Author Topic: Choosing a chain  (Read 3700 times)

quixoticgeek

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Choosing a chain
« on: 15 December, 2017, 07:48:53 pm »

I'm trying to understand bike chains.

Currently I have a Shimano HG-54 10 speed chain. It seems to work, and I'm expecting it to last about 2000km. Given I'm doing 150-200 a week plus tours, that's going to arrive pretty quickly. It looks like a new HG54 chain is about €15-20 plus shipping depending on where I get it.

One thread I saw recommended KMC chains as an alternative to the OEM chain. Only when I looked at the KMC website I was overwhelmed with option paralysis and got confused.

What do people recommend in terms of good bike chains to use? Can I buy big spools of chain that I can just chop the right number of links off? What's the solution for chains for high millage with out buying shares in a chain manufacturer?

J
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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #1 on: 15 December, 2017, 07:53:23 pm »
Just stick with cheap Shimano 10 speed.

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #2 on: 15 December, 2017, 09:15:17 pm »
The only chains I have ever known to give problems were Shimano (perhaps the 10sp are better but I'll let others try to convince me, I still ain't buying).

Blodwyn Pig

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #3 on: 15 December, 2017, 09:23:06 pm »
I use kmc x9 93   ...9 speed chain on a shimano 10 sp block, 12-27, (with campag chainset, and campag front and rear mechs, with shimano bar cons in friction mode) BUT I had to swap the black spacer ring 'a-mid-ships' for a campag one, and it doesn't skip now. Purfect, and only itro £9  from Hopkinson cycles on the bay.

robgul

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #4 on: 15 December, 2017, 09:41:39 pm »
KMC chains every time* - complete with magic links.  The quality/strength is largely just a price based hierarchy - they all seem to be much of a muchness (obviously with the correct range for the cassette sprocket number) - the more expensive ones have better plating which reduces dirt etc but I'm not convinced on any strength variables.

Downside of Shimano is the need in a lot of them for a special link that needs careful fitting - with a magic link removing the chain to clean is easy - or if you're on the road and bust a chain it's simple to remove the open link and use a second magic.   

* that said I've been using SRAM basic 8 speed chains for years and they're fine, and cheap.

Rob

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #5 on: 15 December, 2017, 09:50:08 pm »
KMC, SRAM, Wipperman.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Kim

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #6 on: 15 December, 2017, 10:46:10 pm »
I'm mostly on 9-speed Shimano-flavour transmissions.  I use SRAM PC971 chains on the recumbents (which by their nature are pretty easy on chains), because they often come up cheaply in the sales (important when the bike needs 2.5 of them).  I splash out on PC991 for the hybrid, because the posh fully nickel-plated version tolerates a winter regime of road salt and random neglect somewhat better.  My early experience of a Shimano chain (HG53 IIRC) in that application was that it worked fine but rusted far too easily.

I think the trike had a KMC of some sort on it from new.  That was fine (indistinguishable from SRAM) until it wore out.

My mountain bike has a Shimano 10 speed chain (I'm not sure which flavour), no problems in the ~500 miles it's done - but it tends to get absolutely covered in muck and then cleaned and lubed properly before being put away.

Not sure what the stock Brompton chains are (7 speed something, probably low end SRAM or KMC), but it seemed quite rust-prone.  It's currently got a PC971 on it, purely on the basis that a part-worn 9-speed chain from the spares box is cheaper than a new 7-speed one from a shop.

My tourer's in the process of going 10-speed because I crash damaged the rear shifter, making the upgrade cost-neutral.  I've bought some PC1031, which seems like the 10 speed equivalent of the PC971.  Not been tested yet.


TBH, beyond working out the equivalent levels of shinyness and super weight weenie hollow pin stuff between manufacturers, I think the major difference is in the quick links.  They all basically work for 7, 8 and 9 speed, though I find the SRAM ones marginally easier without tools than the KMC version.  Once you get to 10 speed, there are dodgy single-use links to worry about.


Disclaimer:  I'm a spinner of gears, so I don't subject my chains to very high stress.  I've never broken a chain other than at an incompetently reassembled quick link, and that's in spite of naughtily re-joining chains by pushing pins back in (on account of all those half-chains that would otherwise go to waste).  Single-speed (of whatever flavour) just uses cheap bombproof chains on optimal chainlines.  It's the derailleur-based tandemistas whose opinions I'd really be listening to...

