Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: inappropriate_bike on 11 November, 2018, 12:06:32 pm

Title: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 11 November, 2018, 12:06:32 pm
I've volunteered to captain a group for this, for the first time.

I've read The Rules and some previous forum threads. But I'm hoping if I can ask some clarification questions.

1. If some of the team aren't AUK members, can I pay for temporary mebership when I send in the forms?
2. I think the minimum set of controls is start, 22hr, finish. Is that right?
3. Is distance calculated based on Google Maps Walking Mode between the controls? Or is there another way to measure it?
4. Is there a DIYxGPS style option to validate based on a fixed-route instead?
5. Does anyone have suggestions for nice routes North from central London that don't go through Epping Forest?
6. Are supported stops (e.g. at family homes en-route) allowed?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Smeth on 11 November, 2018, 12:26:57 pm
In part..
2. Better to specify more controls at the usual sort of spacing or you will end up riding excessive over distance. You can use the intermediates to add interest and adjust claimed distance.
3. Yes Gmaps to walking is (or at least has recently been) the starting point for measurement but if that results In ploughed fields you could justify and point this out. However this involves the org doing work, so in the past I've just made it work to gmaps walking and accepted the over distance for a nice route as a fair trade.
4. No

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Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 11 November, 2018, 12:34:05 pm
1. I believe so but megajoulesexpenditure is the one who knows.
6. Yes, though some hairshirt types might hurrumpf about it. I ignore them.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: bairn again on 11 November, 2018, 01:07:41 pm
Like Christmas, this seems to get earlier and earlier every year!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: j_a_m_e_s_ on 11 November, 2018, 02:25:42 pm
Like Christmas, this seems to get earlier and earlier every year!
And it's quite a late one this year too.

Proper preparation and all that.

Quote
6) Are supported stops (e.g. at family homes en-route) allowed?

Specifically, would this be okay as a control point. Or would we still need an ATM receipt or some such?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 11 November, 2018, 02:38:47 pm
5. You could always work your way up to Hertfiord via Cuffley or Cheshunt.  Some nice roads up that way.  Then aim for Cambridge or Bedford if you want to go further West. Plenty of quiet lanes (that are reasonably direct) to choose from.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Smeth on 11 November, 2018, 02:52:26 pm


6) Are supported stops (e.g. at family homes en-route) allowed?

Specifically, would this be okay as a control point. Or would we still need an ATM receipt or some such?
[/quote]

You each need a proof that you were all at a place at a particular time. There is info that a timed photo Pof P would be accepted exceptionally but I think this is aimed at the 22 hour or end controls If you end up in the middle of nowhere missing your plan A with no alternative. It's not that difficult to just do it the standard way.

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Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 11 November, 2018, 03:28:27 pm


6) Are supported stops (e.g. at family homes en-route) allowed?

Specifically, would this be okay as a control point. Or would we still need an ATM receipt or some such?

You each need a proof that you were all at a place at a particular time. There is info that a timed photo Pof P would be accepted exceptionally but I think this is aimed at the 22 hour or end controls If you end up in the middle of nowhere missing your plan A with no alternative. It's not that difficult to just do it the standard way.

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[/quote]On a practical note, if you don't tell who knows?

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Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: toontra on 11 November, 2018, 05:26:00 pm
5. You could always work your way up to Hertfiord via Cuffley or Cheshunt.  Some nice roads up that way.  Then aim for Cambridge or Bedford if you want to go further West. Plenty of quiet lanes (that are reasonably direct) to choose from.
Agreed.  No need to go anywhere near Epping Road (unless you want to add mileage by going NE).  Hertford or thereabouts is going to give you the nicest routes and from then on you are on lanes.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: aidan.f on 11 November, 2018, 11:12:22 pm
Try to arrange some A road Kms through the night. Lots of dark lanes, potholes and faffing is not much fun. Remember main roads will be quieter than usual overnight.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 14 November, 2018, 06:54:09 am
Try to arrange some A road Kms through the night. Lots of dark lanes, potholes and faffing is not much fun. Remember main roads will be quieter than usual overnight.
Yep. My routes always avoid small lanes at night, but go for decent B roads most of the way.

BB
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: L CC on 14 November, 2018, 10:31:44 am
Specifically, would this be okay as a control point. Or would we still need an ATM receipt or some such?

We've used a stamp & signature in the past, as per any other manned event.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 03 December, 2018, 02:16:52 pm
As a newbie to this, please could I check whether or not the 'roolz' on start times are negotiable?
"START TIMES. Teams may start from Friday 06:00 to Saturday 10:00hrs."
I read elsewhere that some teams have chosen to start on Thursday evening, allowing an arrival at York for supper and a bed, with a (cross country) train back to Exeter (say) on (Easter) Saturday morning/midday. Have the rules been changed to stop this?
We are in the route planning stage (down here in East Devon) and the time of start (and therefore which long section we'd be riding in the wee hours) will have an effect on our route planning/choices. We don't want to risk a Sunday train journey which a Friday evening start implies.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: oggy on 03 December, 2018, 03:03:56 pm
As a newbie to this, please could I check whether or not the 'roolz' on start times are negotiable?
"START TIMES. Teams may start from Friday 06:00 to Saturday 10:00hrs."
I read elsewhere that some teams have chosen to start on Thursday evening, allowing an arrival at York for supper and a bed, with a (cross country) train back to Exeter (say) on (Easter) Saturday morning/midday. Have the rules been changed to stop this?
We are in the route planning stage (down here in East Devon) and the time of start (and therefore which long section we'd be riding in the wee hours) will have an effect on our route planning/choices. We don't want to risk a Sunday train journey which a Friday evening start implies.

Yes those are the start times as per ACP rules

however some teams do start on thursday night and this is for some historical reason.

You would have to check with the organiser as to what times you will be allowed to start.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 21 December, 2018, 05:20:48 pm
AUK website rules
http://www.aukweb.net/events/arrows/
"DISTANCES. At least 360km must be covered during the 24 hours but you should plan more e.g. 400k or 500k as your target.
The team will be validated if the actual distance covered is within 20% above or below the one stated before the ride (with an absolute minimum of 360km) E.g. if you plan a 450km route the team must ride between 360 and 540km"
The distance of an arrow is defined by its start place, its controls and its intended end-place (which may or may not be York) aiui.
A group plans a 410km route (distance as per Google walking).
Please could some cognoscenti explain or describe in practice (save discussions on cadences for another thread) how a group rides a distance further than the planned route (by up to 20%)? In practice, with a  stonking tailwind (here's hoping), the group finds itself further north (coming from the SW, say) than expected. Does the (zealous) group just divert to Spalding (say) - not a designated control and then (zig-)zag back towards York? Does the group nominate to the organiser various cunning diversion wheezes in case more distance is possible within the allotted 24 hours?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 21 December, 2018, 05:47:08 pm
I'd always assumed, but never asked, that, on the assumption that Goole was my 22 hour control, if I had a stonking tailwind and arrived there 2 - 3 hours early, I'd ride a loop, say Goole - Selby - Eggborough - Goole to add 50km. 

But, as it turned out, when we did have a stonking tailwind we just had a 90 minute sleep stop at Grantham services and another doze at Goole and rode our planned route.

There's usually a gathering at a 'spoons at 9am which encourages a 9am start time. 

If you hail from the South and are brave enough, plan to ride 30km down to Howden and book a Hull Trains trip back to London.  It cost me the princely sum of £12 a couple of years ago, although my progress into the wind from York to Howden after a 24 hour ride, a huge breakfast washed down with mild, was somewhat laboured.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: CrazyEnglishTriathlete on 21 December, 2018, 05:48:07 pm
PS.  If anyone wants a diesel to tow them along for a bit and are thinking about a start west of London I'd be happy to join a team.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: tiermat on 21 December, 2018, 06:51:23 pm
Any teams passing through NTR are more than welcome to stop off at the new! Improved! THoFC!

The builders have now finished and we have underfloor heating, the ability to block off noise from other parts of the house and a downstairs loo.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 21 December, 2018, 10:16:32 pm
Sunset at Market Harborough is 2008.
http://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=52.477600,-0.920530¢er=52.4776,-0.9205&z=18&spn=0.00,0.00&dt=20190419222900%2B0100
Best of all - with the clear sky we're bound to get in late April - the full full moon is 'up' from sunset to an hour after sunrise.
Sunrise at Thorne is 0553.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: vorsprung on 28 December, 2018, 06:42:39 pm
Looks like I might be joining a team again this time
Four other people from the pub have expressed an interest
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: mattc on 28 December, 2018, 07:04:39 pm
Looks like I might be joining a team again this time
Four other people from the pub have expressed an interest

That's a pretty high-risk selection strategy  :o

I shall drink to your success!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 29 December, 2018, 10:34:03 am
Looks like I might be joining a team again this time
Four other people from the pub have expressed an interest

That's a pretty high-risk selection strategy  :o

I shall drink to your success!
;D ;D  :thumbsup: We all will.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 02 January, 2019, 02:50:05 pm
Are we allowed to change the route away from your planned controls?

E.g. we get half way and decide we are knackered. So instead of going West (to the hills) we turn East (more direct and flat). Instead of controlling at WestTown, we control at EastTown, then continue to our 22hr control.

(In this case both West and East routes are >360km by Google Walking, but only if WestTown or EastTown is used as a control respectively.)
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 January, 2019, 02:54:41 pm
Generally not. You continue along your notified route/ controls as far as you can get within the time allowed. You can bail at the 24hr mark.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 02 January, 2019, 05:39:03 pm
Generally not. You continue along your notified route/ controls as far as you can get within the time allowed. You can bail at the 24hr mark.
What does a team do when it makes good time and gets to York at 22 hours? I assume that an impromptu excursion to 'somewhere' at least 13km away where one can get a PoP and back
"The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour. If proof of passage is not available at that point they must continue riding to the next available place where it may be obtained. This does not have to be York, it can be on the way to York.
A minimum of 25km must be ridden between the 22nd hour control point and the finish."
The rules require that at least 25k is ridden between wherever is used for a control in the 22nd hour and the 24 hour moment/location.
How (adhering to the rules) can teams arrive at York before 24 hours has elapsed from the time they started (even if they've ridden at least the required 25km)?
I appreciate that this is a rather 'Germanic' approach to (essentially) French rules which are meant to be followed in a 'French' ;) way. I am not taking a 'pop' at the rules; just trying to understand what's what.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 January, 2019, 06:17:47 pm
If they arrive at their destination too early, teams normally ride an additional out and back.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: quixoticgeek on 02 January, 2019, 07:38:33 pm
If they arrive at their destination too early, teams normally ride an additional out and back.

