700c forks for disk brakes and audax?

[CountrySickness]

After a few years of audax I now know what I want from my new bike and it includes disk brakes (reinforced on some wet Herefordshire hills on Monday).  Unfortunately various people in the know (including Dave Yates) have said custom steel forks and disk brakes are a good combination for snapped forks.

Most 700c and disk offerings appear to be very CX race-orientated carbon ones, so any recommendations for a comfy 700c fork for disk brakes that also fits mudguards? 

[welshwheels]

http://www.fatbirds.co.uk/18859/products/kinesis-dc37-cx-disc-cyclocross--touring--road-fork.aspx   these have a mudguard mount aswell       



not sore if you want carbon?   although carbon is comfortable

[CountrySickness]

Diolch, I did see them and rate the Kinesis bits I 've had but I always associate straight forks with an uncomfortable ride. It may be a foggy memory of my early 90s Raleigh Dynatech MTB that gives me that impression rather than the reality of 2012 kit though

[fuaran]

On-One Pompetamine or Planet-X Kaffenback? They are steel, and pretty cheap.

[redshift]

Kona do a version of the P2 for 700c - I have disks on the Hewitt, and Andrij of this parish had a similar one built recently, but I can't remember if he has the same forks.  Plenty of room for mudguards (and dynohub, etc.etc).

[Sergeant Pluck]

Road forks have been slow to catch up, in general, so a lot of the 700c disc forks are cyclocross or touring orientated, with probably more clearance than needed for Audax purposes.

Surly 700c Disc Trucker - steel touring fork with all the braze ons, huge clearances.
Cotic X carbon fork (this has both disc and V-brake mounts)
Evolution A647, full carbon, versions for 32 and 25 tyres:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/forks-carbon-dept262_pg1/?src=froogle

I reckon carbon is the future for such forks. It is difficult to make a steel fork that is strong enough for a disc without making the whole fork overly heavy, whereas with carbon it is (I speculate) easier to make something that flexes in the direction needed for a comfortable ride, but that won't flex in the direction that the disc calipers act in.*



* May be total cobblers.

[Euan Uzami]

my bike has these forks, i've always found them excellent

[Andrew Br]

I've got 3 different disc forks on my bikes.

The comfiest is the Kinesis DC19 on my tourer:-


12-05-10 Tension Seeker Enigma by Chocolatebike1, on Flickr

I've got 35mm tyres on there and the clearance is OK despite Arvid's reservations.
I don't think that this fork is available any more but the DC37 linked to above looks similar.

My light bike has one of these forks:-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mr-ride-2012-TRIGON-FULL-3K-CARBON-RIGID-MTB-XC-Disc-FORK-26-490g-UK-/330770924471?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item4d037bc3b7#ht_3035wt_952

It's considerably lighter than the DC19 but also harsher and it's difficult to fit mud-guards, probably because it's designed for MTBs.

The third fork I have is a Kona P2. It's steel, it's heavy and it's harsh compared to the other two. Pluses are that it's cheap, has lots of clearance and fitting guards is easy.

[Sergeant Pluck]

I also think the Salsa La Cruz looks like a decent design - I like the orientation of the dropouts:

http://www.tritoncycles.co.uk/m4b104s29p7093/SALSA_La_Cruz_Forks/RS_GB

Compare that with the fork on the Genesis Croix de Fer for instance, in which the dropouts seem to be aligned in the worst possible direction.

Having said that, I have yet to detect any signs of wheel movement on the disc fork that I am currently using, which is very similar to the Surly one above.

I cannot understand why the disc cannot routinely be on the right, as per Cotic. As well as making sense in terms of axle movement, right sided mounting makes mudguard fitting etc a lot easier. 

The ideal is probably a through-bolt axle, and I expect to see more of these for road use and indeed better calipers and levers as time goes on. The BB7 is badly in need of an upgrade.

[tiermat]

I have the On-One ones on my InBred 29er.

Pros - take a load of road buzz out of the ride
LOADS of clearance

Cons - Disc only, so no chance of fitting Vs then progressing onto disc
LOADS of clearance, so fitting mudguards is a challenge.