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #7 on: 15 December, 2017, 11:04:18 pm »
I think if you're changing your chain as frequently as you intend, it doesn't make too much odds. I go for whatever is cheap, includes a quicklink, and is from (as rafletcher says) Wipperman, Sram or KMC - I was put off shimano by their special joining pins years ago, and haven't felt any need to try them since.

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #8 on: 15 December, 2017, 11:25:15 pm »

.... What's the solution for chains for high millage with out buying shares in a chain manufacturer?


For the hard miles, use an IGH, if you don't want to spend time and effort worrying about chains.

When I was doing a lot of hard miles BITD, I could not make a chain and freewheel last more than about six weeks before it was wrecked. I soon found that a new chain and sprocket for an IGH was required less often and was much cheaper too.

Re chains, the very cheapest derailleur chains from most manufacturers are made in less hard materials, and don't last anywhere near as long. But reasonable chains start at the second rung in the hierarchy.

It turns out that chainrings and derailleur sprockets wear (in a bad way) mainly in response to chains that are worn. So if you find some way of running with a chain that isn't worn for longer, that will prolong the useful working life of all the other bits. 

In an ideal world a £30 chain would last x3 longer than a £10 chain, but that does not quite seem to happen.

If you want to get the most out of your transmission parts, a good strategy is to use three or four £10 chains in rotation. Change the chain every week, and clean/relube the chains that are off the bike at intervals, such that you always have a clean chain ready to fit.

You can buy reels of chain in 7/8s; the unspoken assumption is that you will join the chain with a chain tool. In 10s I don't think this is a common option.  Even very busy LBSs  usually don't bother with reels of chain because they are big, heavy expensive to buy, and something of a faff.

Thing is, a '£10 chain' is about right for 9s , but it will be substantially cheaper than that for 8s, and about half as much again for 10s.  10s chains don't last quite as long as 9s either. In KMC chains an X10-73 is a good value chain, and is about £13 at CRC right now I think.

cheers




Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #9 on: 16 December, 2017, 08:34:07 am »
When I was munching through chains at a rate of knots because of a 100Km (total) daily E-W London commute, I used KMC (albeit 9 speed) as they were the cheapest. I'd change the chain at 0.5% wear when I remembered, or if I went past I'd change change and cassette when it started slipping. One notable occasion when I left it just that bit too long the chain broke at what might be described as an unfortunate moment.

Thinking back, that was about 2000Km a chain in winter, I'd be very surprised if Amsterdam is as bad as London but it may be; the London difference is tangible when you shower off you can feel the grinding paste that comes off the roads.

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #10 on: 16 December, 2017, 09:44:51 am »
I am with Kim here.  All of our machines run 9 speed transmissions and the chain of choice is a PC971 from SRAM.   I have tried Shimano, Wipperman and KMC but find SRAM to be more durable and convenient.   If I ever went for 10 or 11 speed I would stick with SRAM in the first instance.

I chose the 971 over the 951 as it appears to be significantly more durable and doesn't seem to rust or get sticky links even when neglected in the winter.  Shimano chains seem to rust at the mere thought of rain.

Morat

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #11 on: 16 December, 2017, 10:03:38 am »
It's the derailleur-based tandemistas whose opinions I'd really be listening to...

A heavy (powerful!) tandem team can break any type of chain with a poorly judged gear change so the selection is more influenced by ease of repair IME. Wipperman seem as good as any providing you get the oddly asymmetric joining link in the right way round. They claim to be "toolless" to break/make but I keep a pair of those chain link pliers handy anyway.
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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #12 on: 16 December, 2017, 11:21:08 am »
......My tourer's in the process of going 10-speed because I crash damaged the rear shifter, making the upgrade cost-neutral.  I've bought some PC1031, which seems like the 10 speed equivalent of the PC971.....

if you wanted the equivalent of PC971  in 10s, maybe you should have got PC1071.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/component/chains#sm.00017sk5jm7eqekxw7614lpn0laqw

time was when PC830 and the comparable bottom rung chains in each speed had different (less) hardening than the better chains, and the better chains differed from one another in terms of finish only. The current range may be different to that; I've not seen anything confirmed.

cheers

Kim

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #13 on: 16 December, 2017, 03:51:49 pm »
......My tourer's in the process of going 10-speed because I crash damaged the rear shifter, making the upgrade cost-neutral.  I've bought some PC1031, which seems like the 10 speed equivalent of the PC971.....

if you wanted the equivalent of PC971  in 10s, maybe you should have got PC1071.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/component/chains#sm.00017sk5jm7eqekxw7614lpn0laqw

I looked at that and concluded that the numbers are more similar than the chains.  Decided to start with the one that had the best price and see how I get on.  It's a touring bike, so I'm not fussed about weight (although it's about 20g lighter per chain than the 9-speed), and it's a recumbent so it won't be under high stress (and the consequences of the chain breaking are less painful).