How is proof of passage done for this? Can it be validated by GPX?

J
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 02 January, 2019, 08:18:02 pm
Talk to the organiser about that. I've had great arrow organisers and occasionally others that were distinctly not and rejected homologation of valid rides. Most are pragmatic.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 08 January, 2019, 10:43:23 am
If they arrive at their destination too early, teams normally ride an additional out and back.
How is proof of passage done for this? Can it be validated by GPX?
I think the psychological challenge of riding to York all day and overnight and then "riding an additional 'out and back'" in the morning (York) rush hour would be too great for me and, with more relevance, test the hardened of groups' dynamics. On the other hand a diversion a bit earlier when extraordinarily (wind-assisted) good progress was evident and motivating seems what the rules expect.

But the unplanned nature of an additional excursion is the nub of the (organisational/leader's) challenge. With a few hours to go, if we are ahead of (self-imposed) schedule, I want to have a plan, for example: Thorne is 48k from York (shortest). A possible diversion to add distance is, from Selby, to go via Wetherby (assured PoP) and come in on the Rufforth road. That's 80k - so 32k more.
But I'm not going to include Wetherby on my planned route, because we need to get to York for breakfast (9am say).
If the solution to this is a 'talk to the organiser' mantra, then has someone done this in the past and what was the organiser's advice? Or do teams never try to claim extra distance that they've enjoyed riding, further (up to 20%) ride more than they've planned? (in which case why the 'above' rule? Or is this a 'French' thing?

On the GPX side the rules say:
"5. CONTROLS Each team member shall obtain proof of passage at the starting point and each designated control in the form of a stamp, ATM or till receipt."
I don't think any proof by GPX is part of an Easter Arrow. Or if it is (and a team is (all team members are) prepared to rely on their little machines for 24 hours of recording) why not say this (in the rules)?

"3. DISTANCES. At least 360km must be covered during the 24 hours but you should plan more e.g. 400k or 500k as your target.
The team will be validated if the actual distance covered is within 20% above or below the one stated before the ride (with an absolute minimum of 360km) E.g. if you plan a 450km route the team must ride between 360 and 540km."
I'm assuming the "actual distance covered" (see #3 above) is the shortest route by cycle (assessed by whatever is the current flavour of 'app') between the start and the planned finish, via specified controls, not the bicycling meanderings of a random route. For example from the KFC in Retford to the McD at Goole services, the route via Thorne is 53k. You can go via Crowle (which would be 60k) but if those are the two controls the 'credit' (assessed distance) is 53k.

Less than 15 weeks to go now :) It's balmy and the sun is trying to break through even, today down in Devon.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 08 January, 2019, 10:54:32 am
Believe what you like about what the Arrow rules intend. My first Arrow was in 1993 and I've done more than a dozen of them in three countries for at least seven organisers and I've been an Arrow organiser myself in another country. The current Easter Arrow organiser hasn't been doing this event for a huge number of years so any experience with previous organisers is accordingly pretty meaningless. Some Arrow organisers might allow mid-route additions but most don't and the rules aren't set up to encourage them. Very few British teams do additional distance, so there isn't much in the way of precedents to follow.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: psyclist on 08 January, 2019, 11:25:59 am
Re distance covered, it is the 'walking distance' between your control points using Google Maps that I have used previously to determine the minimum distance.

As far as I am aware, all validation must be via physical proof (receipts etc) or photographic evidence if other options are not available. GPX validation is not allowed.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 08 January, 2019, 04:01:44 pm
Believe what you like about what the Arrow rules intend. My first Arrow was in 1993 and I've done more than a dozen of them in three countries for at least seven organisers and I've been an Arrow organiser myself in another country. The current Easter Arrow organiser hasn't been doing this event for a huge number of years so any experience with previous organisers is accordingly pretty meaningless. Some Arrow organisers might allow mid-route additions but most don't and the rules aren't set up to encourage them. Very few British teams do additional distance, so there isn't much in the way of precedents to follow.
Thank you for that insight, clearly from massive and broad experience. My problem is I don't know what to believe "about what the Arrow rules intend" with regard to the over distance aspect. Under-distance is straightforward (mustn't be more than 20% under the planned route and say where you are at 24 hours and get a proof up the road as soon as possible).

Over distance? Get to York by 22 hours, say. Then what? Ride another 25k out and back, finding a PoP at the 'turn'.
"The team must ride until the end of the 24th hour."
"A minimum of 25km must be ridden between the 22nd hour control point and the finish."
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 08 January, 2019, 05:34:39 pm
The team must ride till the end of the 24th hour is a French-ism, as is 'No rest stop longer than 2 hours'. Most folk stop for as long as they wish, get PoP 25-30km away at the 22hr point and just ride to the finish. Ride >=25km within the last 2 hours is standard worldwide.

Usually teams do their distance and if they wish to ride further and have time to do so, then they usually do an additional out and back, though they could just continue in a straight line. They don't have to finish at York. Given the finish is a weekend morning, traffic usually isn't too bad. For details as to what route/ PoP/ etc. that is acceptable to the current Arrow organiser for overdistance rides, you need to ask her.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revellinho on 08 January, 2019, 05:48:51 pm
If your team really wants to go for it you should plan a distance that is probably greater than you can reasonably expect.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: slugbait on 08 January, 2019, 08:59:34 pm
In my experience, the main thing is that your proposed route is at least 360 km and you ride at least 25 km in the last two hours. So at my last Arrow, we had a route that was 380 km (minimum walking distance between our designated controls) and we had our eyes set on a bakery 30 km before the finish. We arrived at the bakery 21 hours and 30 minutes after the start, had a decent breakfast, and cycled to the finish location (arriving 20 mins early). No need for loops or out-and-backs, just proper planning.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 08 January, 2019, 10:22:53 pm
I've been up on distance twice (including for a 500km total) and down three times but all within the allowable tolerances. The rest have hit their targets, which has generally been fairly modest (361-435km from memory). Nothing wrong with aiming at an ambitious target or a modest one and nothing wrong with boosting beyond targets or falling a shade short. It is done for fun after all.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: mattc on 09 January, 2019, 09:14:22 am
I've been up on distance twice (including for a 500km total) and down three times but all within the allowable tolerances.
Life is clearly a lot simpler if you aim for 500km - the 20% tolerance is then exactly 100km. That's a lot easier to remember, and no stressing about one's mental arithmetic  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: rob on 09 January, 2019, 09:22:21 am
We used to have a 400k planned route with a shortcut that would do the minimum 360k.   We could then take the shorter option if conditions or legs dictated.

At least a couple of times we just went with the min distance and didn't care about the points.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 09 January, 2019, 09:35:01 am
Sure but what was acceptable to a previous organiser might not be to the current one. HK's preferred arrow route used to have a 300km straight line with no intermediate controls (so no need to lose time every 80km). That got knocked on the head when a new organiser came in.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: rob on 09 January, 2019, 10:03:33 am
Sure but what was acceptable to a previous organiser might not be to the current one. HK's preferred arrow route used to have a 300km straight line with no intermediate controls (so no need to lose time every 80km). That got knocked on the head when a new organiser came in.

Actually it's quite a long time since I last did one.   I think my Mum got less receptive to riders turning up late on Good Friday, eating her food and sleeping on the longe floor.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: quixoticgeek on 09 January, 2019, 11:30:02 am

I'm trying to make sense of how the controls work.

Say you had a route from London to York, with controls, that is exactly 360km (humour me for now). There's a stonking tail wind, so you end up in York with 4 hours still to go. So you decide to have a cup of tea, a fry up, and then do an out and back of 12.5km to a village outside York that has a shop you can get a receipt at. The wind is great, and you end up doing that, and still have an over an hour of the final 2 to go. So you do another out and back to another village. With a shop. Repeat until you've done your 25km in the last 2 hours.

When signing up for this, would you have: Start control (London), Intermediate controls 1,2,3, 'end' Control York, additional control of village a, village b, village c, etc...

How do you do the controls for an Arror where you want to actually finish up at York, without having to keep riding past it, and end up riding for considerably more than the 24 hours ?

J
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: mattc on 09 January, 2019, 11:32:23 am
I believe you only submit the controls for your declared distance.

I expect most people plan their options, but you could completely wing it on the day - the organiser doesn't need to know, either way.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: rob on 09 January, 2019, 11:40:35 am
The last time we had a massive tailwind we had longer stops and ate more.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jiberjaber on 09 January, 2019, 11:59:52 am
I find the Arrow one of the hardest events because we always aim for 4 points and as a result it turns into a 24hr over distance 400km. Last year we even thought (in the pub) that a hillyier version would be a great idea!

But surely there's is no need at all to arrive in York (or your end control in the direction of York) so early as to need an out & back (which wont count for additional distance/points anyway!)... you just need to know your open & closing times for your controls and burn time / reduce faff based on getting to the penultimate and final controls with a small buffer 15-30mins or so.

After a couple of years at this, I think the key to a good arrow is getting a selection of controls which give 400km walking but with the minimum of overdistance when you plot the route to be ridden.

