Author Topic: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax  (Read 10315 times)

Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #50 on: July 21, 2017, 08:20:17 am »
Thanks to everyone who's taken the time to reply. I'm intrigued by the whole Keto thing, but I just don't have the focus/resources to be able to make it work for me as my lodgers (girlfriend and 3 year old) are unlikely to want to go full on keto too. I would be intrigued to find out if there are keto devotees with families who do manage to make it work though.

The ketonauts say otherwise, but I'm absolutely convinced of the benefits of going "part-keto"; cut right back on your everyday sugar, do more fasted riding, and fuel as much exercise as you can with non-carby stuff. There is science showing that some adaptations occur, and they're beneficial. I've certainly benefitted.

<resists urge to post tedious long-distance fat-burning anecdote ... >

This ^^^^  I went fully Keto for 6 months - lost loads of weight... long distance benefits are amazing but I found it impossible to maintain with a pregnant other half and 5 year old child.   Now im just very low carb and little or no sugar wherever possible.   We eat real food, with an emphasis on low carb.  I don't eat bread ect.   I still get most of the fat adapted benefits of keto with the added benefit of not worrying about eating some carbs before and after exercise.

My two biggest issues with a traditional (BAD) diet was gut problems during distance events and massive hunger and over eating once finished.   Both of these problems have gone now.   I feel so much better on a low carb diet on a day to day basis that I don't ever see myself going back.

I find I am fat adapted enough to without carb loading and comfortable with fasted exercise in order to do away with the massive over eating that used to sustain my cycling and recovery.

Im also convinced that doing away with sugar and carbs after exercise helps with recovery as your body has less inflammation to deal with.

What?? :facepalm:

Im doing much better in life now on a fat-protein-based diet because it's packed with more of the nutrients that are used to rebuild muscle, such as protein. The low carb foods I eat are rich in antioxidants, which generate less inflammation and free radicals than sugar/carbs. For pure efficiency's sake, fat burns "cleaner" than sugar in that it leaves less metabolic junk behind in the mitochondria.

I can only speak from my own experience but I find my body recovers better after exercise when filled up with fats and protein rather than carbs and sugar.

no one is arguing Chris Froome should be on a low carb diet.

I will just repeat what I said above that elite performance doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with good long term health.   Audax UK isn't The Tour and fuelling constantly with refined sugar isn't a very good idea...and certainly isn't necessary.

The original poster was saying he couldn't fuel effectively with sugar and carbs without having bloating and stomach problems.   That's the exact issue I had and it wasn't solved by just eating different products or eating them in different quantities at different durations.   A high fat, low carb diet has helped me and many others with that exact issue with the added bonus that I lost loads of weight and became a much healthier person.   I am only offering an opinion.  Do your own research and make your own decisions until you find something that works.... but don't compare elite professional fuelling with good long term healthy diets for amateur endurance athletes.

well watch this and give your comments:

My comments?   Well for a start the guy making that video is one of the most renouned trolls on the internet so I wouldn't be using his videos for a basis of any argument I was making.  I subscribe to him - he's hilarious but only if you take it with a pinch of salt.

He's not wrong in what he's saying - but you don't seem to get that I am not promoting a low carb diet for The Tour.

I am also not promoting no carbs.   I have them when I need them - to fuel performance.

I am not quite sure what your point is - but however many peoples opinions you share isn't going to change the fact that some of us do better with some fasted training and a low carb approach to endurance sports.  I don't see it as being very controversial or any kind of "fad" diet.   I just eat real food, with less carbs than most and im quicker on a bike than I have ever been due to the weight loss and lack of gut issues that came with the change..... if I ever get a spot in the tour then im sure my diet would have to become more carb heavy.


  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Long Distance Nutrition - Audax
« Reply #51 on: July 21, 2017, 10:39:24 pm »
Im also convinced that doing away with sugar and carbs after exercise helps with recovery as your body has less inflammation to deal with.

I'm sure you're right.  Some people definitely have intolerance to carbs generally.  My partner had suffered from IBS all her life - tried all sorts of options - eliminating gluten, no bread, steering clear of numerous different things in turn, allergy tests etc.  Nothing helped stop the excruciating pain & cramps, diarrhoea or constipation, but she could only reduce the symptoms.

Until she went keto, and became a different person as far as her gut was concerned.  Provided she doesn't consume for than about 30g of carbs a day, then she's fine.

I didn't find it too much of an issue adapting what things were cooked for a year or so, but I went down the keto route only after doing the research, and reading various technical books from Drs Phinney & Volek.  Never had an issue now beating lots of people on sustained ascents.

