Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => On The Road => Topic started by: Notsototalnewbie on 25 October, 2020, 01:51:59 pm
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Is there much point expecting much to come of reporting a car with foreign plates? They're EU but I can't make out the country code, possibly someone with a decent computer that does better freeze-frames might be able to. I've got the reg itself but no way of looking it up that I know of.
Essentially I was following Jane down a very narrow, skoggy lane (Nash Lane in Bromley if you're local). Anyone who's cycled with me knows I'm a very cautious descender and given it was hissing it down and the lane was covered in chutney today was no exception.
Jane had just gone round a bend a little way ahead when a VW 4x4 coming towards us pretty much forced her off the road (she told me this later as she was out of my sight by then); luckily there was a track that she was able to swerve into, then the driver comes round the bend and drives towards me only stopping at the very last moment (he essentially fills most of the lane with his car so I've not got anywhere to go). I braked sharply and managed to fall into the hedge next to him as in my efforts to get out of the way I'd slipped in the leaves at the side of the road.
As I briefly lay in the verge/hedge feeling a bit dazed he shouted 'Get out of the fucking way' and drove off, clipping the back of my bike as he went. It doesn't seem to be damaged luckily, I think he clipped the wheel/tyre and the Surly has pretty bombproof wheels with eleventy million spokes.
It's all on front and rear camera, but I wonder if much will be done given the foreign plates and the fact that I didn't actually die (but could have done if I was a bolder descender). It shook me up though and I needed to take a few moments before we carried on, resisting the strong urge to cut the ride short and cycle home crying. I'm not physically hurt or anything thanks to the slow speed that I fell over.
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That sounds awful.
I would see if your local police force have a system for uploading camera footage. Ours, Avon and Somerset, do and they certainly follow up some of the cases.
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What Steve said.
A bit dumb shouting 'Get out of the fucking way' when you're already flattened. Hope they get the bastard.
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What is with people like this ? That's awful. Glad to hear you're physically unscathed. All I can suggest is uploading the footage to the appropriate Police site.
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That sounds horrendous. As you've got the reg it should be possible to work out the country from the format. I would go to the plod and see if you get a sympathetic response from the desk. Be warned that they may say "there was no RTI as you are not injured and your vehicle is not damaged". If the clipping of your wheel is caught on camera it would be worth saying your wheel was put out of true and you repaired it in the meantime. This should elevate it to leaving the scene of a collision. You might also get some truck from the road rage, particularly if the driving looks like deliberate intimidation.
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That sounds awful.
I would see if your local police force have a system for uploading camera footage. Ours, Avon and Somerset, do and they certainly follow up some of the cases.
Oh the Met do and this was technically Bromley so I'll report it to them. They've followed up on quite a few bad drivers (I do live in Croydon after all) but nothing quite as bad as this. I'm just worried that the foreign plates might mean he can do this kind of thing with impunity.
(I promise I do not cycle round looking for trouble so I can post it on youtube etc, but a few too many bad incidents that I simply could not avoid convinced me to get a cheap set so they could at least get some kind of police followup).
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Horrible. It's got to be worth reporting. Even if nothing comes of it, whether that's due to foreign reg or police sloth, it should be good for your peace of mind. And if the reg is legible, it should be possible to work out the country from format, font, etc, even if the code isn't there.
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The foreign plates should matter not a jot. In some European countries driving licenses are linked to I.D. cards as well.
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I've uploaded it to the Met site along with footage. At worst I've wasted an hour of my life, but I find it helps me mentally to draw a line under these things.
I must say I've been really impressed with how the Met have acted in the past, for lesser incidents than this (mainly very close passes) but they were all UK plates.
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What was the reg?
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[redacted just in case] I can make out the EU stars but not the country code.
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Irish ?
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Yup, Irish I reckon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland
Note: in the case of Counties Limerick, Tipperary, and Waterford, where a vehicle has been first brought into use in another country prior to 1 January 2014 and is subsequently imported into and registered in Ireland, the codes L, LK, TS, TN, W, and WD as formerly applicable continue to be issued for such vehicles. This is to maintain the integrity of the numbering system in place for the years prior to 2014.[8]
Former index mark codes
Codes used from 1987 to 2013:[8]
Code County
LK County Limerick
TN North Tipperary
TS South Tipperary
WD County Waterford
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As I suspected.
Just tried this: https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/welcome.do
but it doesnt recognise the registration
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I can vouch for the fact that if you commit a traffic infraction overseas (at least in Germany) they will come for you In the UK so I guess the same applies in reverse. If it is Ireland you’ve a pretty good chance of spoiling their day at least as much as they have spoiled yours.
Good luck, nail the ass hole
A
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Right or left hand drive vehicle?
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Sorry to read about this, NSTN, and I hope action is taken regardless of the Irish reg, if that is what it is.
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Thanks everyone. Interesting to know it’s an Irish plate at least, I expect the police could also work this out if they’re so inclined.