Luckily our team captain is spreadsheet el-suprimo  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: arabella on 09 January, 2019, 07:47:32 pm
One of the arrows I organised had a nice tailwind, so we were well ahead of ourselves at the point at which one of us had a deflation.  By the time we'd sorted it we were all a mite chilly, and ended up killing time and warming up in a hotel reception.  they kindly fed us tea and crisps too!
Another time I planned in an out and back just in case.  We didn't use it!
Unless you're trying to win, having a schedule and (knowing where to) kill time is probably simpler
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 10 January, 2019, 10:30:05 am
I find the Arrow one of the hardest events because we always aim for 4 points and as a result it turns into a 24hr over distance 400km. Last year we even thought (in the pub) that a hillyier version would be a great idea!
But surely there's is no need at all to arrive in York (or your end control in the direction of York) so early as to need an out & back (which wont count for additional distance/points anyway!)... you just need to know your open & closing times for your controls and burn time / reduce faff based on getting to the penultimate and final controls with a small buffer 15-30mins or so.
After a couple of years at this, I think the key to a good arrow is getting a selection of controls which give 400km walking but with the minimum of overdistance when you plot the route to be ridden.
Luckily our team captain is spreadsheet el-suprimo  :thumbsup:
Aiming for 4+ points seems entirely sensible (ie plan a route of over 400k).
"There's is no need at all to arrive in York", but ("believe what you like") an element of the spirit of the Easter Arrow is to meet up with other teams at York (and I'm working on Saturday breakfast time as the RV/time). So one doesn't need to set the finish as York, but seems sensible to get there, be sociable hopefully (and allows an easy and attractive solution (railway) to the logistics of recovery to home/start for many). For assurance, rail tickets need buying and cycle places need reserving, so even if we don't reach York in 24 hours, we'll be riding on there to see if anyone's still in the pub and to catch our trains.
A factor in the assessment of the likely location at 21-22 hours and the choice of finish will be the requirement to get a PoP. There will be more options the later a team starts, as 21-22 hours will be when a greater range (geographically) shops etc are open (for PoP).
"I think the key to a good arrow is getting a selection of controls which give 400km walking but with the minimum of overdistance when you plot the route to be ridden." Beautifully put. Together with sensible road choice (time of day/night dependent), avoiding gratuitous climbing, and an achievable but stretch target distance finishing in York, my route has the 'minimum extra distance' criterion as a key consideration. Currently I'm less than 1.8% over with 4 intermediate controls.


Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 10 January, 2019, 10:49:02 am
The French prioritise the maximum possible distance for each team, so squeezing out every additional kilometre is considered admirable there. The Brits often focus on the number of points, so there is cluster of just over 400km or just over 500km. The Aussies tend to either scrape over the minimum 360km or a few push for big distances with not many teams in between.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jiberjaber on 10 January, 2019, 11:47:21 am
I find the Arrow one of the hardest events because we always aim for 4 points and as a result it turns into a 24hr over distance 400km. Last year we even thought (in the pub) that a hillyier version would be a great idea!
But surely there's is no need at all to arrive in York (or your end control in the direction of York) so early as to need an out & back (which wont count for additional distance/points anyway!)... you just need to know your open & closing times for your controls and burn time / reduce faff based on getting to the penultimate and final controls with a small buffer 15-30mins or so.
After a couple of years at this, I think the key to a good arrow is getting a selection of controls which give 400km walking but with the minimum of overdistance when you plot the route to be ridden.
Luckily our team captain is spreadsheet el-suprimo  :thumbsup:
Aiming for 4+ points seems entirely sensible (ie plan a route of over 400k).
"There's is no need at all to arrive in York", but ("believe what you like") an element of the spirit of the Easter Arrow is to meet up with other teams at York (and I'm working on Saturday breakfast time as the RV/time). So one doesn't need to set the finish as York, but seems sensible to get there, be sociable hopefully (and allows an easy and attractive solution (railway) to the logistics of recovery to home/start for many). For assurance, rail tickets need buying and cycle places need reserving, so even if we don't reach York in 24 hours, we'll be riding on there to see if anyone's still in the pub and to catch our trains.
A factor in the assessment of the likely location at 21-22 hours and the choice of finish will be the requirement to get a PoP. There will be more options the later a team starts, as 21-22 hours will be when a greater range (geographically) shops etc are open (for PoP).
"I think the key to a good arrow is getting a selection of controls which give 400km walking but with the minimum of overdistance when you plot the route to be ridden." Beautifully put. Together with sensible road choice (time of day/night dependent), avoiding gratuitous climbing, and an achievable but stretch target distance finishing in York, my route has the 'minimum extra distance' criterion as a key consideration. Currently I'm less than 1.8% over with 4 intermediate controls.

I think we broadly agree but with one clarification, the full context of "There's is no need at all to arrive in York" in my original post was pointing out that with appropriate planning there should be no need to add an out and back to burn time on arrival at York..... I am certainly not suggesting don't bother aiming for York as I agree, part of the fun is comparing war stories over a beer at the end  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: mattc on 10 January, 2019, 12:20:16 pm
Do we have to aim for York?

Last time I read the regs, it said something like " ... must ride towards York." So I asked if you could start in somewhere sunny like West Africa, with a flat tail-windy 600km stretch pointed towards York. Then submit a route which finishes many 100s of km from York.

I don't recall getting an answer! The question seems relevant if you live 450km from York.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 10 January, 2019, 02:02:11 pm
Quite a few French teams start from further away than they will be able to achieve within 24hrs. In their case, the cards have to be physically handed over at the finish location by the team captain on the day, which limits 'extracting the urine' in the method you suggest.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: markldn on 10 January, 2019, 02:50:56 pm
If anyone is looking for another team member, or reservist—if that's possible—I could be convinced.  I live in London and have a mate is Manchester who could also be convinced.  I am a semi-experienced cyclist.  What does that mean?  I don't know but here is my CV:

I cycle 21km into work and back 3-4 times a week though upping this to 4-5 as I start training for PBP with longer rides at the weekend.  One 200km done to date in Oct 2018 (9 hours on the bike but with lots of stops to wait for a friend) with more scheduled before Easter.  In summer of 2017 I cycled coast to coast across Canada in 90 days.  Well-kept 1980s steel bike.  I have yet to calculate an average speed but I would say endurance is more my thing over speed and wouldn't be confident with a team shooting for, say, 500km.  Drop me a line though with whatever your doing if in need of another.

Mark
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 17 January, 2019, 05:44:40 pm
My Easter Arrow team is formed.  The start and 22nd hour control decided plus I have an outline route in mind.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 21 January, 2019, 03:34:23 pm
Just copying this across (which answers a question about the 'actual' (as opposed to rules) start time window I posed on here a month ago)
Just a note for you all before anyone gets to far into planning. I've check[ed] in with Martin, this years organiser and no Thursday night start available this year. Sticking to the published rules of 'Teams may start from Friday 06:00 to Saturday 10:00hrs.'
We are starting after breakfast Friday and look forward to our Saturday breakfast in York. Ours is a 'Wednesdays pub team'. Coming up to the '12 weeks to go' point.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: mattc on 21 January, 2019, 07:53:02 pm
... followed by this excellent response:
Hmmmm, my planned route assumed a Thursday start. Could always start Friday evening, but what's the fun in arriving in York when everybody has gone home.

A group DIY would work with a Thursday start, and gives 28 hours rather than 24 hours to complete.

... and doesn't require a minimum number to finish, and would allow a 400km ride rather than an over distance ride.
Seems to preserve the spirit of the event without making life difficult for no reason  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 21 January, 2019, 08:06:45 pm
Generally it is considered infra-dig to ride a perm route that overlaps the calendar event too closely. I'm not sure whether anybody thinks a group perm to York at Easter fits into that category.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: psyclist on 21 January, 2019, 08:16:44 pm
The problem with taking a quote from a different thread and not really understanding the context, you tend to lose the intent. Something the popular press do to create a “story”.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revolution9 on 21 January, 2019, 09:07:53 pm
Am I missing something really obvious?  What's the attraction with a Thursday start?

I recall last year while the majority were arriving at Postern Gate Saturday AM looking wrecked, one team who had chosen a Thursday start sitting in their freshly laundered kit eating breakfast.  This obviously wasn't a time constraint that forced a Thursday start
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 21 January, 2019, 10:28:38 pm
The problem with taking a quote from a different thread and not really understanding the context, you tend to lose the intent. Something the popular press do to create a “story”.

I read that thread and understand the context. Anything else?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jiberjaber on 21 January, 2019, 10:56:00 pm
Generally it is considered infra-dig to ride a perm route that overlaps the calendar event too closely. I'm not sure whether anybody thinks a group perm to York at Easter fits into that category.

I personally don't think it does but do feel you are infering that it does by posting this?

For it to fit in that catagory I would expect a need to be the same/very similar route and at the same time under broadly the same rules (eg: someone riding a DIY of a cal event because they were unable to enter).

This particular is a DIY 400 (under BR) before the Arrow event (under BRM).  No one publishes their route for the arrow for starters (other than start and finish) Or are you saying there is some rule about any none calendar ride >300km just before the Easter Arrow if it heads towards the direction of York (so a DIY from the NE could only head N for example?).

Surely its a case of a discussion with the DIY org who is presiding over the route validation, but if the result was not being allowed, then that would be the end of Audax for me...  :facepalm:

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 22 January, 2019, 12:07:30 am
Indeed, a DIY route that follows its own unique route , obeys BR perm rules, is not a team event (choosing to ride together does not make it a team event for Audax purposes) and starts outside the Easter Arrow window.  Hardly the same as riding a calendar event route on the date of calendar event, but as a perm.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 22 January, 2019, 12:15:51 am
Generally it is considered infra-dig to ride a perm route that overlaps the calendar event too closely. I'm not sure whether anybody thinks a group perm to York at Easter fits into that category.
I think commenting this and then implicitly sitting on the fence is 'stirring it'. The Easter Arrow is an esoteric calendar event and the reasons that mirroring a calendar event with a contemporaneous DIY might be considered 'infra-dig' don't (to me) seem to apply. Geographically spread start locations and times; different routes (with pleasant intersections, hopefully, with those riding from a similar directions) mean that those riding a DIY 12 hours ahead (say) will have no adverse effect that I can imagine. Go for it - sorry not to see you in York on Saturday morning, but riders' real lives are important to a majority/minority(?).
if the laid-down start window is enforced (for 'rules adherence', reasons shared above or otherwise) - I asked about this on here 7 weeks ago (hence I posted the quote from the ACME thread which gave the answer) - then a Thu evening to Fri evening DIY offers an excellent opportunity for a ride, towards York, or towards anywhere, or a loop.
Someone else mentioned Hull Trains. Looks like the London train from Selby (from York = 22km) will cost about £14 (to King's Cross) if booked late this month.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 22 January, 2019, 06:35:13 am
The only people whose opinions count in this regard are the Arrow organiser, the DIY organiser and the validation team. I am none of these people and frankly don't give a flying fuck whether anybody rides a group DIY to York at Easter. I know how it feels to complete a valid Arrow and to have it not be validated because of organiser whim.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: tippers_kiwi on 23 January, 2019, 01:11:40 pm
Am I missing something really obvious?  What's the attraction with a Thursday start?

