Author Topic: Safety / close pass jackets ?  (Read 5212 times)

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #25 on: 20 May, 2020, 12:28:25 pm »
Not if you're wrong and they kill you, it doesn't.  I was pleased to call John Radford my friend.  I can't call him anything, now.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #26 on: 20 May, 2020, 12:31:25 pm »
In combination, well, that's passing behaviour. It's never that they can't see you or need to be told. It's like the people who ride around after dark lit up like Vegas. Trust me, it's not that people couldn't see you, they can see a bike with a single decent light well enough, it's that for whatever reason they've constructed they simply don't care or aren't looking.

Agreed.  Drivers approaching from behind are scary, but in the absence of serious Weather, they generally see you just fine.  Cyclist 'invisibility' is more of a factor at junctions, where they're looking for cars and seeing A-pillars.  And most of the time they'll still see you, but either underestimate your speed or decide that as the driver of the more important vehicle they get to bully their way out.

Putting yourself where they're expecting cars to come from helps.  Being interesting-looking can hold their attention for long enough for them to get a better idea of your speed, and maybe make them more interested in getting a decent look at you than getting there first.  FRIKKIN LAZERS might wake them up in a small subset of conditions.  But mostly it comes down to whether they bother to look, and no amount of space lemon tactics will help with that, all you can do is anticipate them failing to see you and react accordingly.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #27 on: 20 May, 2020, 12:38:19 pm »
I've noticed that generally you get far wider passes – proper whole other side of the line passes – when drivers know (or think they know) there's no oncoming traffic. This is most evident in two situations: late at night, particularly on B roads and smaller, when drivers will go the wrong side of the road even on blind bends because they 'know' if there was oncoming traffic they'd see headlights, and lately in lockdown. They also seem more willing to wait for a minute until there's an other-side opportunity under those circumstances. So I don't think most close passes are due to anything other than impatience and the deadly sin of holding up other drivers.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

bhoot

  • MemSec (ex-Mrs RRtY)
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #28 on: 20 May, 2020, 03:02:57 pm »
Agreed... It's always interesting if riding with a well strung out group to see a driver pass members of the group with different margins depending on whether there is an oncoming vehicle at the time ie the driver knows they should give plenty of space but won't do it if it involves hanging back to wait for a gap.
(Notes similar behaviour of runners and some cyclists on shared use paths)

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #29 on: 21 May, 2020, 12:43:49 pm »
This is why I don't cycle on the A22. Most (not all) lorries will attempt a very wide pass, but generally they underestimate my speed and the time it will take to complete the manoeuvre.

So the lorry sees oncoming traffic, doesn't have time to complete, and starts to pull in.

For the cyclist, fun this is not. Usually, there's enough time to brake but I don't want to be there on the occasion when there is not.
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Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #30 on: 21 May, 2020, 01:45:50 pm »
With the mentality some of the road using idiots display I wonder whether this would encourage an “ I can get much closer than that, no problem” mentality
A
From the Honest John website, here's a recent question (14 May) asking how close one can
overtake a cyclist on the road:
https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/144937/how-closely-can-i-overtake-a-cyclist-in-the-road-

That illustrates the ignorance and lack of thought well. The questioner has apparently failed to understand that a white line painted on the road has no magical power to protect a cyclist or to make them feel less vulnerable if a vehicle passes too closely. That’s before dealing with the fact that much of the white line in road ‘infrastructure’ is actually dangerous for cyclists, due to being too narrow (I.e. not compliant with guidelines), on the edge of the road and covered in debris and encouraging vehicle drivers in a false belief that cyclist should stay in their place and allow them past in dangerous situations.

I agree that most close passes are largely ignorant and unthinking, even when driven by the self-entitled brigade, but there remains a proportion of deliberate incidents.

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #31 on: 21 May, 2020, 01:50:38 pm »
It's a "you're in your lane, I'm in my lane" thinking that they bring with them from dual carriageways.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #32 on: 21 May, 2020, 08:18:04 pm »
It's a "you're in your lane, I'm in my lane" thinking that they bring with them from dual carriageways.

Yes.  The corollary to that is that you get relatively few close passes and harassment if you take the lane on a multi-lane road.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #33 on: 22 May, 2020, 09:53:19 am »
It's a "you're in your lane, I'm in my lane" thinking that they bring with them from dual carriageways.

