Raleigh frame numbers

[SteveS]

Can anyone help me to identify my Raleigh Special Products Division that I bought second hand last November? The tubing is Reynolds Optima butted and the frame number, under the bottom bracket is G32114. From what I've found out so far this would suggest it was made in the Dutch Gazelle factory in the 1970s. However, Reynolds were not making Optima tubing that early as I think the first Optimas were 501 and were later changed to 525. Did Reynolds brand 531 for Raleigh as Optima in Holland or have Raleigh reused earlier frame numbers? Your thoughts would be much appreciated.
I've got a picture of it, but I've no idea how to upload it.

[Torslanda]

I've got a picture of it, but I've no idea how to upload it.

'Host' the picture at Photobucket or Flickr, this is free and pretty straightforward. Then copy the 'Direct Link' url into your post within the 'Insert Image' javascript and you can put something in to your post easily.

Like this:



Simples!

Hit 'reply with quote' and you'll see how the code is arranged in the body of the text.



If it's any help my DynaTechs are mid-90s vintage. I'm ashamed to say I haven't a note of the frame numbers to hand but IIRC they are very close, being a pair from the same bike shop.

luv'n'stuff

J

[Woofage]

Can't help you with the tubing, but my Special Products frame bears the serial number J46153. I always assumed the letter designated the year of manufacture as is common in serial number conventions. Mine's a late frame, as suggested by the more modern decals, in Reynolds 631. Probably made in the late 90s.

[SteveS]

Thanks Torslanda for the info on uploading a pic and the pic you included of the Optima label is exactly the same as on my frame.

[Torslanda]

Thanks Torslanda for the info on uploading a pic and the pic you included of the Optima label is exactly the same as on my frame.

No worries! I'm a complete tart when it comes to exhibitionism 

This is the red one. Owt like yours??



Not that I wanted any excuse or anything . . .

[SteveS]

It looks beautiful Torslander and is probably faster than mine as its red and mine's blue. Mine has a full chrome fork and is drilled for road calipers and looks to have closer clearances with no mudguard or pannier eyelets so I use sks raceguards and a topeak beam rack. It also has the traditional metal heron headbadge which is a lovely bit of retro bling. From your picture it looks like they both have the same lugless fillet brazing.

[hubner]

I would think that's tig welded rather fillet brazing, and definitely not 1970s.

[Rhys W]

I think Optima was basically 501 tweaked to cope better with the trend for TIG welding in the 90s (rather than lugged). Just before Reynolds came out with a completely new range specifically for TIG welding (631, 725 & 853). Pretty sure it's not a 1970s Gazelle...

Chrome fork is a puzzler though - maybe that's off another (older) frame?

[a lower gear]

Ask the designated Raleigh expert in the VCC?

[Fixedwheelnut]

 I have just aquired a TI Team Proffessional in 531C and traced the serial number via here as built May 1983 at Nottingham http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html 

[andrew w]

I have a Raleigh road bike made from tig-welded Reynolds Optima tubing - here it is:



It's badged as an M-Trax R300, but I had another one with the same frame (sold to clarion on this forum) that was badged as an M-Trax 8000RL.  The one I sold to Clarion was bought new by me in either 1997 or 1998, and the one I still have dates from the same era.  I've seen other comments to the effect that Optima was basically 501 tubing, but I have to say I'm sceptical about that.  My Optima frame is much lighter than any 501 frame I've ever seen, but maybe that's just a function of the tube thickness used on each particular frame.

Anyway, mine is a really nice bike to ride, and I still keep it,even though I've mostly sold out to carbon these days.  I can't remember the exact frame number of mine , but I'm pretty sure it starts with a G - I think it's G5115 or something like that.

[Woofage]

I have just aquired a TI Team Proffessional in 531C and traced the serial number via here as built May 1983 at Nottingham http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html 

So we have a couple of Gs, but that format is not listed in that page linked to. My frame, which I think is later, has the same number format but starts with a J. Here's a pic for reference:

[andrew w]

I have a Raleigh road bike made from tig-welded Reynolds Optima tubing - here it is:



It's badged as an M-Trax R300, but I had another one with the same frame (sold to clarion on this forum) that was badged as an M-Trax 8000RL.  The one I sold to Clarion was bought new by me in either 1997 or 1998, and the one I still have dates from the same era.  I've seen other comments to the effect that Optima was basically 501 tubing, but I have to say I'm sceptical about that.  My Optima frame is much lighter than any 501 frame I've ever seen, but maybe that's just a function of the tube thickness used on each particular frame.

Anyway, mine is a really nice bike to ride, and I still keep it,even though I've mostly sold out to carbon these days.  I can't remember the exact frame number of mine , but I'm pretty sure it starts with a G - I think it's G5115 or something like that.

Had a look at my Optima frame tonight - total brain fade - the frame number is actually H11164.  I would guess that the first letter is a year number, but I don't know the key to work out what year the letter represents. My guess would be that H is 1997, but I could be wrong.

Looking through old C+ magazines tonight I came across a review of the Optima-framed M-Trax 8000RL from C+ issue 52 from May 1996.  They were quite complimentary about it, as you can see from the following quotes:

The Raleigh's frame (size 54cm tested) is remarkably light at 1.78kg

Back in C+42 we were impressed by the Optima tubed frame of the Raleigh.  This year, little tweaks to the geometry have made the steering a little faster, making an already excellent frame a great one.  The frame is easily the best here (tested against a steel Trek and a steel Giant) and the Raleigh's frame-only price of £260 is exceptional value for money.

As stated in my original post, it's a lovely frame to ride, and the one I sold to clarion took me on the Raid Pyrenean, the Corsica Raid and the Alpine Raid in 1998, 1999 and 2000 respectively.  I only sold it because I managed to acquire the one pictured above in absolutely pristine condition.