I recall last year while the majority were arriving at Postern Gate Saturday AM looking wrecked, one team who had chosen a Thursday start sitting in their freshly laundered kit eating breakfast.  This obviously wasn't a time constraint that forced a Thursday start
For me there are a couple of things that make the Thursday night start more attractive,

1. I get to see the more northern parts of the route in daylight which as a southerner I don't often get the opportunity to do.
2. I get to enjoy a night of sleep before a train back to London and ride home from London (because Greater Anglia generally don't run trains on weekends)
3. Still get to catch up with the Friday morning start folk on Saturday morning OR I can get an early train back to London.

Neither of these are essential and I'm perfectly happy with being told it is not possible this year but given the chance it is my preference. I guess if you want a night time start Arrow you could still start on Friday night but that obviously misses out the fun on Saturday morning.



Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revolution9 on 23 January, 2019, 01:24:39 pm
Am I missing something really obvious?  What's the attraction with a Thursday start?

I recall last year while the majority were arriving at Postern Gate Saturday AM looking wrecked, one team who had chosen a Thursday start sitting in their freshly laundered kit eating breakfast.  This obviously wasn't a time constraint that forced a Thursday start
For me there are a couple of things that make the Thursday night start more attractive,

1. I get to see the more northern parts of the route in daylight which as a southerner I don't often get the opportunity to do.
2. I get to enjoy a night of sleep before a train back to London and ride home from London (because Greater Anglia generally don't run trains on weekends)
3. Still get to catch up with the Friday morning start folk on Saturday morning OR I can get an early train back to London.

Neither of these are essential and I'm perfectly happy with being told it is not possible this year but given the chance it is my preference. I guess if you want a night time start Arrow you could still start on Friday night but that obviously misses out the fun on Saturday morning.

That makes sense
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 23 January, 2019, 02:55:36 pm
I enquired (in December but have only just asked the organiser) about 'extra distance':
AUK website rules say:
"DISTANCES. At least 360km must be covered during the 24 hours but you should plan more e.g. 400k or 500k as your target.
The team will be validated if the actual distance covered is within 20% above or below the one stated before the ride (with an absolute minimum of 360km) E.g. if you plan a 450km route the team must ride between 360 and 540km"

"How [does] a group rides a distance further than the planned route (by up to 20%) in practice? Does the group nominate to the organiser various cunning diversion wheezes in case more distance is possible within the allotted 24 hours?"

Response from the organiser (and shared in case of general interest):
"As regards claiming the extra distance:
1)    You must visit any controls you have listed on the entry form in the order you’ve listed them so don’t include any dummy controls.
2)    If having visited all your nominated controls and arrived at the finish you find yourself with lots of time in hand, you can then add some extra distance. You do this by deciding on one or more places as the extra controls and then riding to them and collecting PoP as normal. You DO NOT include these extra controls on the entry form but rather make them up on the hoof when you find yourself at the finish with lots of extra time. Note that you’re still required to ride at least 25km in the final 2 hours so you’ll need to factor this in when deciding on your extra controls. I’ll then calculate the extra distance covered and add it onto your original entry total."
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 25 January, 2019, 05:44:09 pm
First draft of a day time start route with controls plotted. Further tweaks to come once timings done and suitable overnight A road alternatives identified.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 26 January, 2019, 02:41:20 pm
Our (polished) route with 5 controls gives following percentages of road types:
A road (trunk) - 4% (includes a couple of k on the dualled A1 north of Newark)
A road - 34%
B road - 27%
Minor road ('C') - 31%
Minor road (single track) - <1%
Cycle path (away from road) - 3%
Looks like the McDonalds north of Thorne (M18/J6) may be our breakfast stop with 45km to go.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 26 January, 2019, 06:36:12 pm
Done further work on our route and factored in A roads based on timings.  Got distance ridden within 5% of shortest distance and eliminated a control. Pleased with that.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 29 January, 2019, 11:26:37 pm
Full moon if we're lucky (with the sky), rising almost to the minute the sun sets (our route) and setting after sunrise.
https://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=52.477600,-0.920530&dt=20190419124741%2B0100&z=15&spn=0.01,0.04&center=52.4776,-0.9205
https://app.photoephemeris.com/?ll=53.611220,-0.963080&dt=20190420234700%2B0100&z=15&spn=0.01,0.04&center=53.6112,-0.9631
I note that the following full moon, if the clouds allow, should rise on the way back from Menai Bridge on the BCM 29 days later.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 30 January, 2019, 11:04:52 am
If we are not riding under clear skies and a bright moon to guide us then I will know who to blame.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 01 February, 2019, 11:10:28 am
Public service announcement - advanced tickets (and bike reservations) for April 20th are on sale today.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 01 February, 2019, 11:44:37 am
Second public service announcement.

Book it on the Scotrail website and you can still do bike reservations online.  Saves the poxy ring a help line then get put on hold whilst they ask their supervisor how to do bike reservations saga.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 01 February, 2019, 12:03:56 pm
I was going to use the GWR site but it was strugging under load. Must be too many audaxers trying to book  ;D
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: tiermat on 01 February, 2019, 12:06:47 pm
I was going to use the GWR site but it was strugging under load. Must be too many audaxers trying to book  ;D

It'll be the wrong type of snow on the tubes....
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: iroiromono on 01 February, 2019, 01:40:53 pm
Second public service announcement.

Book it on the Scotrail website and you can still do bike reservations online.  Saves the poxy ring a help line then get put on hold whilst they ask their supervisor how to do bike reservations saga.

Sadly this isn't the case anymore, still have to call up and book. In addition Scotrail tickets are not availble yet for their services on 20 April.

EDIT: after ~1 year of no bike resv. being possible through their site, it seems today its been re-enabled. Just booked an Aberdeen-Dundee service
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: bairn again on 01 February, 2019, 03:47:53 pm
Second public service announcement.

Book it on the Scotrail website and you can still do bike reservations online.  Saves the poxy ring a help line then get put on hold whilst they ask their supervisor how to do bike reservations saga.

Sadly this isn't the case anymore, still have to call up and book. In addition Scotrail tickets are not availble yet for their services on 20 April.

EDIT: after ~1 year of no bike resv. being possible through their site, it seems today its been re-enabled. Just booked an Aberdeen-Dundee service
Woo hoo  :thumbsup:

I heard that this facility was about to return. 
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 02 February, 2019, 03:19:17 pm
Second public service announcement.

Book it on the Scotrail website and you can still do bike reservations online.  Saves the poxy ring a help line then get put on hold whilst they ask their supervisor how to do bike reservations saga.

Sadly this isn't the case anymore, still have to call up and book. In addition Scotrail tickets are not availble yet for their services on 20 April.

EDIT: after ~1 year of no bike resv. being possible through their site, it seems today its been re-enabled. Just booked an Aberdeen-Dundee service

I also used  Scotrail in July to make online bike reservations for a Virgin West coast route.  So bike reservations have not been missing for a year, unless they have on Scotrails own routes.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: yorkie on 02 February, 2019, 03:48:32 pm
Second public service announcement.

Book it on the Scotrail website and you can still do bike reservations online.  Saves the poxy ring a help line then get put on hold whilst they ask their supervisor how to do bike reservations saga.

Sadly this isn't the case anymore, still have to call up and book. In addition Scotrail tickets are not availble yet for their services on 20 April.

EDIT: after ~1 year of no bike resv. being possible through their site, it seems today its been re-enabled. Just booked an Aberdeen-Dundee service

I also used  Scotrail in July to make online bike reservations for a Virgin West coast route.  So bike reservations have not been missing for a year, unless they have on Scotrails own routes.

I used the ScotRail website to book bike reservations with tickets last September and October for two separate Brevets, so they may have been lacking for a couple of months, if that.

Incidentally, anyone using the Transpennine Express App can book bikes through the App (certainly on Android) which I believe is the only App based ticket purchasing system with this feature (at the moment) but I may be wrong!  ;)
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 18 February, 2019, 10:05:12 am
ACME Team Fixed looking for a new recruit - currently numbers stand at 3, one more possible. [Actually 3 fixed, one free, so all flavours welcome.]
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: teethgrinder on 22 February, 2019, 10:44:23 pm
ACME Team Fixed looking for a new recruit - currently numbers stand at 3, one more possible. [Actually 3 fixed, one free, so all flavours welcome.]

Me! If you're leaving on Friday morning.
About time I got out on my fixie again.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 23 February, 2019, 06:24:58 pm
ACME Team Fixed looking for a new recruit - currently numbers stand at 3, one more possible. [Actually 3 fixed, one free, so all flavours welcome.]

Me! If you're leaving on Friday morning.
About time I got out on my fixie again.

We could have two teams, one fixed, one free now. Friday morning 09:00 start, TG you have a pm.

Any more on fixed or not, to get us up to more than the minimum of 3 per team?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jsabine on 24 February, 2019, 11:29:50 pm
Hmm. I'm angling for a team, but my track record suggests I'm better with a London start ...

(Probably gears, but that assumes I've got a working bike at all, which on current form isn't guaranteed.)
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Bernster on 25 February, 2019, 10:52:03 am
I'm keen to ride an arrow if practical Tomsk (would be free rather than fixed), will drop you a message  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Smeth on 25 February, 2019, 11:11:03 am
Combined New Forest CC/Wessex CTC team coming. Hopefully we soft southerners won't get our asses kicked like last year. That was brutal.  :)

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: bairn again on 25 February, 2019, 11:45:29 am
Hmm. I'm angling for a team, but my track record suggests I'm better with a London start ...

(Probably gears, but that assumes I've got a working bike at all, which on current form isn't guaranteed.)
yhpm
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 02 March, 2019, 05:45:57 pm
Some silly first-time questions....

Is the entry fee per team, or per person?