Yes.  To corollary to that is that you get relatively few close passes and harassment if you take the lane on a multi-lane road.
And on single carriageways, having no line in the middle reduces close passes.
Quote from: Kim
Paging Diver300.  Diver300 to the GSM Trimphone, please...

ian

  • not a woman, not an american, not a vampire
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #34 on: 22 May, 2020, 10:11:46 am »
This is one of the problems (and why no one cycles) – taking the lane requires you being a confident and assertive cyclist because while safer, you know it's going to rile a fair number of drivers. At best it's an immensely stressful strategy, at worse sometimes even more dangerous since forces an even worse overtake.
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Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #35 on: 22 May, 2020, 10:40:35 am »
I've said this elsewhere before on here but you don't need to tell a driver you are there, as said above most of the time they have seen you and either don't care or are ignorant. I tend to favour most are ignorant but I always try to see the nicer side of people. The flatbed driver last week was just an idiot but they are not all like that.

Breaking up the depth perception works better than telling someone you are there with high vis. I stopped wearing hi vis this winter because I felt I got more close passes with it than without it.

Instead I have the fixed dynamo light on the outside seat stay, a battery blinky on the inside seat stay at a different height and a third blinky on the saddle bag in the middle, again at a different height to the other two. There's also reflective tape sewn into the saddle bag and stuck to the mudguard. A driver can see my lights from approximately 500 yards or more but the different rates of blink and positioning means he/she hasn't got my exact position on the road or estimated my speed until they are much closer. By then they have lifted off the throttle and because they have lifted a bit they actually consider (mostly) if it's still OK to pass.

Doesn't work in May or June though as it's mostly daylight. Then you just need something pointy
Duct tape is magic and should be worshipped

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #36 on: 22 May, 2020, 01:28:47 pm »
A driver can see my lights from approximately 500 yards or more but the different rates of blink and positioning means he/she hasn't got my exact position on the road or estimated my speed until they are much closer. By then they have lifted off the throttle and because they have lifted a bit they actually consider (mostly) if it's still OK to pass.
Driver sees person on bike and thinks;

"I see a person on a bike ahead, it's in front of me, so I know roughly where it is
without being precise. It probably hasn't got an engine attached to it, so I guess
it is probably travelling under 30 mph".

Doesn't need to be over-thought really.

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #37 on: 06 June, 2020, 07:49:57 am »


as I was saying... this week, the good Burghers of Bristol weigh in with their plumbing shop accessories . . . . .

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #38 on: 06 June, 2020, 11:26:23 am »
A driver can see my lights from approximately 500 yards or more but the different rates of blink and positioning means he/she hasn't got my exact position on the road or estimated my speed until they are much closer. By then they have lifted off the throttle and because they have lifted a bit they actually consider (mostly) if it's still OK to pass.
Driver sees person on bike and thinks;

"I see a person on a bike ahead, it's in front of me, so I know roughly where it is
without being precise. It probably hasn't got an engine attached to it, so I guess
it is probably travelling under 30 mph".

Doesn't need to be over-thought really.

I think half of drivers assume more like 10 mph

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #39 on: 06 June, 2020, 01:52:28 pm »


as I was saying... this week, the good Burghers of Bristol weigh in with their plumbing shop accessories . . . . .
That's Newfoundland Way, end of the M32. Apparently there was a social distancing / space for cycling and walking protest there last Wednesday: https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/people-walk-cycle-along-m32-4169381

The site has history. Waaay back in the 1980s, might even have been the late 70s, Cyclebag, the predecessor of both Sustrans and Bristol Cycling Campaign (but also still in existence as a social riding group), printed zebra crossing stripes on a roll of material which they unfurled there early one morning. I believe they even had Belisha beacons powered off a car battery or a portable generator. I've seen photos of this but can't find anything on the web.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #40 on: 06 June, 2020, 02:15:57 pm »
A driver can see my lights from approximately 500 yards or more but the different rates of blink and positioning means he/she hasn't got my exact position on the road or estimated my speed until they are much closer. By then they have lifted off the throttle and because they have lifted a bit they actually consider (mostly) if it's still OK to pass.
Driver sees person on bike and thinks;

"I see a person on a bike ahead, it's in front of me, so I know roughly where it is
without being precise. It probably hasn't got an engine attached to it, so I guess
it is probably travelling under 30 mph".