They look like this:

[CountrySickness]

Thanks for the responses , that's a lot more choice than my google searches cam eup with.

The thing (pseudoscience?) of carbon forks being more easily able to put the material in the right places seems to win it for me too.  As comfort is key (along with not snapping) the Kinesis DC19 seemed to be a clear winner with Chocolatebike's recommendation, sadly it appears to be discontinued and not in stock anywhere Maybe the DC37 is the direct replacement but not in stock until mid-Oct  but I guess as I haven't paid my deposit for the frame yet so the brazing torch won't be lit until after then anyway.

[frankly frankie]

I've got those Trigon forks as linked above on a hard-tail MTB used as a tourer.  Mine have posts as well as disk mounts. 
Like most MTB rigid forks they are long-legged, replicating the typical suspension fork geometry, as such they are only suitable for MTB frames IMO.

[tiermat]

Good point, Frankie, obviously the InBred 29er is designed with MTB geometry, so those forks would be useless, or near enough useless on a "normal" road bike.  They would raise the front end and change the steerer angle so making the bike a nightmare to ride.

[CountrySickness]

Good point, Frankie, obviously the InBred 29er is designed with MTB geometry, so those forks would be useless, or near enough useless on a "normal" road bike.  They would raise the front end and change the steerer angle so making the bike a nightmare to ride.

I was pondering going for 29er forks with a fillet brazed frame to allow the frame angles to get around the handling issues, but it would have been a case of the tail wagging the dog so stuck to searching for true 700c forks. I've emailed Kinesis in the hope that a pair of DC19s are kicking around somewhere.

[Rig of Jarkness]

Our Landescape tandem has carbon forks with disks.



Supplied by http://www.bicycles-by-design.co.uk

I'm sure they could sort you out with some forks.

[MacB]

I have the Salsa La Cruz disc fork on my road bike and it's very comfy, 395mm AtoC and 45mm rake. My tourer will have the Surly LHT disc forks, 390mm AtoC and 45mm rake - the LHT has bigger clearances, 700x45 v 700x40.

Seargeant Pluck makes a good point about the future of road disc forks but there are other options to consider:-

the flip side mounting as per Cotic - doesn't really seem to have caught on

LHT style and similar - so staying with thinner curved blades but using a lengthened disc tab so that the forces are spread much further on the fork leg and greatly reduces spot loading. I know Alex Whetmore added disc tabs to a standard steel road fork by having the braze on part of the tabs about 2/3 the length of the fork leg.

twin calipers - though I hope this doesn't catch on

If you look at the evolution of rear disc brake mounting, seatstay, then seatstay with added brace, dropout, then between the stays/low rider to use chainstay rather than seatstay and then that but mounted via dropouts rather than frame.

If you have a specific idea in mind, and want steel, then you can get some custom made and I would recommend Walt Wehner of Waltworks in the US as he specialises in forks. also he isn't unreasonably expensive, approx $300.

[Andrew Br]

Thanks for the responses , that's a lot more choice than my google searches cam eup with.

The thing (pseudoscience?) of carbon forks being more easily able to put the material in the right places seems to win it for me too.  As comfort is key (along with not snapping) the Kinesis DC19 seemed to be a clear winner with Chocolatebike's recommendation, sadly it appears to be discontinued and not in stock anywhere Maybe the DC37 is the direct replacement but not in stock until mid-Oct  but I guess as I haven't paid my deposit for the frame yet so the brazing torch won't be lit until after then anyway.

Have you tried this lot ?

http://sprockets.uk.com/kinesis-dc19-carbon-road-or-cyclo-cross-disc-bike-forks/

It could be that their web-site isn't up to date but it's surely worth a 'phone call.

(Usual disclaimers..........)

[Dave_C]

Now looking for new Carbon Disk Forks, 700cc, after mine broke:



What was it someone said above about carbon forks not breaking?? ;o)

I have found some which look identical to the OEM supplied with the Cotic >X<,

PZ Racing CR6.1

I also see Kinesis sell DC37 Carbon forks but I'm not sure about the clearance for wider winter snow tyres I use from Nov - Mar.

