I've been having knee problems that I couldn't pin down no matter what.

yesterday I accidentally found a much better cleat position that moved my feet further out from the pedals, hence moving my knees out as well, so much more comfortable. in fact I'm thinking of buying  pair of those knee savers that move the pedals out even further, but I still think there isn't enough float in the pedals and it's restricting my natural knee movement slightly.

[Kim]

in fact I'm thinking of buying  pair of those knee savers that move the pedals out even further, but I still think there isn't enough float in the pedals and it's restricting my natural knee movement slightly.

Specialized BG Pedal Axle Extenders 9/16 Thread

By far the cheapest I've seen.

[LEE]

My friend video'd me out cycling today.  I watched it, and my knees are all over the place.  

If you are having knee problems then you may need to worry, if you do not have niggles then I'd leave well alone unless you are competing and need maximum efficiency.

I once commented on an Audax veteran's pedalling style as being akin to an egg-whisk, knees flapping all over the place.  This odd style (maybe similar to yours) never prevented him from being quicker over any terrain than me.

As I watched him disappear up a climb I wondered whether I should also flap my knees more. (any Aliens watching would assume it was me with the incorrect pedalling style)