As well as not bonking, another nice plus is that your bike isn't splattered in sticky residue from gels or from what's in your drinks bottle.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

Audax nutrition
« Reply #52 on: March 05, 2021, 01:30:38 pm »
Normally I’d just use a hydration tablet in 750 ml bottle of water for rides up to 40 miles and carb powder for more than that.
Blood tests reveal I’m pre diabetic, bmi24 not much fat but strong family history on Mother’s side.
Would consuming soluble carb powder, ie, Rego or SIS do me harm? Also gel sachets are carb rich too. 25 years ago I’d take plain water and cheese sandwiches. Any thoughts?


  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #53 on: March 05, 2021, 01:47:25 pm »
I am not a doctor but...

I would say avoid the carb powders and gels, because the sugars they contain are digested very quickly. Better to aim for low GI energy sources (so avoid white bread in your cheese sandwiches too). Although I suppose it depends how you're consuming the carbs - if it's just a sip from the bottle occasionally, that may not be a problem. Glugging a whole load down at once, not so good.

On the other hand, cycling is good for improving insulin resistance, so keep it up.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #54 on: March 05, 2021, 02:39:42 pm »
It’s the spikes in blood sugar you want to avoid.  So a little and often and slow release like porridge beforehand I guess. 

Is the diagnosis of little fat, one of your own or that of a doctor and / or one of those fancy body composition scales?  Many apparently slim people carry fat internally around the organs , which is the worst sort. 

Pre diabetic doesn’t mean you will become diabetic and although genetics plays a role there’s still a lot you can do to reverse your bloods.

Good luck and I’m not a doctor either. Just read a lot on health stuff 🤒

I believe Ely Dave is diabetic and does audax . He may be able to advise better on how he manages his food intake.

Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #55 on: March 05, 2021, 03:08:33 pm »
BMI is incredibly misleading.

I'm currently 28.7 - and most people think I'm slim.

The waist pinch test tells you a lot - no cheating, check all around. I have comparatively  little on my tummy, but around my kidneys? You could render that stuff down and run a  power station for hours on it.

Crinkly had a v good recipe for a cheese flapjack

<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #56 on: March 05, 2021, 03:14:21 pm »
Avoid sugary stuff, I base my in ride nutrition on Oatcakes



  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2021, 04:27:30 pm »
If you are exercising at a fair rate while you are eating, it can be difficult to get blood sugar spikes as the sugar just gets tossed straight into the furnace. Blood sugar spikes mostly happen if you eat while you are not exercising or exercising at a very low level.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...


  • Just do it!
Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2021, 04:37:42 pm »
Carb powders probably get broken down into their constituent sugars PDQ giving them a high glycaemic index (GI). They might be useful as a 'bail-out' but you should avoid needing to be bailed out.
Glycaemic LOAD (total carbohydrate) is also important and you ought to moderate this too.

Fat mixed with carbs will delay their absorption and provide another energy substrate. Protein foods can also provide energy as well as being used for repair etc. Proteins are converted to sugars if excess to requirements and are absorbed fairly slowly.

The bottom line is Eat Proper Food, little and often.

Audax nutrition and Ketogenic diets have occupied many pages in this forum, both in this board and the Audax board.

Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2021, 05:08:50 pm »
I'm aware that BMI is a blunt, not very accurate guide, but it is a guide. FWIW I'm 6'1" and 34" waist. Only eat wholemeal bread and not much of that bread either. I was 60 in January and I guess that milestone, coupled with the prediabetes( type 2) and with the likelihood of longer rides soon , has made me consider how best to fuel myself. A few years ago I rode Asparagus and Strawberry 400 km and ate 6 bananas, 6 gels, 4 pork piesplus other food i bought along the way  and was fine. Now I am probably overthinkig things


  • *** fool in a hurry
Re: Audax nutrition
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2021, 05:19:04 pm »
I've been a Type 2 diabetic for >30 years.  What Helly says - eat proper food - is what I do, but having started audaxing with the UAF, i.e. everyone in a single pack - I stick to their planning, which adheres largely to a normal daily meal schedule with one or two intermediate snack stops in between. Halts are usually 50 km apart. Meals are real meals, i.e. anything from pizza to a 3-course lunch + coffee, and UAF lunchtimes are often 1h30 long. Don't skip dessert after a "normal" main course: the fast carbs will help get you going again and will be burnt up before they have a chance to do any harm.

In other words, once you're on the bike forget that you have diabetes and eat like a normal human. Your Asparagus & Strawbs régime sounds fine.

OTOH, once you're back home, don't ignore the rules because you're a cyclist. Seems obvious bit it's easy to slip up. DAHIKT.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.