[SteveS]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my request for information. Due to the considerable knowledge and experience of this forum I feel that I can now make an educated guess that my frame is a prototype M-Trax built in early 1996, the decals and the fork are not M-Trax stardards, but everything else appears to be. I have to agree with Andrew W about the lightness of the frame compared to other 501s, mine weighs the same as the Vitus 979 that it has replaced.
Practically it is a very comfortable ride, I did Blacksheep's March Madness last weekend and it glided over the rough old west country lanes on 23C tyres like I was sat in an armchair.
I can't think why I'd ever want to change this for carbon fibre, but that's another story...

[Brucey]

zombie thread, this, but I have just obtained a complete Dynatech MTB which is a dead ringer for Torslanda's red frame upthread;



Same frame as above, identical in every way AFAICT, including the daft 'chainstay bridge that isn't' (funny how that never caught on, isn't it not... ).

 However mine has a six element frame number, 'Fxxxxx' (where x are numbers). The components on the bike appear to be original to the bike, and comprise a near complete 'smokey' STX-RC 7s groupset, (including cantis) with a manufacturing date of December 1994.  This suggests  the frame as having been manufactured in 1995.

  If so, I'd propose that these RSP frame numbers perhaps go

F  = 1995
G = 1996
H = 1997
I = 1998
J = 1999

etc. I guess it is possible that they missed out 'I' because it looks too much like '1' , but until someone is able to confirm that or not we won't know for sure.

Interestingly my machine also came with a couple of unusual parts that I had not seen before;

1) an exact colour-matched welded steel stem; 130mm long, nicely TIG welded.
2) a set of Ti handlebars; flat with a ~3-degree crank, made from plain gauge  7/8" tube with an aluminium centre sleeve.

This is one of the lightest OTP steel MTB frames I have come across, and rides well. Unfortunately my frame also has a rather ominous-looking crack in the seat cluster....  .... so the welding set is coming out to play soon.... 

 This will also necessitate at least some paint.  Does anyone have a good match for this metallic red colour?

cheers

[Torslanda]

Frome memory there's a Peugeot colour fromthe late 90s used on 106 & 206 models that was a pretty close match. i don't have the code or the shade but a visit to your local car accessory shop should give you a massive stand full of aerosols to choose from.

[Brucey]

thanks for the suggestion, I think I may have seen a car or two in the colour you are thinking of, that gives me a starting point.

I was hoping that someone might have found a good matching colour for this paint; I've several times gone through a swatch book with ~30000 colours in it (which takes hours...) and it hasn't always done me any good...

cheers

[Gattopardo]

Try a car paint place with the paint scanner and they can tell you a match.

[Brucey]

that is a good idea, I'll have to find out which local bodyshops are so equipped.

cheers

[MOB]

Reading this thread and some good information as Optima was, as people have already said, basically rebadged 501 but for tig welding and it had 8 internal butts to add stiffness.

Raleigh Special Products produced 20,000 Reynolds steel, plasma arc welded titanium frames, Dyna-Tech, with some alu frames per year at the height of their production in the 1990's and they had such market presence they worked with Reynolds on exclusive tube sets: Optima was one of these as it was designed for Raleigh and only used by Raleigh in the 199O's; K2 on MTB's was another.  They also had custom butted titanium frames designed by IMI in Birmingham and plasma arc welded in Nottingham: by contrast, the vast bulk of titanium frames today are plain gauge.

As you can guess, I'm a big RSP fan and it was a crying shame that the unit closed and all that expertise either retired or moved to other bike firms, as well as cutting edge manufacturing ceasing,  Whyte's main designer is ex RSP for example.

Unfortunately, RSP's expertise was in high quality steel and titanium frames and a corporate decision was made to close and focus on the "cool " American Diamondback brand - utter lunacy.

That red Dyna-Tech is lovely although my favourite RSP models are the plasma arc welded titanium frames and the last generation Raleigh Randonneurs in Reynolds 708 with Magura hydraulic rim brakes and the RSP stainless steel head tube badge - lovely ride, both loaded up and especially unladen

[JonB]

Interesting thread, until recently I had 2 Optima tubed MTrax bikes (the second one didn't survive being hit by a car).  The first is an R400 and I've had it a couple of years.  I bought it from a second hand shop in Bristol and I'd be surprised if it had been ridden more than 50 miles. I've gradually changed components and there's not too much original left apart from the frame.  Bottom line is that it's a lovely bike to ride and it's seen me through some tough audax rides including the Elenydd and Brevet Cymru.

The second bike was probably a year or two earlier and was a 9000RL, came with Optima tubes but didn't have the straight blade forks like the R400, again a lovely bike to ride.  This was a size smaller and I decided to strip and powder coat as the paint was pretty distressed. Because it had horizontal drop outs I turned it into a  fixie project and it worked a treat, very light!!! Managed to get some mudguards in there and I rode the Cymraeg Cyrch 200km on it in November. However, later that month a car turned into me and wrecked it  and me, I should be alright but I'm afraid there's one less Optima out there.  Wouldn't mind another one and I keep my eyes on the bay for them ... fine bikes

The R400
20150704_092949 by Jon Banks, on Flickr

20150912_092345 by Jon Banks, on Flickr

The 9000RL (pre fixie)
20141109_124209 by Jon Banks, on Flickr

20141109_124218 by Jon Banks, on Flickr

The 9000RL fixed
20160126_204344 by Jon Banks, on Flickr

I won't show it post accident ... too distressing   

[Torslanda]

Must do something with the two DynaTech MTBs.

Anyone fancy a time warp retro MTB in red with full STX and Mavic 230 rims? I can throw in a 130mm Uno stem in purple . . .