Can I/we pay and enter via paypal and then send the rest of the entry forms via post?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 02 March, 2019, 09:02:12 pm
'First timer' here, too, but pleased to have ancien guidance within our 'Wednesday Pub-ride' team.
I entered using paypal in January, sending £15, which I'm certain is for the whole team.
You then have to get each team member to let you have a hard copy or signed pdf of their Easter Arrow entry sheet.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/enter/19-EARO/
Instructions:
Log in, then
'Enter this event' and, in "By Post" click 'Entry Form' and print the pdf, sign it.
Team leader assembles those and gets a team entry form (Page 3 of)
http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/events/Easter_Arrow_2019_rules_and_entry_form.pdf
Fill that in and post it all off (?Large letter' stamp) with SAEs as specified.
See you in York around 8 o'clock Easter Saturday!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Bianchi Boy on 03 March, 2019, 08:45:04 am
'First timer' here, too, but pleased to have ancien guidance within our 'Wednesday Pub-ride' team.
I entered using paypal in January, sending £15, which I'm certain is for the whole team.
You then have to get each team member to let you have a hard copy or signed pdf of their Easter Arrow entry sheet.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/enter/19-EARO/
Instructions:
Log in, then
'Enter this event' and, in "By Post" click 'Entry Form' and print the pdf, sign it.
Team leader assembles those and gets a team entry form (Page 3 of)
http://www.aukweb.net/_resources/files/events/Easter_Arrow_2019_rules_and_entry_form.pdf
Fill that in and post it all off (?Large letter' stamp) with SAEs as specified.
See you in York around 8 o'clock Easter Saturday!

I have just paid by paypal and have three team members who are not AUK members what do I do?

steve
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: postie on 03 March, 2019, 09:26:11 am
Simply get them to fill in a entry form, then sent them all together with any non-member fees that are due .
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: megajoulesexpenditure on 03 March, 2019, 01:44:12 pm
Yes entry fee is per team

Yes you can enter via Paypal then send rest of entry forms/team registration form/SAE's by post :thumbsup:

Some silly first-time questions....

Is the entry fee per team, or per person?

Can I/we pay and enter via paypal and then send the rest of the entry forms via post?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 03 March, 2019, 04:17:00 pm
I have just paid by paypal and have three team members who are not AUK members what do I do?
steve
You have to get each team member to let you have a hard copy or signed pdf of their Easter Arrow entry sheet.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/enter/19-EARO/
Instructions:
Non- AUK members
Click 'Enter this event' and, in "By Post" click 'Blank Entry Form for this Event'; print the pdf fill in and sign it.
As for addl £3 per non-AUK member, best ask the organiser. I would expect that you'd owe another £9.
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/19-EARO/ offers you the organiser's e-address. He answered my questions very clearly and promptly.
I observe that all those listed as having completed an Easter Arrow last year were AUK members:
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2018/listevent/?Ride=18-EARO
Membership of AUK is a bargain - just for the magazine.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 06 March, 2019, 05:19:11 pm
New route plotted for this year with, apart from one, all brand new controls. Will probably put team entry in at beginning of April. Nice to be doing an Audax that is not a PBP qualifier.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: bobw on 13 March, 2019, 05:58:40 pm
Any teams near/reachable by train from Berkshire that need team members or anyone near there looking to form a team?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 18 March, 2019, 02:58:36 pm
Team entry submitted and route pretty much finalised now.  Looking forward to the team aspect of this and it will be a good warm up a week ahead of my PBP 300 qualifier.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 18 March, 2019, 06:58:22 pm
Three questions on the arrow.

1) Presumably receipts are needed to prove start location but is the ride start time the declared time or the receipt time? As I imagine buying some form of breakfast and eating before starting.

2) do we have to declare the exact control location or just name the town?

3)how is the official distance between controls calculated? Is it Google maps walking? Between named towns or receipt address?

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Smeth on 18 March, 2019, 07:06:08 pm


Three questions on the arrow.

1) Presumably receipts are needed to prove start location but is the ride start time the declared time or the receipt time? As I imagine buying some form of breakfast and eating before starting.

We meet for a coffee, then get an Atm ticket as we leave at the nominated time.

2) do we have to declare the exact control location or just name the town?

If it's a small town and/or you are passing through in a relatively straight line just name the town. Otherwise more detail.

3)how is the official distance between controls calculated? Is it Google maps walking? Between named towns or receipt address?

Yes, although it's not official that is the accepted method. Secondly it's between whatever you have stated as the control. So enter your control list of places into Gmaps/walking and see if you get the minimum distance. Pretty much everyone rides extra k's to make it pretty.

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 24 March, 2019, 06:15:20 pm
I sent our entry in a couple of weeks ago... any ideas when brevet cards usually arrive?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 24 March, 2019, 06:56:50 pm
Pretty much everyone rides extra k's to make it pretty.
The East Devon Pub Crawlers are riding one extra kilometre "to make it pretty" (6 intermediate controls).
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 24 March, 2019, 08:35:26 pm
I sent our entry in a couple of weeks ago... any ideas when brevet cards usually arrive?

Change of organiser this year so who knows? Was within a couple of data last year,
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 25 March, 2019, 03:29:49 pm
Pretty much everyone rides extra k's to make it pretty.
The East Devon Pub Crawlers are riding one extra kilometre "to make it pretty" (6 intermediate controls).

LFGSS team 2 are 22km over-distance with 10 controls.

Thanks A1M.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 25 March, 2019, 06:40:10 pm
Pretty much everyone rides extra k's to make it pretty.
The East Devon Pub Crawlers are riding one extra kilometre "to make it pretty" (6 intermediate controls).

LFGSS team 2 are 22km over-distance with 10 controls.

Thanks A1M.

It sounds like you have some consecutive controls close to the A1. You may want to try moving one further east and the other further west. That may bring your ridden route closer to your min distance.  Unless you are trying to ride 540km or some such you may also want to look at reducing the number of intermediate controls.  The Arrow is a bit like herding cats for a team captain.  The fewer stops you can manage without them being too far apart, the better.  You can then make your actual stops longer rather than rushing through each.  I find setting controls roughly 3 - 3.5 hours apart works well.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: teethgrinder on 26 March, 2019, 10:41:29 am
Yes. 10 controls will gobble up at least 2 hours riding time just getting the card stamped/till receipt, even if you're pretty well disciplined and organised. That doesn't take into account time spent eating etc. Much better to have as few controls as possible. You can always stop between controls.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 27 March, 2019, 09:43:22 am
The problem is that we've got a really lovely route that weaves it's way madly up the country to stay on nice roads through rolling hills. It would be a shame to change it just for rule compliance, especially as all the realistic options involve fast A roads.

We've got real controls every 80km or so, and we will photo control the rest, and hope that's accepted - not that there's anywhere to get a receipt anyway at most of them. Google walking between the real controls is >360km so I hope the ride will be validated even if the organiser does believe we've cheated by riding down the A1M :-)

The real challenge will be perfecting the rolling selfie. Trying to get 5 riders and a sign in shot without stopping...
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Pingu on 27 March, 2019, 10:10:47 am
...we will photo control the rest, and hope that's accepted...

Why not ask Megajoules Expenditure otp the organiser?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 27 March, 2019, 10:13:44 am
She isn't the organiser this year.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: FifeingEejit on 27 March, 2019, 10:29:49 am
The problem is that we've got a really lovely route that weaves it's way madly up the country to stay on nice roads through rolling hills. It would be a shame to change it just for rule compliance, especially as all the realistic options involve fast A roads.

We've got real controls every 80km or so, and we will photo control the rest, and hope that's accepted - not that there's anywhere to get a receipt anyway at most of them. Google walking between the real controls is >360km so I hope the ride will be validated even if the organiser does believe we've cheated by riding down the A1M :-)

The real challenge will be perfecting the rolling selfie. Trying to get 5 riders and a sign in shot without stopping...

If google walking is routing you down the A1(M) then the google moderator that's stopping the special road status being entered needs dumped out the back of a van on it.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Pingu on 27 March, 2019, 12:02:14 pm
She isn't the organiser this year.

OK, didn't realise.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 27 March, 2019, 12:40:35 pm
we've got a really lovely route that weaves it's way madly up the country to stay on nice roads through rolling hills. It would be a shame to change it just for rule compliance, especially as all the realistic options involve fast A roads.
That sounds a lovely route for the day and early evening time. Will you be wanting nice roads through rolling hills at 3 in the morning, I wonder? The A roads may be fast, but in the wee hours, those "realistic options" will be empty and your merry band of brothers/sisters will be 'outstanding'.
Our route is split 4% A road (Trunk); 34% A road, 27% B road, 32% C road (ie wide minor road), <1% narrow minor road and 2% cycle tracks.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 27 March, 2019, 02:27:18 pm
route for the day and early evening time. Will you be wanting nice roads through rolling hills at 3 in the morning, I wonder? The A roads may be fast, but in the wee hours, those "realistic options" will be empty and your merry band of brothers/sisters will be 'outstanding'.
Our route is split 4% A road (Trunk); 34% A road, 27% B road, 32% C road (ie wide minor road), <1% narrow minor road and 2% cycle tracks.

Fair enough point (although personal preference) - but our over-distance problem occurs well before nightfall, in an early part of the route. I've test ridden the route enough times to have explored any obvious alternatives.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 04 April, 2019, 11:54:20 am
Anybody got their Easter Arrow brevet cards?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: hippy on 05 April, 2019, 02:27:28 pm
LFGSS team 2 are 22km over-distance with 10 controls.

LFGSS team 1 doesn't exist any more. :S

Anyone looking for a rider? I'm thinking of using the Easter Arrow as a shakedown ride for new bike before RaTN.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 06 April, 2019, 05:45:19 pm
Now heard from Martin and should have cards early next week.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 10 April, 2019, 03:32:19 pm
Cards for the East Devon Pub Crawlers team arrived in the post this morning.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 11 April, 2019, 11:37:16 am
Brevet cards for the Falcons of the Night team have now arrived.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revolution9 on 11 April, 2019, 09:56:09 pm
Cards for Equipe Stravaigin 4 have arrived
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: oggy on 12 April, 2019, 07:07:08 am
team four corner of acme have arrived
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 15 April, 2019, 03:35:55 pm
How is everyone's last minute prep going?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jiberjaber on 15 April, 2019, 05:11:12 pm
The real challenge will be perfecting the rolling selfie. Trying to get 5 riders and a sign in shot without stopping...

Make sure you've worked out how you are going to take the pictures of 5 riders in the dark - it is surprisingly hard to get 5 riders in a selfie in front of a village sign in the dark... use a flash is a good idea but then you can't see the riders / sign due to the reflection and exposure issues it introduces!  ;D  :facepalm: (we had all sorts of bike lights and other things pointed at various bits of teh scene to get a picture and even then it is still tricky! )

If your doing the photos in daylight - then nothing to worry about  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 15 April, 2019, 09:04:53 pm
How is everyone's last minute prep going?