It was a right hand drive.
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I would see if your local police force have a system for uploading camera footage. Ours, Avon and Somerset, do and they certainly follow up some of the cases.
Yes they did with mine - or said they would, no updates as 'I was a witness' but I got a reply in under a day so I'm happy to believe they will.
I think mine was just sheer incompetence or impatience, yours sounds positively evil so I do hope you get a result.
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No advice that hasn't already been given, but that sounds awful. Hope you're both okay.
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Possible the driver is a member of the travelling community, in which case it is likely other motoring offences were being committed.
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Possible the driver is a member of the travelling community, in which case it is likely other motoring offences were being committed.
Or the legality of the vehicle on the road.
This is from experience. The two local traveller sites where the same vans and caravans are year round all the road vehicles aren't on the insurance database.
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Before you go and stake out Keston Showman's Ground it could have just been a dick driving a car. Car drivers are generally accomodating round there, but it's the time of year when dickishness abounds sadly
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Before you go and stake out Keston Showman's Ground it could have just been a dick driving a car. Car drivers are generally accomodating round there, but it's the time of year when dickishness abounds sadly
I've got no intention of staking out anywhere. I would just like the police to do something that makes him think twice before driving like that again.
Jane said he was already angry because he'd swerved round a car creeping out of a junction (which is why she was driven off the road) and he did that angry driver thing of accelerating off aggressively after, except I appeared around the bend which rather ruined it for him. She said she yelled at him to slow down because she knew I was a few seconds behind on the narrowest part of the lane and was worried for me, but if he heard he certainly didn't care.
That lane is on the regular route of club runs such as Penge CC and if there'd been a bunch of them coming down it they'd probably have been going rather faster than I was. Equally a car would likely have been going faster and not had the option of falling in a hedge. It's fortunate that I was creeping down it on the brakes or it would have been a head on collision. I remember being really surprised that he didn't slow and stop as soon as he rounded the bend and saw me, because to be fair that is what most drivers do on roads as narrow as that, and I always thank them.
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There are, alas, twats. I live in the area (ish, about 8 miles away, but it's much the same) and the admix of narrow rural lanes and close proximity of urban environments provide ideal opportunities for advanced twattishness. Urban youth + crappy Audi + tinted windows + delusions of rally driver prowess. Plus a fair number of stolen cars like to organize their get-togethers in New Addington.
We drove back along the same lanes (Laynham's Road from Hayes) on Sunday and there was an obligatory twat behind us, trying to get by despite the fact we were moving at a reasonable pace (he started flicking his headlights onto beam). Fortunately, he turned off down King Henry's Drive before the obligatory stupid overtake.
It's unfortunate, but they know there is little chance of encountering a police car.
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As suspected, police are going to do sod all.
'Insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction'.
So if you have foreign plates feel free to hoon it round blind bends, swearing and shouting at people for simply daring to exist and clipping them when you drive off - it's all good, no one minds.
They've sent several Notices of Intended Prosecution out to people for less (IMO) in the past few month, so I can't help but feel the foreign plates put it in the 'too difficult' pile.
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Not surprised but still >:(
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Boo bloody hiss. V poor show. 0/10
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Yes, that's not a good response.
I'll bet those foreign plates are here all the time...
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Thanks guys.
The LCC noticed me tweeting about it and are going to look into the issue of drivers with foreign plates seemingly having immunity, given how common they are in London. I'm not expecting much to come of this but it's something.
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Can you 'appeal' the police decision and ask for reasoning given how aggressive MR Forrin plates was? It might not get knocked back so much at 2nd level.
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It never hurts to remind them that the FoI requests are in the post and you'll be publishing the results. Even if you're lying, they're the Met, it's not like they'll be investigating.
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I've responded to say how disappointing this is and reminding them that in previous cases where they've decided it's not bad enough for a NIP they've at least written a letter warning them about 'their manor(sic) of driving', which I've always accepted because at least that might give some drivers pause for thought. I've asked why this is not an option in this case.
Cc'ed my contact at LCC in who also responded and asked whether their decision was influenced by the foreign plates making contacting them too difficult (ha, as if they'll admit to that!)
FOI is an interesting avenue which I may well do for real. I don't like doing that lightly; as a public sector employee I know how they add to workloads when you're already pushed, but I really am concerned that this guy will kill someone one day.
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I understand, but sadly it's only through public pressure that they're not swanking around like they're still in a forgotten episode of the Sweeney. Some of them, anyway.
I think that when people are operating vehicles in a way that endangers others, it's never an option to do nothing. Over 100 people a year die on London's roads and ~4,000 are seriously injured. That more people than get stabbed to death and that's frequently cited as a 'epidemic of violence' and endless column inches are dedicated to 'something must be done.' But hit someone with a vehicle, they might write a letter or a have a chat, or pipe up the 'no chance of a conviction'. We need to get out of that mode.