I think I'll go for the near identical forks as I know they are the same as the broken forks above, and I'll just have to be more careful as I rip through the local country estates tracks on my way to and from work <

[vorsprung]

After a few years of audax I now know what I want from my new bike and it includes disk brakes (reinforced on some wet Herefordshire hills on Monday).  Unfortunately various people in the know (including Dave Yates) have said custom steel forks and disk brakes are a good combination for snapped forks.

I don't understand this.  My Karate Monkey forks are steel, they have disk brakes and they are not going to snap.

Surely all the "custom forks" have to do is add a huge amount of material and they will be as strong as an offroad fork and they..won't ...snap?

If you habitually ride audax on horrible scroggy lanes then I suppose disk brakes might be nice.  I tend to avoid events like that.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Mr Yates didn't say that.

He said he wouldn't build forks for discs, because the loadings are increased, he's not familiar with them and for him to make a fork he'd be happy to certify, it would be like a girder.

I have steel forks on my genesis and I'm perfectly happy with them.

Now - Dave_C's carbon forks look very very wrong to me. There's no evidence of any carbon weave in the fracture.  I strongly suspect absolutely *sh!t* product control there, with the layup not being done properly.
If I were Dave, I'd be emailing that photo to the manufacturers, asking if this failure mode is to be expected and hinting that replacement forks should be supplied.

[Efrogwr]

...
Now - Dave_C's carbon forks look very very wrong to me. There's no evidence of any carbon weave in the fracture.  I strongly suspect absolutely *sh!t* product control there, with the layup not being done properly.
If I were Dave, I'd be emailing that photo to the manufacturers, asking if this failure mode is to be expected and hinting that replacement forks should be supplied.

What mrcharly says is certainly possible. Another possibility is that the fork crown is aluminium and that the bond has failed.

[tiermat]

One thing I found, when looking at such things, is that the suspension corrected forks for 26" wheels (for 80-100mm travel) have the same A-t-C distance as a set of 700C forks (or are near enough for it not to make any difference).

If you are tough on forks, then maybe some of these would do the job nicely?

http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FOOOCAR/on_one_carbon_fork

I still love the ones (in 29er size) on my Inbred, moreso now I am using it for commuting which includes a few miles across fields and tow paths.

[Chris N]

One thing I found, when looking at such things, is that the suspension corrected forks for 26" wheels (for 80-100mm travel) have the same A-t-C distance as a set of 700C forks (or are near enough for it not to make any difference).

If you are tough on forks, then maybe some of these would do the job nicely?

http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FOOOCAR/on_one_carbon_fork

I still love the ones (in 29er size) on my Inbred, moreso now I am using it for commuting which includes a few miles across fields and tow paths.

I wouldn't like to swap the 380mm A-C forks on my existing audax bike for ones 60mm longer - approx 1° change in head angle and the bars come up around 55mm.

[tiermat]

I have just noticed that myself, Chris.

The Exotic ones (I think) that I looked at were 385mm A-t-C, and labelled as 26" 100mm travel.

I shall see if I can dig out the table that refers.

ETA: http://www.carboncycles.cc/?s=0&t=2&c=43&p=1036&

I see from that it is 0mm correction, so designed for 26" bikes that are designed for rigid forks, which makes sense as a 26" wheel with a 2" tyre is near as dammit is to swearing the same size (rolling diameter)as a 700C with 23mm tyres.

[MacB]

based on use of Bikecad then every 20mm of fork length equates to 1 degree of angle change, so 60mm longer would decrease HT/ST angles by 3 degrees, it would also lift the bottom bracket.

To fit a full 29er tyre with reasonable clearance I reckon an AtoC of 415mm would be about the shortest you could go. At 450mm you can have clearance all the way up to a 29x3"....I know as my custom set arrived this morning.

You also need to consider the offset, 26" forks will generally have a lower offset number which will increase the trail number. For example the ones that I've just received are:-

450mm AtoC and 50mm offset whereas a 26" version might be in the range 38-41mm offset.

So you could be getting a double whammy where the lower offset of the 26" forks increases the trail and so does the longer AtoC giving the slacker HTA.

Whether this bothers you or would become unrideable in some way I have no idea, but it would make for very slow handling.