Bike fettling issues with the re-built 'Poppy' the Parkes summer fixie - the BB worked very slightly loose after a 100km test ride and I haven't had time for a proper shakedown since re-tightening. I guess I'll be crossing fingers and giving it a go, or putting lighter tyres on the winter Genesis [Bernardette] - needs a new chain too; hmm, decision time looms.

Looks like the sandals will get their first 2019 outing though.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 15 April, 2019, 09:37:36 pm
Hair clippers will be going on charge tomorrow.  Bit last minute for the forecast temps. Hair bit too long at the moment.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 15 April, 2019, 09:53:20 pm
How is everyone's last minute prep going?
Searching for weather forecasts which offer assistance. Sacrifice to the wind gods once we arrive at our pre-Arrow briefing (aka the Wednesday pub of the week).
Going to be attractively warm from 10 till after sunset.
Clear skies for the full moon to light our way through the dark hours.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: tomj on 16 April, 2019, 11:08:04 am
Where are the post Arrow activities taking place, will there be beer?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: jiberjaber on 16 April, 2019, 11:44:03 am
Where are the post Arrow activities taking place, will there be beer?

The Postern Gate, 'spoons pub in York is the destination of choice...

https://goo.gl/maps/nAmXHg8fgBs
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 16 April, 2019, 11:46:10 am
Where are the post Arrow activities taking place, will there be beer?
From the organiser's note "You are free to finish anywhere you like within York. The Postern Gate has proved a popular post-event meeting place in the past. I have warned them you are coming so behave yourselves . . ."
https://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pubs/all-pubs/england/north-yorkshire/the-postern-gate-york
Postern Gate https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Postern+Gate/@53.9546536,-1.0792373,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x487931add5b4b0b7:0x81a35c2b3769c9f5!8m2!3d53.9546536!4d-1.0770486 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/The+Postern+Gate/@53.9546536,-1.0792373,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x487931add5b4b0b7:0x81a35c2b3769c9f5!8m2!3d53.9546536!4d-1.0770486)
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 16 April, 2019, 12:20:49 pm
Yeah Postern Gate on Picadilly. If you are coming in from the south and pick up the A19, when you hit the city walls take a slight left then cross straight over into Picadilly.  You'll need to walk the last bit else you can go right then go left through first gate in the wall then left again at the cost of an extra 300 metres or so and onto Picadilly.


Weather forecast looking like decent temps during day, sunshine and light winds.  Headwinds for our team but as long as the winds aren't too strong that's fine.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: tomj on 16 April, 2019, 12:31:05 pm
Southern approach, may bump into the ACME crew early doors, via McD @ Goole, no bridge this time.......
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 16 April, 2019, 05:59:32 pm
That is all part of the fun of the Arrow criss crossing with other teams or meeting them at control locations.  Overnight 24hr services will concentrate the choices.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revolution9 on 16 April, 2019, 06:11:58 pm
Looks like those of us de l'Ecosse will have the usual 400k headwind.  No snow this year though
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 16 April, 2019, 06:18:47 pm
Looks like those of us de l'Ecosse will have the usual 400k headwind.  No snow this year though
Looks like those of us from the south west will have 300k of headwind.
This article points up that, statistically, the wind blows from the SW and NE on an equal number of days in April and May (with end-to-end relevance btw).
https://rmets.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/wea.301
"For  the  months  of  April  and  May  in  particular, the frequency of northeasterly winds increases while that of southwesterly winds decreases  so  that  the  frequency  of  north-easterlies  is  about  equal  to  that  of  south-westerlies. In fact, during some decades, the prevailing  wind  at  many  sites  during  these  months is northeasterly."
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 16 April, 2019, 06:31:14 pm
Gentle breeze from north east that will turn more north north east overnight.  As long as gale force winds don't turn up nothing for anyone to be concerned about.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: FifeingEejit on 16 April, 2019, 11:54:06 pm
Pressure charts for Friday into Saturday are "Interesting"

Mid-Atlantic Scandinavian and Continental Highs with North Atlantic, Iberian and Turkish Lows.

North of the Humber it looks like once the winds pick up they will be South Easterly but before that it's very low winds meandering with the land mass.

South of the Humber they will be Easterly as it's channelling down the channel

However that's a forecast as of 1800 CEST Tuesday... 3 Days for the North-Atlantic low to decide it would rather visit us than Greenland...
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 18 April, 2019, 02:00:07 pm
New spare gear cable added as discovered had used up spares and only spare brake cable remained.  Found a bottle of chain oil last opened at altitude. A spare inner tube with snapped valve. The joys of going through a rack pack that hasn't been emptied for a while.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: inappropriate_bike on 18 April, 2019, 02:26:02 pm
New spare gear cable added as discovered had used up spares and only spare brake cable remained.  Found a bottle of chain oil last opened at altitude. A spare inner tube with snapped valve. The joys of going through a rack pack that hasn't been emptied for a while.

I discovered that one of my spare inner tubes had a schrader valve. Whoops.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 18 April, 2019, 06:25:22 pm
Bon Courage et Bonne Route to all the teams.

See you in York  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 18 April, 2019, 10:11:06 pm
Have a good one, everyone.
#easterarrow
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Pingu on 18 April, 2019, 10:24:25 pm
No snow or ice? Hardly worth getting up for  :)

Have fun y'all!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: toontra on 20 April, 2019, 12:17:05 pm
Very quiet in here.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ian H on 20 April, 2019, 05:21:50 pm
The Postern Gate was heaving with cyclists when I got there sometime around 9.  More were coming in.  Couldn't stay long as my train was at 10
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revellinho on 20 April, 2019, 09:35:10 pm
Summary:  burnt to a frazzle. Chilled to the bone.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 21 April, 2019, 07:32:20 am
ACME Dynamite Singletons [3 fixed, one single speed] had a very pleasant ride; thank you to all the team.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  Engaging the services of Teethgrinder as domestique reaped benefits, even if the captain had to go on the front occasionally to slow the pace down a bit. A different route across the Fens for us this time - still looks much the same though. The 'unfinished business' of last year's washout concluded.

Lots of down time along the way, including a leisurely evening meal at the Packhorse in Sleaford and a midnight feast plus some Zzzzzs at Scunthorpe McD's. The young staff and probably intoxicated yoof at the latter were as charming and lovely as last year [when we dripped all over the place], so not a one-off occurrence. The blazing gases from the neighbouring steelworks were a cheery sight on a chilly night too; I rather like Scunthorpe.

Postern Gate buzzing and good fun as usually - pity I was too smashed to be very sociable. The train lulled me to sleep as usual though - hope those nutters heroes pedaling home again had a good ride.

Happy Easter Everyone!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 21 April, 2019, 10:00:36 am
East Devon Pub Crawlers (4 up, all geared) all home after making York by breakfast time.
Steady block headbreeze till darkness. Made good time from Taunton across to Oxfordshire.
Planned route: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29003693?beta=false
Leg warmers (and other warm stuff) off at noon (Corsham) and sunscreen applied to exposed parts.
The Bread Bin cafe in Carterton (at 7 hours) was excellent: all day breakfasts at 3pm.
Ice creams in Banbury.
Big thanks to Daventry Cycle Club for their welcome and escort through that fair town
Massive thanks to McDonalds in Melton Mowbray who were kind, late in the night, close to their closing time: a warm seat in a night becoming colder than forecast.
it was down to 2 degrees in the frosty hollows of north Nottinghamshire and the Yorkshire borders. Full moon all night, from behind us. In the company of three dynamos I didn't need a 'to see' light except when on the front (kept to a minimum).
Enthusiasm for the McDonalds' fare on our third visit (Thorne at sunrise - ten to six) was wearing thin.
@Ian H's dodgy knee performed with the spirit of years past and the pain disguised by long pulls on the front at a cadence only a cyclist used to riding 'fixed' could maintain with such souplesse.
@Vorsprung got the bit between his teeth in the last 3 hours, painfully interrupted with 6km to go (to the 24 hour point) by an A19 30kph to zero deceleration (-10ms-2) which mercifully left him 'only' with a dislocated/broken finger (which he stoically shoved back into a glove and rode to York (hospital)) - and no doubt bruising unseen (at the time). The bikes were OK.
Post ride analysis and discussion at the pub on Wednesday.

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 21 April, 2019, 11:19:06 am
Before we found out Thursday night starts could no longer count as an Easter Arrow we had booked York Central Travelodge rooms for the Friday night via saver rate (non refundable).  I polled the team and since at least a couple wanted to get an Arrow it would have to be a Friday morning start.   We opted for a 6am start as that would at least allow us to get some value out of the rooms (rooms have a 12pm checkout).

I rolled down to our start 15 mins ahead of our planned start. Captains privilege meant the start was near where I lived.  I could tell it was cold because it was downhill and I was already feeling the windchill having just come from a warm house.  Sure enough Dave and Stephen who'd arrived a bit early by taxi were cold, fully wrapped up, and keen to get going. The clocked ticked past 6am, receipts gained, we were off.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/mwbmf2bccfm0dru/DSCF1556.png?raw=1)

We took advantage of the early start, riding roads to Baldock that we wouldn't be on during the day as they are too busy.  Then into the lanes to Ashwell and onwards to Cambridge Services (A14). The sun was low on the horizon, ethereal mist hung in the valleys, the dawn chorus were singing, and the lanes were empty.  As it warmed we stopped and layers were removed.  The services were like an alien world, where we had a second breakfast before continuing on our way.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6sqxhiwczd4a2a/DSCF1557.png?raw=1)

We joined the Cambridge - St Ives busway before striking north west to Oundle. Howard and I had been this way in mid March on Wilkboy's Pork Pie 200.  It could not have been a bigger contrast this time.  No wrestling with the bike to keep upright and in a straight line in gale force winds. The rape seed are now flowering and the scent of the oil drifted in the air.   Red Kites flew above us.  In Oundle we stopped at the first cafe with cyclists outside.  Service was slow and food choices limited.  We stuck with it though the sausage roll I had was a bit too stodgy for me. Recommended then!

