Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => Audax => Topic started by: 321up on 28 April, 2015, 10:42:26 am
-
I've been using google classic maps for planning DIY Audax's. Today google maps loaded to an new interface. I tried to switch back to classic maps but it gave me a 'Lite Mode' instead :'(. Perhaps I did something wrong ???
Does the new google maps or Lite mode work for planning and submitting DIY Audax routes?
-
There is an option to change from "lite" back to proper classic. I used it yesterday and it worked ok after I changed.
-
or bookmark this
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.0369215,-71.6835014&z=8&output=classic&dg=opt
-
or bookmark this
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.0369215,-71.6835014&z=8&output=classic&dg=opt
That link worked, thanks :thumbsup:. I couldn't see an option for classic mode from lite mode.
I hacked the url to get to the co.uk site...
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=classic&dg=opt (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=classic&dg=opt)
-
It's the little lightning in a circle icon, bottom right next to the man/woman/person type thing.
-
It's the little lightning in a circle icon, bottom right next to the man/woman/person type thing.
I thought that I tried that and it took me back to the new google maps, there may have been an option that did not notice. I don't know why the url that I had been using to load classic maps stopped working (i.e. got redirected to new maps). I'd better get my DIY routes done soon whilst classic maps is still working...
-
I had this email through a while back. Might it be related to what you're seeing 321up?
Hi,
A few months ago, your custom maps were upgraded to the new, more powerful Google My Maps.
If you’re happy with the way that your maps upgraded, great! You don’t need to do anything else.
If you aren't happy with the way that your maps upgraded, you can download the original, pre-upgrade version of your maps as KML files from within the new My Maps. These files will be available only until June 1st, 2015. After June 1st, the pre-upgrade version of the KML files will be removed.
Download your map's data
Open the new My Maps.
Click Open a map.
Pick the map with the data that you want to export.
Click Select to open.
Click the map settings .
To download your original data, click Download classic My Maps data. To export the current map, click Export to KML.
Even after June 1st, 2015, you can still download the current version of your maps as KML files. Only the pre-upgrade data will be removed.
Thanks,
The My Maps team
-
Also being discussed at
http://www.audax.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=268.0
-
Yep your right it does't work.
-
or bookmark this
https://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.0369215,-71.6835014&z=8&output=classic&dg=opt
That link worked, thanks :thumbsup:. I couldn't see an option for classic mode from lite mode.
I hacked the url to get to the co.uk site...
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=classic&dg=opt (https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=classic&dg=opt)
:(
Neither work anymore.
Vale, classic google maps
-
this works for me google.com/lochp centres on usa
-
This still works: https://maps.google.com/maps?output=classi
-
Excellent - though I'm not doing any DIYs, so not immediately useful to me.
thanks.
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?output=classi works too, and centres in the UK (london for me, but that's based on location)
-
I'm going to start using Bing Maps I think. It allows me to put in more than 10 waypoints which the new Google Maps doesn't do. And it gives me the option for an Ordnance Survey map display, which I find very useful. If I need to check out particular junctions etc then I'll use Google Maps for the Streetview.
-
I'm starting to use gpxeditor for the whole route planning process, it too has OS maps. The developer is sympathetic to the needs of Audaxers and I'm confident that it will remain fit for purpose. Big companies such as Google/Microsoft/etc just don't care about the needs of a small group of their users. Which ever software you use for DIY Audax route planning you need to be confident that it gives you the shortest walking distance and that you can provide the DIY Organiser with the information that they need for your entry in a format that suits them (e.g. traditionally a google maps url). I'll be defining my controls as waypoints in gpxeditor and I have a way to generate a google maps url from waypoints in gpx format.
-
Is ridewithgsp set to walking going to be a viable alternative to classic googlemaps for DIYing?
-
ridewithgypsies?
"I see a right turn approaching in your near future"
(http://programmaticadvertising.org/content/uploads/2015/01/crystal-ball-prediction1.jpg)
-
strava route creator is pretty good, as is GPSIEs and bikeroutetoaster and GPX editor. I personally hated the google maps creator and, my only attempt at a 100km DIY ended up as nearly 140 to get enough checkpoints in.