Doesn't need to be over-thought really.

I think half of drivers assume more like 10 mph

And, for the average non-racing cyclist, that's usually a reasonable assumption.  Except when it isn't.

The problem comes from the "Objects travelling at 10mph or so are basically stationary, so normal road ettiquette ceases to apply" reasoning.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #41 on: 16 June, 2020, 01:32:59 pm »


would this work ?
I guess someone bought and tried it !

(Oh it's USAnian so we'll never know)

meddyg

  • 'You'll have had your tea?'
Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #42 on: 20 October, 2020, 01:36:39 pm »


On the theme of exploiting Social Distancing to sociable cycling
I think I picked this up on Twitter - near Bath ,I think ?

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #43 on: 26 October, 2020, 09:50:21 am »
Not quite the same but I recently got one of these each for me and husband https://passpixi.com/ (a magnetic camera sign that I keep on my pannier although you can also put it on a jacket or jersey).

It doesn't work on absolutely every driver of course, there will always be oblivious ones, but it works on plenty.

You can often actually hear the moment they clock it and decide to hang back for somewhere safer to overtake, and I've had to report far fewer close passes since I got it. Husband doesn't even have cameras on his bike (but is usually within sight of mine) and he agreed it's made a difference.


Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #44 on: 26 October, 2020, 01:13:47 pm »
I read about a woman in the US who cycled with a Colt 45 on full view (holster at the small of her back) and never experienced any close passes or harassment.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #45 on: 11 April, 2021, 06:36:19 pm »
Wonder if one of these would work?  :demon:

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #46 on: 11 April, 2021, 07:07:50 pm »
Anecdatally, when I was a Penniless Student Oaf a friend, who rode a big BMW with a white fairing, painted a chessboard round his helmet and reported a notable improvement in the attitude of his fellow road users.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
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Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #47 on: 12 April, 2021, 10:11:24 am »
You don’t even need to paint the helmet. A white bike, white helmet and a hi-viz jacket are enough. The “polite” vest are a bit of a thing in motorcycling circles. Let us just say that many bikers, including me, wouldn’t be seen dead wearing one. The camera logo on the pannier is an interesting idea. Is just the sight of the logo, even on something that clearly won’t have a speed camera on it enough to alter driver behaviour? Sounds like an idea for a research study.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #48 on: 12 April, 2021, 12:31:54 pm »
Other times, it's just a case of simply  not caring. They want to get ahead and they if they can squeeze past they will. It's viewed as a right. And as no one will tell them otherwise, well, why not.
...

*there are three types of country lane pass in my experience: the wide and slow, the wide but without slowing, and the don't care. The latter seem to be winning out these days.
The worst example of this I recall happened when I was overtaking (at modest speed, having greeted them when approaching & seen the horses' ears flicker) two children on ponies, accompanied by two adults on MTBs.

A shiny 4WD came up behind us, let rip with his horn & forced his way past with the horn going all the way, squeezing me (braking & trying to keep control) into the others. I heard one of the parents swear & both went to grab the panicking ponies. One child seemed to be keeping control (just), the other was in trouble until mum or dad got a grip on the pony, with soothing words.

No chance to get his number, of course. Oh, for a bike cam!
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Re: Safety / close pass jackets ?
« Reply #49 on: 12 April, 2021, 12:39:53 pm »
This is why I don't cycle on the A22. Most (not all) lorries will attempt a very wide pass, but generally they underestimate my speed and the time it will take to complete the manoeuvre.

So the lorry sees oncoming traffic, doesn't have time to complete, and starts to pull in.

For the cyclist, fun this is not. Usually, there's enough time to brake but I don't want to be there on the occasion when there is not.
I've had the pulling in too soon problem with cars, not just lorries. Scary!

I've also had drivers overtake me when I was breaking the speed limit (always downhill, except in 20mph limits). One then had to brake hard at a red light, so I pulled up on his left & told him, through the open passenger window, how fast I'd been going when he overtook me. Frozen, hands on wheel, pretending I wasn't there. The passenger looked interested, though. Went off rather sedately when the light changed, IIRC.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897