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #14 on: 16 December, 2017, 08:11:26 pm »
you may be right; the description of the hardening is no different between the two chains and the 1071 model has hollow pins which are unlikely to offer any wear benefit.

cheers

Feanor

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #15 on: 16 December, 2017, 08:25:14 pm »
I think if you're changing your chain as frequently as you intend, it doesn't make too much odds. I go for whatever is cheap, includes a quicklink, and is from (as rafletcher says) Wipperman, Sram or KMC - I was put off shimano by their special joining pins years ago, and haven't felt any need to try them since.

Yebbut...
You don't *have* to use the snappy-off Shimano pins that come with their chains.

I often used Shimano chains with KMC or SRAM quick-links.

FWIW, I use KMC chains at the moment, for largely cosmetic reasons.
I find their chains clean up to shiny much more betterer than the Shimano ones ever did.

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #16 on: 16 December, 2017, 08:45:26 pm »
In KMC chains an X10-73 is a good value chain,
It's a cracker (no pun intended) My chain wear tool wouldn't drop in after 2000 miles, and I haven't exactly looked after it as well as I normally do

Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #17 on: 17 December, 2017, 04:59:13 pm »
FWIW I've run Shimano, KMC and Wipperman Connex on my ten speed triple over the yeas and have found Connex (the 10SX part-stainless steel) to be the longest lasting, although I don't commute on my bike.

Bianchi Boy

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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #18 on: 28 December, 2017, 02:41:17 pm »
FWIW I've run Shimano, KMC and Wipperman Connex on my ten speed triple over the yeas and have found Connex (the 10SX part-stainless steel) to be the longest lasting, although I don't commute on my bike.
Connex / Wipperman every time. Only had one snapped chain in 17 years and one failed magic link. No tools required and just get the directional link the correct way round. I use the nicket plated ones, 10S8, and find then to be long lasting and foolproof.

I did venture into the world of KMC once. Chain lasted a couple of weeks and snapped. If I had not had my Connex magic link I would have been stranded with the prospect of an expensive taxi ride home.

BB
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quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #19 on: 30 January, 2018, 05:40:23 pm »

Last week at the 1000km point I stuck the chain wear measurer on the chain and the 0.5% didn't quite slip in. Today I thought I'd double check to see how much longer I had on this chain... It dropped straight in at 0.75%. Oops. I've done 1287.7km on this chain.

Have replaced the original shimano HG54 chain with a KMC X10.93 chain. It was a 15 minute job to do. Am hoping I get more than 1300km out of the new chain. Time will tell.

J
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Re: Choosing a chain
« Reply #20 on: 30 January, 2018, 09:09:18 pm »
sounds like you caught it just in time.

BTW it often pays to take multiple measurements of a chain. Whether they really do wear unevenly or it is just that  at any given time some links may have lumps of crud in the bushings (that would affect the measurement), I'm not sure.

Also if you want to measure using a proper measuring tool, you can use digital Vernier calipers; a method (that I use) is as follows;

1) set to inches
2) insert the internal jaws between two adjacent rollers and 'zero' the caliper
3) set the caliper to ~4.9" , insert into the chain and measure between the leftmost roller (i.e. the one you zeroed on before) and the nearest the right hand jaw.

You should get a reading of 5.000" with a new, well-made chain. A chain that reads 5.025" is 0.5% worn, 5.050" is 1% worn, and so forth. 

This method eliminates the error that arises from roller wear, which applies to most 'drop-in' chain checkers.

NB with very narrow chains, you may need to grind away one side of your internal jaws a little to get them into the chain link properly.

FWIW I just bought another (cheap) set of Digital Verniers in Aldi. They cost £7.99; they are not brilliant (they need fettling on the slide adjust) but they will do for this sort of job.

cheers