I do not understand the desire to continue with the google maps.
-
Why google maps?
Largely because the DIY entry form is aligned with how you enter information into the Google Maps interface. This made it very easy to come up with and show routes to the DIY organiser. Very intuitive and well designed piece of "free" online software.
No doubt I will get used to the alternatives, but atm GPXeditor feels like it will need too much investment of my time.
-
Is ridewithgsp set to walking going to be a viable alternative to classic googlemaps for DIYing?
Yes: I did some comparisons with RWGPS set to walking compared to Google Maps Classic set to walking (before the changeover) and they were identical. From what I can tell, for the time being, RWGPS and other mapping services that use Google Maps through an API will continue to be able to provide the Classic experience.
It's definitely viable; whether it's accepted by the DIY orgs is another question.
-
What's the problem with the new Google maps? AFAICS the only difference is the new one allows you to tilt the angle when using the satellite view and it has a different 'turn' button.
-
viamichelin seems to still do what it says on the tin; ie shortest distance when set to cycling. It was my gold standard as a DIY / ECE org as although not quite as kosher as MS Autoroute it was free and universally available
-
What's the problem with the new Google maps? AFAICS the only difference is the new one allows you to tilt the angle when using the satellite view and it has a different 'turn' button.
No more that 10 controls allowed - and if you load an old link it silently removes the extra ones leading to some frustration.
However, it is possible to concatenate multiple routes together - this is is how I try and snap TG's track to the road, but can't see a way of doing this within GMaps itself.
-
No more than 10 controls should see you up to a 600km ride.
Call it discipline.
-
This appears to be working:
https://maps.google.com/maps/myplaces?dg=feature
Andy Corless
-
Yeahbut I think you'll find the link it generates takes you into New Google Maps where it has a maximum of 10 controls (9 plus the last one). Thats what it did when I last looked, anyway.
-
https://www.change.org/p/tell-google-bring-back-classic-google-maps
-
Good News and Bad News...
Elizabeth Kricfalusi
United States
5 Jun 2015 — The good news is we've passed the 10K mark for petition signatures. Woo-hoo!
The bad news is that Google has slowly been turning the tap off on working Classic Maps URLs and the only one left that I can get to work is http://www.google.com/maps/myplaces.
I'm working on a couple of things to try to get some more momentum behind our efforts and hope to announce them on Monday. Stay tuned!
=============
10K is a nice number but not many compared to the Google userbase, alas. Still, better to light a single candle...
I'm bewildered by Google withdrawing GMC. Those with long memories will remember that when Google launched its USP was a clean and simple interface. Forget New Google Maps, it feels like we need a New Google!
-
10k IS a nice number, and may well grow hugely.
Put aside your cynicism about these petitions - google are VERY interested in their users' views, are a flexible company, and are capable of very fast change.
This is not like whining to government about something etched in stone.
-
I've just been in googłe maps and it was quite happy me adding 17 controls / destination points. So not sure where people are seeing this 10 limit.
-
Is there a confusion between 'pull points' added to force a reroute, and destination points?
-
Is there a confusion between 'pull points' added to force a reroute, and destination points?
The above was 17 destination points, not pull / drag points.
-
Quite - that's why I was enquiring if there was a confusion (among some other posters).
-
I find that after 10 dests the 'add dest' link disappears'
Attempting to open a google maps classic link with more than 10 dests , gives the start 2-9 then the last dest. IME, YMMV
Paul
-
This appears to be working:
www.google.com/maps/mmtypeanythinghere
Andy Corless
-
Organisers will need to be aware. I've found the new "google maps" to be out of range by up to 10% whilst route checking for my events. The most accurate alternative I've found so far is bing maps: www.bing.com/maps. Not exactly shakespeare but it'll have to do (for now).
Andy Corless
-
I've only just discovered that classic gmaps is no more. Is there any word on whether the current gmaps (walking mode) is the new audax route e.g. DIY by GPS creating default?
-
Definite news is awaited.
Meanwhile the current Gmaps (walking) does a fair job, as does Bing, and possibly others. But there's currently no agreed standard for working out "shortest road distance between controls".