From Oundle we headed north to Bottesford via Oakham.  This was the start of the hilliest section, during the heat of the day. But we weren't exepcting these temperatures when I planned it.  Here Dave suffered the first puncture.  He inserted an anchovy in his tubeless tyre and we were on our way.  At Harringworth viaduct the anchovy was causing problems.  So I leant him my knife to trim it, as I run tubeless as well, and had it in my kit.  He will be adding a knife to his kit for his next outing

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqlt09e6ppcxa4f/DSCF1558.png?raw=1)

The lanes remained quiet and the views opened out.  The view down to Oakham and Rutland Water from above Brook was lovely. We stopped in Oakham for ice creams and water. Not a control stop but necessary in the increasing heat of the day.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/j80zbxdj0folcgq/DSCF1559.png?raw=1)

Past Wymondham tea rooms the land began to smooth as we exited the hills.  Fine views opened up of Belvoir Castle, just as a short sharp hill appeared from nowhere into Harston, before we dropped down to Bottesford.  Traffic remained remarkably light.  Lighter than I could have imagined for Easter. In Bottesford we stopped at Pizzini.  The guy said the £7 pizza was just a side plate so we all ordered the £9.50 version.  My god the pizza was large, no one finished theirs.  Just as we were about to Leave Stephen found out he had a puncture.  Tubeless 1 - Tubed 1.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/ba0zyapo1ddftn3/DSCF1561.png?raw=1)

Now we turned north east for Woodhall Spa.  Early on the lanes were hedge lined which helped with the headwind but where exposed the front rider changed over more frequently.  One such hedge lane had wide verged either side and they had been perfectly manicured. Perfect for camping, a picnic, or a sleep. The way the audax mind works. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/140pmbcc2pi6hz9/DSCF1560.png?raw=1)

We crossed the A15 with signs to Sleaford and Lincoln and continued on into the top of the Fens where the hedges disappeared.  The headwind more directly fatigued team members now but we continued to make good progress as it finally began to cool. 

Woodhall Spa seemed to be on some early closing regime with many stopping serving food around 6pm.  On our third attempt we found a place serving till 9pm.  As we layered up for the overnight leg Dave commented that the pub could turn the heating up a bit. We looked round and saw that everyone else was in shorts and t shirts or skirts.  It was just us.

Picking up the water railway to Southrey we entered a world of darkness with very little lighting about.  Through Bardney we gradually climbed up towards the ridge above Lincoln where we cross the A15 once again and joined the A1500 then A156 to Gainsborough.  Some team members were now falling off the back so we needed to slow the pace down a little.  Second and third winds would be regained and then another team member would be suffering.  It was so damned cold, didn't feel like the forecast 6c.  The leg from Woodhall Spa to Goole Services was 106km but we had an intermediate (non control) stop planned at Gainsborough.  There are a couple of take aways open till 2am serving hot pizza.  But on arriving there, we decided it was too cold to hang around outside, and decided to push on, at a slower place. Howard revolted so we stopped for quick snacks out the saddlebags, but the cold soon drove us on.  WE continued up the fast and empty A161 to Goole. Wisps of freezing fog indicated  when were about to enter an especially cold spot.  My gilet and summer merino top weren't really keeping me warm and my leg warmers keeping falling down but sod it if I was stopping.  The others similarly did not want to stop before Goole. Looking back at the moon I thought I saw four cycle lights far behind us, but could have been mistaken. Goole Services arrived not a minute too soon.

I couldn't face a burger so I just had a coke whilst the others had coffees and hot food.  The apple pie would had been alright had I thought of it.  Shortly after 4am we were on our way again.  Just 37km to go, mentally much easier to think of than our last 106km leg. Up the A roads before cutting through the lanes across to the A19 at Escrick.  I hit an energy low point in lanes, being a bit dehydrated, Dave kindly offered a wheel for me to follow. I picked up by the end and positively time trialled down the A19 to the finish. We rolled into York not long after 5:30am.

After breaking a cashpoint machine we headed to the Travelodge, checked in. 

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/5g2vrno4fhl948k/DSCF1562.png?raw=1)
A very welcome hot shower, then bed shortly after 6am.    Rising about 9:30am we headed down to the Postern Gate to catch up with others and have breakfast. Great to catch up and see all the riders there. Shame some others did not quite make it.  Train wasn't till 2pm so I had a wander round York from 12pm before heading back south. I was a university student in York in the 1980's so nice to wander round familar sights from my youth. 

Overall I was very pleased with the route and would change little. I do like to vary route year to year anyway, but if I came this way again it wouldn't really change. This route only works with a morning start.

(https://www.dropbox.com/s/6g1eo5jfzpgnwdn/DSCF1563.png?raw=1)

Cheers
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Deano4 on 21 April, 2019, 11:42:19 am
I had joined a team of five (including myself) and we all met for the first time in Costa Coffee near Tower Bridge on this warm April morning. After introductions were made we set out to start the ride at 10:00am.

The first control was the Tesco at Cambridge but to reach it we would first have to get out of London. This was not a quick task with so many traffic lights it was stop/start all the way. This was not only slow but also very wasteful of energy and it also didn’t help us get anytime in hand. Highlights for the football fans included passing the brand new Tottenham Hotspur stadium.

We got out of London as quickly as we could which wants very fast and were then hit with the lumpy hills on the way to Cambridge. With the hills came the headwind and my speed reduced drastically and I saw everyone else disappear into the distance. James slowed down and then towed me back up to the others.

We all had to stop as Mark had broken a gear cable which was a welcomed rest. He phoned ahead to a bike shop in Cambridge and we were on our way again. I was lagging behind once more and seriously suffering but luckily the guys all waited for me and helped me through the tough stage to the control.

Onwards to Barton Mills and things got a lot easier; the hills vanished and there was no longer a headwind. Just the blinding, blistering sun to deal with now. Riding as a group we were able to pick up the pace a bit to try and regain some of the time we lost. That said though we still could only afford a short stop at the petrol station and then onwards to the Wetherspoons at Whittlesey.

It was approaching the end the day now and it was nice riding into the fens as the sunset. Surprisingly though the winds still weren’t giving us any problems so that was a blessing however as the sun went down the temperature went with it. It would be time to put the warmer night time kit on after the ‘Spoons.

Interesting things always happen in the dark! Somewhere between Boston and Gainsborough (our next two controls) we turned down a road which was warning us of closures. Normally you can get around closures on a bike but this one was completely fenced off with no way around. We lifted our bikes over the fence and then noticed why it was fenced off: in the middle of the road was a huge mound of mud! We walked over the hill and down the other side where there was another fence. We lifted our bikes over once more and were back on the way. Of course this delay meant our planned half hour stop was now reduced to 15 minutes.

By around midnight we were seriously pushing against the time limit and weren’t sure if we would make it in time, further planned stops were reduced and we upped the pace and pushed on.

The night time was really cold, especially through the fog but on the move it wasn’t too bad except for the fingers and toes.

We reached Goole in the morning around 07:00 leaving us just 3 hours to reach York. We motored on enjoying the sight of the windmills poking out through the fog, it would have made a good photo if we had more time. The last stage was short and we arrived at the final Wetherspoons at 9:40 and by the time we locked the bikes up and got a receipt it was 09:45. Cutting it close but we made it, 400km in under 24 hours (just!)

What have we learnt from the arrow then? Must improve the luggage system on the bike and not start a 24 hour event in a busy city filled with traffic lights!
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 21 April, 2019, 08:26:06 pm
Interesting things always happen in the dark! Somewhere between Boston and Gainsborough (our next two controls) we turned down a road which was warning us of closures. Normally you can get around closures on a bike but this one was completely fenced off with no way around. We lifted our bikes over the fence and then noticed why it was fenced off: in the middle of the road was a huge mound of mud! We walked over the hill and down the other side where there was another fence. We lifted our bikes over once more and were back on the way. Of course this delay meant our planned half hour stop was now reduced to 15 minutes.
I didn't have any scales with me, but I suspect the weight of Dean's bike and panniers may have exceeded manual handling limit of 25kg which is probably why the rolling countryside to Cambridge felt like lumpy hills   ;)
What have we learnt from the arrow then? Must improve the luggage system on the bike and not start a 24 hour event in a busy city filled with traffic lights!
In hindsight I should have made everyone come to me, meeting at High Wycombe station just like in the film the world's end. Chiltern Hills would not have been slower than getting out of London.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: markldn on 22 April, 2019, 12:02:22 am
Great write-up Dean. Did you see that you’re in the background of Phil W’s photo. Funny that you posted right after.

Found the road closure! The A15 Lincoln Eastern Bypass https://www.roads.org.uk/road-schemes/a15-lincoln-eastern-bypass (https://www.roads.org.uk/road-schemes/a15-lincoln-eastern-bypass)

Google maps avoids it in a car but not on a bike or walking. I believe Tomsk’s group scaled the mountain bypass too!

The gear cable was due to be replaced and that was my lesson learnt (and also a spare weighs nothing). [And to add a little of my own experience to Dean’s write-up] Rather than sit and faff with a possible replacement in a teammate’s bag, the idea to find a fix in Cambridge 27km away was hatched. Calling ahead from the road, Halfords call centre instructed me about their assessment service, which was required before any actual service could be booked. Not sure why I was calling Halfords in the first place but after explaining to the woman that I was currently in a race across the country, and possibly the next Bradley Wiggins, she kindly attempted to get in touch with the workshop, and when that failed took my details and would try to get a message through (I eventually received a callback today (Sunday) from Cambridge Halfords but had to politely turn down the appointment slot). Not wanting to gamble with just turning up Halfords, I called another shop and the immediate answer was “no problem, you sound important” they may have said.

It was Rutland Cycles of internet bike shop fame which saved the day. They had me in and out in maybe 5 minutes it felt like.

We then got maybe 80km out of Cambridge and Veloman had realised his wallet (complete with £120, AND receipts) was back in Cambridge.

Plenty of fun otherwise. Riding with a random group of people 425km you’ve just met is bound to be. Thanks a ton to Tomsk for introducing us all and causing it to happen. Legendary day!

Some videos and photos of the journey...

https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE4MDMyMDY1NDU2MDgzODQ3/?utm_source=ig_story_highlights_share&igshid=uz63ml3gvzf0 (https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE4MDMyMDY1NDU2MDgzODQ3/?utm_source=ig_story_highlights_share&igshid=uz63ml3gvzf0)

Also, temperature wise, my Wahoo bottomed out at 0 degrees. Wonderful (that we weren’t just being wimps!)
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Tomsk on 22 April, 2019, 06:47:03 am
Riding with a random group of people 425km you’ve just met is bound to be. Thanks a ton to Tomsk for introducing us all and causing it to happen. Legendary day!

Glad it worked out for you all, though commiserations to Veloman for losing his money and [more importantly!] receipts.