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If, as I suspect, the driver was from "that" community, the police won't want to get involved as it will take 20 of them in riot gear just to turn up and have a word. Normal Irish visitors don't behave like that.
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They responded to say that they have no way of finding out the driver's address on their database so that's that, but in any case I've 'not got an independent witness' so even if they did they couldn't do anything.
This is balls because in the dozen or so NIPs they've sent out for close passes /people almost knocking me off on roundabouts etc, there was also no independent witness - except my two cameras.
I'm not surprised. When I was a teen I was hit by a RLJer on the wrong side of the road while on a crossing, who did not stop but 20 mins later reported his car stolen (funny that). Exactly the same shrug of the shoulders from the police 'nothing we can do'. I was pretty busted up by that as I took a ride on his bonnet and smashed his windscreen before flying off onto the road (luckily my leg and collarbone took the brunt of the impact and broke, rather than my head) but no fucks were given. I'd hoped maybe things had changed in 20-odd years.
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They responded to say that they have no way of finding out the driver's address on their database so that's that
FFS, are relations so bad with Ireland these days that they can't ask them?
Maybe send this to the Daily Mail. I guess they hate cyclists, but surely they hate foreigners more! Bloody foreigners coming over here and bullying our cyclists. etc etc...
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Law Society Gazette undated but before Brexit. EU Directive which was overidden by European Court of Justice due to privacy concerns and guess which country had an opt out anyway. Interesting article. Note high incidence of offences by visiting vehicles.
So what does the annulled directive do? It sets up a procedure for the exchange of information between member states in relation to eight road traffic offences (speeding, non-use of a seat-belt, failing to stop at a red traffic light, drink-driving, driving under the influence of drugs, failing to wear a crash helmet, use of a forbidden lane and illegally using a mobile telephone). The member states can access each other’s national data on vehicle registration in order to determine the person liable for the offence.
https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/commentary-and-opinion/road-traffic-offences-in-the-eu/5041318.article (https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/commentary-and-opinion/road-traffic-offences-in-the-eu/5041318.article)
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So, the police are basically saying that if you don't have a UK-registered car, you can do anything with impunity? I'd file that under astounding.
The 'independent witness' is wonk anyway. I don't know what 'independent' means and witnesses are broadly pointless, more so if you have objective camera evidence.
Years ago, in my only car-related incident in London, where I had a nice slide across a bonnet when a car pulled out in front of me, I watched the driver drop a large joint down a storm drain. I pointed that out to officers at the time. Imagine later, when I asked them about their decision to take no further action that they had 'no record' of drugs and the officers had no reason to 'suspect drugs were involved.' They also seemed quite happy to accept that the driver had 'borrowed' a car that wasn't his and didn't seem to be insured to drive (apparently he'd borrowed it from a friend's garage while his car was fixed and the insurance paperwork had been mixed up, and well, we all believe that don't we?)
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Am sorry that you had to deal with a backward road user.
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As suspected, police are going to do sod all.
'Insufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction'.
So if you have foreign plates feel free to hoon it round blind bends, swearing and shouting at people for simply daring to exist and clipping them when you drive off - it's all good, no one minds.
They've sent several Notices of Intended Prosecution out to people for less (IMO) in the past few month, so I can't help but feel the foreign plates put it in the 'too difficult' pile.
That is standard MET police practice, as you mentioned they still won't do anything even if there is damage.
But I would keep complaining, if you have the energy. In the past I have not.
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So, the police are basically saying that if you don't have a UK-registered car, you can do anything with impunity? I'd file that under astounding.
It is astounding and it is also terrifying given that they are not an uncommon sight in London. Presumably they can also do things like speed, park where they like and drive through congestion charge zones etc, immune to the cameras.
I'll try to summon the energy to keep complaining and apparently LCC are going to bring it up at their 'Vision Zero' meeting with them.
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Useful to know. Next time I do a drive by shooting I'll make sure I have some foreign plates!
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So, the police are basically saying that if you don't have a UK-registered car, you can do anything with impunity? I'd file that under astounding.
It is astounding and it is also terrifying given that they are not an uncommon sight in London. Presumably they can also do things like speed, park where they like and drive through congestion charge zones etc, immune to the cameras.
I'll try to summon the energy to keep complaining and apparently LCC are going to bring it up at their 'Vision Zero' meeting with them.
I think this has pretty much always been the case, unfortunately. I didn't know the data sharing directive had been annulled (is that annulled throughout the EU though?) but obviously it ceases to apply from 1st January. And Flatus's post implies this vehicle is not actually registered in Ireland either.
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Not exactly, it might be that NSTN misread the plate. All I did was enter the number she cited.
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I've definitely not misread the plate, the registration itself was clear enough on the video. It was just the smaller country code that was hard to make out.
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Ah, there we go then. Unless I misentered them, looks like something dodgy afoot.
Cue Roger.