An entry with a "Mandatory Route" may be possible ahead of its official introduction; this avoids the above problem.
-
Are mandatory routes on the way? I've been playing around with new gmaps and trying to construct a local 300km DIYxGPS, but in any event finding that I need to pin the route down on gmaps with more (x13) 'controls' to be able to cycle the roads I wish too, without going to far over distance. Though at least an over distance 300km off ~330km, had the benefit of being a Godwin unit. I keep telling myself that it must be time i had a go at this distance...
-
My understanding is that organisers will determine if events have mandatory routes or not. For the Cambrian Series the routes will remain free although suggested routes are provided via Google Maps links.
One solution over the Goggle Maps problem is to split the ride into two, three sections, or even more sections, each of which can have the 10 points / way marks. Its a nuisance. I've found that I've gradually become more deft with the new version and its foibles. I toggle between the car and the bike versions. The good bit about the bike version is it now gives an estimate of the ascent (which surprisingly looks like it under reads the contour count), but the bad news is that it seems to be built up on other bike routes that have been entered so it leads to some weird selections. It can also occasionally still pick up routes that are only suitable for off-road machines. It does seem to learn though. Some of the Cambrian routes now appear to come up automatically (though that might must be my personal google preferences)
-
I think the AGM cemented mandatory routes for DIY by GPS in place if you choose to do it this way - submit a route and then ride it and if you don't stray off the predicted course you will be fine. You don't need controls at all.
At least, that's my understanding of it though I haven't done one myself yet. Best speak to your DIY organiser.
The only ambiguity lies in what happens if you're way is blocked and you have to find another way, but that's been discussed at length elsewhere
-
Are mandatory routes on the way? I've been playing around with new gmaps and trying to construct a local 300km DIYxGPS, but in any event finding that I need to pin the route down on gmaps with more (x13) 'controls' to be able to cycle the roads I wish too, without going to far over distance. Though at least an over distance 300km off ~330km, had the benefit of being a Godwin unit. I keep telling myself that it must be time i had a go at this distance...
Andy,
Just ride The Dean or the Cheddar Gorge perms. Both are gorgeous and pass within a few km of you.
Once you've done those you can waste your time on more complex past-times :)
-
A tool to support DIYxGPS organisers in validating mandatory routes is very much 'in progress'.
In the meantime some DIYxGPS organisers have indicated that they can accept entries on the basis of a .gpx track (as opposed to a gmaps URL) but the rider would still need to nominate some controls (at intervals of between 50km and 80km)
-
Matt. I think the Dean perm is no more as the organiser stepped down and only the calendar event found a new home? Although could be DIYd
-
Matt. I think the Dean perm is no more as the organiser stepped down and only the calendar event found a new home? Although could be DIYd
EEk - you could be right.
That makes the DIY approach almost more attractive. The routesheet is easily obtainable.
-
I like the sound of a mandatory track DIYxGPS. Had a bit of a play with new Gmaps & Bing walking modes. IME trying to work with the walking-mode distance between specific controls, while in tandem attempting to plot a route with roads that one prefers to cycle onand not going too far overdistance, can be pretty tricky. Seems to be harder to construct a good DIYxGPS in some regions owing to the pattern/density of A-roads. Re. mandatory routes, I normally carry my smartphone with spare battery, so could use this as back-up should I notice my Etrex fail. My guess is that if a road closure forced a detour, it would still be acceptable if the gpx track showed >than attempted distance...
Matt - re Dean300 I'd prolly prefer to tackle a later season & flatter, local 300Km as my first...
-
I thought Google Maps was irretrievable broken for Audax purposes. I remembered this thread from when it all went belly up, with all the bemoaning about it being the end of DIY Perms as we knew it.
I'm just in the process of planning my York Summer Dart route, and I've very successfully plotted onto Google Maps what I intend with no trouble at all, and I'm now wondering what all the fuss was about. I have 7 controls (including start and finish) in walking mode, and it's giving me what looks to be a reliable shortest-distance route for over 300km. My actual ride will be more than that of course, but with careful positioning of my controls my actual is within 5% over the minimum which I find quite acceptable.