That road closure near Bracebridge Heath will require some re-routeing for 'Fenland Friends 600km' in June.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: vorsprung on 22 April, 2019, 07:54:52 am
Now I've had a chance to calm down a bit, just to add to what Ajax Bay said above

There was a slight headwind in the going east phase but nothing much to worry about
We were riding in a quite efficient pace line
On the whole, nice roads, not too much "Wessex" stuff and not so many busy A roads

Only time I was out of sorts was around midday, when I thought there was a pit stop - and there wasn't.  I ran out of water and was hungry but I drank my emergency Friji and somehow pulled through, against the odds

The late lunch stop is worth a mention, it was a bread shop that does fryups "the home of the Carterton Bun" just around the corner from the LBS

Also the next stop as Ajax Bay mentioned it was around someones house, a nice welcome makes the beans taste better.  Thank you Roz

After this, it suddenly went from teeshirt weather to nippy.  The moonrise was great, quite red

I had a bad patch around 1am to 3am, couldn't keep up on the hills and the others had to stop for me a couple of times.

As usual, once the daylight came back so did my will power and after two Egg MacMuffins (or whatever the evil golden arches call this product now) I finished strongly enough to break my little finger in a crash

The only regret was that the time we lost due to the crash means that we lost a little bit of distance, just before the crash I was pulling at 20mph and after it I was crawling along at walking pace

Quick trip to the A&E - who were fabulous - and then straight to the train via the murderous traffic of York.  Didn't make it to the pub  :-\
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 22 April, 2019, 07:28:35 pm
Ah so that's Deano_44 we did have a chat but he was struggling to remember where he had been at the time. He did not have any leg warmers so another member of your team gas leant him some. Zero degrees no wonder I was cold with what I had with me
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 22 April, 2019, 07:36:28 pm
As to your road closure we made our way north west from Bardney crossing the A15 north of Lincoln , straight across onto the A1500 towards Gainsborough. Nice gentle climb and no closed roads, barriers or disruption. Roads were fairly empty (a few cars on A1500 but not that many and they all gave wide overtakes) when we were there which was from about 22:00 onwards, passing Gainsborough a little after midnight.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Deano4 on 22 April, 2019, 07:44:39 pm
Ah so that's Deano_44 we did have a chat but he was struggling to remember where he had been at the time. He did not have any leg warmers so another member of your team gas leant him some. Zero degrees no wonder I was cold with what I had with me

To be fair I don’t normally know where I am on most Audaxes until I get to the control!  ;D

Managed ok without leg warmers though  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 22 April, 2019, 07:51:30 pm
Ah so that's Deano_44 we did have a chat but he was struggling to remember where he had been at the time. He did not have any leg warmers so another member of your team gas leant him some. Zero degrees no wonder I was cold with what I had with me

To be fair I don’t normally know where I am on most Audaxes until I get to the control!  ;D

Managed ok without leg warmers though  :thumbsup:

True, especially in a team event. As a team captain you're hyper aware of where you are from all the route planning and fettling.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: iroiromono on 21 May, 2019, 12:03:40 pm
Any idea when we might expect results for the Easter Arrows?

Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Phil W on 21 May, 2019, 02:55:49 pm
I emailed Martin on this last week, he reckoned in the next couple of weeks, so probably by end of this month.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Kangaroocourt on 10 June, 2019, 09:08:03 am
Still no results.  Is that usual?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ian H on 10 June, 2019, 10:18:36 am
I believe Martin is busy with work at the mo.  Doubtless they'll appear eventually.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revellinho on 10 June, 2019, 01:56:01 pm
Still no results.  Is that usual?

Used to be after the summer in days gone by
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: JonB on 27 June, 2019, 10:43:49 pm
Results are up  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: JohnL on 28 June, 2019, 10:25:32 am
Summer results up to...
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Revellinho on 27 July, 2019, 05:29:18 pm
Results are up  :thumbsup:
Any mileages to be found?
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 30 July, 2019, 05:55:56 pm
Since the Easter Arrow is recognised by ACP "Easter Arrow of 360k needed to claim your free ACP medal", is there not an ACP homologation for it? Just asking (though expect to need a number as part of a ACP 10k submission (two events pending completion including the French ride).
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 30 July, 2019, 06:01:43 pm
Since the Easter Arrow is recognised by ACP "Easter Arrow of 360k needed to claim your free ACP medal", is there not an ACP homologation for it? Just asking (though expect to need a number as part of a ACP 10k submission (two events pending completion including the French ride).
Previous years have them, I imagine it's in the process. I need mine for ACP 5000 this year.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ian H on 30 July, 2019, 06:53:30 pm
Since the Easter Arrow is recognised by ACP "Easter Arrow of 360k needed to claim your free ACP medal", is there not an ACP homologation for it? Just asking (though expect to need a number as part of a ACP 10k submission (two events pending completion including the French ride).
Previous years have them, I imagine it's in the process. I need mine for ACP 5000 this year.
I suspect that, this year, just at the moment, it's all hands on deck for Paris-Brest-Paris at ACP. 

http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/354%20-%20Results%20Fl%C3%A9che%20V%C3%A9locio.html
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 29 October, 2019, 04:21:23 pm
Since the Easter Arrow is recognised by ACP "Easter Arrow of 360k needed to claim your free ACP medal", is there not an ACP homologation for it? Just asking (though expect to need a number as part of a ACP 10k submission (two events pending completion including the French ride).
3 months on from posing this in July, is the AUK Easter Arrow subject to homologation by ACP?
Rules for AUK Arrows "The Easter Arrow is validated by Audax Club Parisien as the UK equivalent of the Flèche Velocio. It may be substituted for the Flèche when claiming Randonneur 5000 and 10000 awards from ACP."
I hope whichever team is noted as having ridden furthest (info presumably shared at the Reunion) will post their route on this thread.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ian H on 29 October, 2019, 04:51:15 pm
The bare bones are here:  http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/434%20-%20Results%20Fl%C3%A8ches%20Pascales%20Nationales.html
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: FifeingEejit on 29 October, 2019, 05:51:10 pm
As I have amassed the results once the Arrow and PBP have been taken into account for the ACP R5000 award I had asked our ACP representative for the form and was holding off in the hope the arrow results would come in time.

However I received an e-mail the other day from him advising me to submit the form with my PBP frame number as the hold up is at the ACP side with Arrow validation.
Apparently there is a single person responsible for processing all the arrow results on the ACP side, for the whole world of Arrows.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: frankly frankie on 30 October, 2019, 10:40:04 am
One problem is that Arrows/Fleches are an oddball event format (in randonneuring terms) and cannot be dealt with systematically.  Neither by ACP nor by AUK. For example every 'normal' ride has a finishing time and so the system has a Time field to store this - replacing a Time with a Distance does not compute.  Then there are the extra arcane rules surrounding group riding and finishing**.  In short whereas most results processing is little more than a button-push or an upload of an excel file, Arrows require the attentions of an individual who both understands what they are about and cares about them.  Such people are in short supply.

** I write as one who completed a 100% wet Arrow only to arrive at York and have my brevet card ceremonially torn up before my eyes by the finish controller (who fortunately was a friend of mine).  Because 4 of us set off but only 2 of us finished.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: FifeingEejit on 30 October, 2019, 01:35:24 pm
One problem is that Arrows/Fleches are an oddball event format (in randonneuring terms) and cannot be dealt with systematically. 

They probably could, just it would be a system specific to arrows.
It would need to record team composition, have an acceptable threshold of time difference at controls (Queues and taking longer to pick from the menu at mcdonalds) and be able to determine how many riders in each team reached the finish control.
It would also need the 22nd hour rule and location and distance at 24th hour if not the finish control rule as well.
As it needs to work out shortest distances it could link into Google's routing (costs $$$) and do route agreement automatically and spit out Brevet cards from that.

There would be limited advantage to AUK for that as there's only 2 a year.
However ACP has apparently over 700 a year to handle, they would probably gain quite a bit by implementing some sort of systematic assistance.
ACP's lack of rider UIDs would be an issue of course...

If I could be bothered ::-) I'd attempt to knock one up as a training exercise for myself.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 04 November, 2019, 04:11:51 pm
I notice that next year's Easter Arrow (10-11 April) is now on the calendar:
http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/20-EARO/
with Andy Uttley organising.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: FifeingEejit on 04 November, 2019, 04:15:43 pm
hm, I was considering riding Longtown way round again (in the hope it'd be dry this time)
Newcastle airport is in a Yorkward direction though...
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 22 November, 2019, 03:04:12 pm
The bare bones are here:  http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/434%20-%20Results%20Fl%C3%A8ches%20Pascales%20Nationales.html
Parochially: UNITED KINGDOM
Easter Arrow to York – Meeting in York, on April 20, 2019
17 teams, longest distance 492km
Results here (Edited - 2019 now up): https://www.audax.uk/results/annual-awards/arrows-darts-trails
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: Ajax Bay on 09 April, 2020, 11:36:29 pm
Tomorrow would have been the 2020 Easter Arrow ride.
So a year on, it would be good if someone could give ACP a nudge to let the Easter Arrow 2019 organiser have the ACP hoomologation numbers so those who successfully completed this last year can be sent their brevets and certificates (and thus have the ACP number - which inter alia might be needed for an ACP 10000 award).
Up to PBP, and for a while afterwards, I can understand that ACP were rightly applying all their efforts to the whole qualification process and the organisation of PBP itself, but it's a fair few months since then, and sad to say, our contemporaries in France are not riding their bikes very far, at present.
Title: Re: Easter Arrow 2019
Post by: iroiromono on 01 June, 2021, 04:10:27 pm
Tomorrow would have been the 2020 Easter Arrow ride.
So a year on, it would be good if someone could give ACP a nudge to let the Easter Arrow 2019 organiser have the ACP hoomologation numbers so those who successfully completed this last year can be sent their brevets and certificates (and thus have the ACP number - which inter alia might be needed for an ACP 10000 award).
Up to PBP, and for a while afterwards, I can understand that ACP were rightly applying all their efforts to the whole qualification process and the organisation of PBP itself, but it's a fair few months since then, and sad to say, our contemporaries in France are not riding their bikes very far, at present.

While it appears the homologation has happened with ACP numbers against the results, it appears that the cards and certificates are yet to appear.
http://www.aukweb.net/results/archive/2019/listevent/?Ride=19-EARO