Tandems on LNER Azuma trains

[bhoot]

Just been reading the LNER website about cycle carriage on the new trains (https://www.lner.co.uk/the-east-coast-experience/travel-tips/travelling-with-cycles/#Azuma). It seems very detailed and suggests that they may actually have tried various bikes in the storage spaces, much more so than GWR's very basic information for the similar trains they now run.

There is a rather intriguing statement about tandems - "Tandems up to 2.5m in length with both wheels removed can also be stored onboard" and then also "tandems are accepted if they conform to the following specifications and have two reservations: 100cm in height x 60cm in width x 260cm"  Our quite large tandem is shorter than 2.5m (or 260cm!) with wheels removed BUT given the hanging configuration we are very puzzled as to how you would actually store it wheeless.

Has anyone tried this out or got any ideas?  If no feedback from here or the tandem club (they have the same statements but no further comment/experience it seems) then I guess we will write to LNER and ask. Although it sounds a faff to remove stuff (as would need to be rack and mudguards too) it could be worth it for one of the longer journeys.

[Kim]

There is a rather intriguing statement about tandems - "Tandems up to 2.5m in length with both wheels removed can also be stored onboard" and then also "tandems are accepted if they conform to the following specifications and have two reservations: 100cm in height x 60cm in width x 260cm"  Our quite large tandem is shorter than 2.5m (or 260cm!) with wheels removed BUT given the hanging configuration we are very puzzled as to how you would actually store it wheeless.

Has anyone tried this out or got any ideas?  If no feedback from here or the tandem club (they have the same statements but no further comment/experience it seems) then I guess we will write to LNER and ask. Although it sounds a faff to remove stuff (as would need to be rack and mudguards too) it could be worth it for one of the longer journeys.

I was one of the cyclists who tested the prototype.  Details in this thread: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=79449.25 (In the interests of goodwill, I was fairly cagey about the specifics of the design at the time, and didn't share any photographs.)

That description seems to have come directly from our experimentation, during which some of us were just about able to wedge a full-sized upright tandem in diagonally with both wheels removed (noting that this was on a stationary mock-up of the train, with no time constraints, luggage or other passengers to worry about, and that some extra straps would have been necessary to secure it).

If you were going to attempt it in the real world, I'd suggest aiming extremely off-peak trains, and doing at least one practice run on an unimportant short journey so you don't ruin any major plans by not being able to fit.

[Phil W]

If they are the same spaces as on GWR, then if you have the whole space a standard length diamond frame can be put horizontally in the space.  Once you've removed the pram and whatever else you find in there already etc.   If yours is the bike furtherest away from the corridor then even with a DF hanging up, it's necessary to remove the nearest bike first, before extracting yours.  As for recumbents on trains, we are doomed if this becomes the only way of taking your bike.

It really doesn't take up much more space for bike to go horizontal with all their bits attached.  Why oh why they can't use the same design as some Thameslink local have round here I don't know.  Two bikes, strapped together, or four fold down seats with bikes taking precedence.  Long enough for a Nazca Fuego, on its kick stand, mine is 2.05 m long.

I despair...

[Pickled Onion]

You probably know this already, but only about a third of LNER's trains are azumas. The rest are a mix of intercity 125 (HST) and intercity 225s. You would have no problem getting a tandem in one of the 225s.

The difficulty will be knowing which kind of train you are booking for - apart from the four "named" trains, they no longer show this on the timetable, presumably because they want to change without notice. Even if you check when buying the ticket, it's not unusual to have last-minute set swaps.

[DaveJ]

We took our S&S coupled Thorn on the train from London to Edinburgh and back in September.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11dzWti4Sb_AUzWzwJLZOqhfQG5MKhSHU/view?usp=sharing

On the way up to Edinburgh I hung both bits up on the hooks.  On the way back (in the picture), I left the front section on the floor and just hung up the back bit.

[MartynA]

There is a rather intriguing statement about tandems - "Tandems up to 2.5m in length with both wheels removed can also be stored onboard" and then also "tandems are accepted if they conform to the following specifications and have two reservations: 100cm in height x 60cm in width x 260cm"  Our quite large tandem is shorter than 2.5m (or 260cm!) with wheels removed BUT given the hanging configuration we are very puzzled as to how you would actually store it wheeless.

Has anyone tried this out or got any ideas?  If no feedback from here or the tandem club (they have the same statements but no further comment/experience it seems) then I guess we will write to LNER and ask. Although it sounds a faff to remove stuff (as would need to be rack and mudguards too) it could be worth it for one of the longer journeys.

I was one of the cyclists who tested the prototype.  Details in this thread: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=79449.25 (In the interests of goodwill, I was fairly cagey about the specifics of the design at the time, and didn't share any photographs.)

That description seems to have come directly from our experimentation, during which some of us were just about able to wedge a full-sized upright tandem in diagonally with both wheels removed (noting that this was on a stationary mock-up of the train, with no time constraints, luggage or other passengers to worry about, and that some extra straps would have been necessary to secure it).

If you were going to attempt it in the real world, I'd suggest aiming extremely off-peak trains, and doing at least one practice run on an unimportant short journey so you don't ruin any major plans by not being able to fit.

Our Thorn Adventure was the bike that just about fitted and this success made it to the report prepared by ATOC (Association of Train Operating Companies) which I saw some years later. LNER have taken this into their policy while GWR have not.
In fairly recent thread https://tandem-club.org.uk/forum/discussions?id=11216, there is a picture of a tandem loaded without wheels and inverted. This is the first real life loading of a non-separable tandem I have seen reported for Azuma. We got the Medium/Medium Thorn fully inside the bike space in the trial by using an Arno strap from the rear carrier to the hook. The front of the bike prevented closure of the folding door but in practice so far the door does not seem to be used on the real trains.
We now have an S & S coupled Thorn Adventure with 50/50 split and that is very easy on GWR IET (same thing a Azuma) provided the bike space isn't full of other stuff. The more usual split ahead of the captain's seat tube would be OK too.

[Kim]

Arno strap

Very useful things when travelling with a bicycle.  I've been using them for years, didn't realise they had a name.