On re-reading the thread, I see that the problem was that there is now a maximum of 10 controls, which now leaves me quite perplexed. Surely any ride of up to 300km which needs more than 10 controls isn't really an Audax, it's just a bike ride. If it's a 600, then plan it in two separate files of 10 controls each. My own Pair of Kirtons 600 Perm (http://www.delphcyclist.info/KirtonsPerm.html) requires just 12 controls.
We have of course since adopted mandatory routes, something which I'm ambivalent about. I'm unlikely to use for my Perms - I very much prefer to give my rides a sense of adventure, and allow myself to take a different route on the day on a whim (while still reaching all my controls of course so the fewer of those the better).
-
Strava routeplanner 'popularity' mode is helpful - I do find though I sometimes need to move the route off a first pick 'busier than comfortable' A-road e.g. Wallingford to Henley. Agree using new gmaps is difficult, for a minimal control, and <5-10% overdistance DIY route. I look forward to testing a first mandatory route DIYxGPS, as I normally stick rigidly to my gpx track anyway. On the UT200 last year there was an enforced diversion due to power cables down, which added extra km, and I'm guessing that if such a route alteration was needed on a mandatory DIYxGPS, and distance was not less than required, this would be OK.
-
Strava routeplanner 'popularity' mode is helpful
Ooh, I didn't know about that (never seen reason to use Strava's route planner). That's a bit clever. I also see it can minimise elevation, which is sometimes useful.
-
Strava routeplanner 'popularity' mode is helpful
Ooh, I didn't know about that (never seen reason to use Strava's route planner). That's a bit clever. I also see it can minimise elevation, which is sometimes useful.
Also the route planner elevation comes up pretty much smack on what the eTrex barometric elevation records, which begs the question why is the elevation a lot lower if you load the track without doing the 'with Barometer' trick.
-
helpful posts ^^^
think i might have a look at Strava for planning purposes.
-
The wording of the motion passed at the 11/15 AGM included:
"Under mandatory routing riders follow the route set by the event organiser*, subject only to dealing with any eventualities that might occur such as road closures or other factors which might render sections of the route inappropriate. Riders deviating from the route will be expected to rejoin the route at the earliest available opportunity and/or make general progress in line with the route in accordance with the published guidance for the event. So for example, for a regular Permanent with AAA points riders might be expected to follow the set route exactly, whereas for DIY Permanents some minor variation might be allowed subject to the rider demonstrably progressing in accordance with the registered route."
*for a DIY, that's the route the rider entered for.
-
helpful posts ^^^
think i might have a look at Strava for planning purposes.
Having played around with it a bit, it seems to be a useful antidote to things like Cyclestreets that know about cycle facilities, but not whether they're any good. It also makes sensible decisions if I feed it unavoidably horrible journeys across the centre of Birmingham, which most planners struggle with.
Obviously the MAMIL roots of the dataset show up in some places. It's very much biased towards fast vehicular cyclists.
-
I've taken out a gpxeditor subscription which gives me 'shortest route' routing. It still does the occasional marginal-short-cut-over-mountainous lane-when-the-main-road-is-easier-and-quicker thing, but it doesn't consider footpaths as within its remit.
-
^^^^
I like gpxeditor and I think I'm gonna take the subscription, any idea how the elevation planner compares to when ridden?
-
It uses a contour counting method from the Ordnance Survey data.
Seems to (usually) give a significantly higher figure for the ascent than things like BikeHike & RWGPS which use SRTM data.
And, of course doesn't work in parts foreign.
-
OOI, Elevation data from this pm's 28km ride:
Strava default gpx upload = 81m
Strava gpx "with barometer" * = 161m
Strava route plan = 142m
Ridewgps default gpx upload = 161m
Ridewgps gpx "with barometer" = 161m
Ridewgps 'replace elevation data' = 139m
Ridewgps route plan = 143m
Garmin Connect default = 76m
Garmin Connect "with barometer" = 76m
* creator="Etrex with barometer", instead of creator="MapSource 6.16.3". Etrex = Vista HCx