Author Topic: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK  (Read 14459 times)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #50 on: September 19, 2020, 09:49:42 am »
Well, now you have become a bit better educated. Onwards and upwards!

If the bowl had been made of glass, it might have been a bit more directly applicable to the UK. Rose bowl flower arrangements are a thing.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2020, 07:32:47 pm »
RH-front brakes when riding on the LH side if the road mean you can control the rear brake while making hand signals. The opposite when riding on the RH side of the road. That is the reason for the brake arrangement convention.

That must come from old days which advised not using the front brake in case it locked up and threw you over the bars. Similar advice was given to motorcyclists which probably led to more crashes rather than preventing them. Fortunately, this is now history and is no longer taught.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #52 on: December 21, 2020, 08:33:00 pm »
Their website now has a popup

“Dear Customer,

due to the Brexit and the withdrawal from the EU domestic market without an Free Trade Agreement from the 01.01.2021, we can no longer fullfill any orders from the UK. Already ordered goods, that can be shiped until 20.12.2020 will be send out. Orders that can not be shipped until this date will be cancelled.
If your goods can not be shipped, our customer support will contact you via E-Mail. Unfortunately we feel compelled to not fulfill UK orders currently, we hopte to be able to ship to our UK customers soon again. Thank you very much for understanding and for your loyalty and support.”
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2020, 08:55:17 pm »
That's been coming for a long time.  I'm not sure they'll ever resume sales, since the UK plan is to have Johnny Foreigner collect VAT for HMRC, and many won't fancy getting into that.  Anyway, if EU-UK post is going to be subject to customs checks, you can add another tenner to the price for the carrier's admin fee, and buying from the US no longer seems so bad.

Also, the pound is only 1.08 euro, down from 1.40 just before Brexiteers screwed the country.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2020, 10:56:26 pm »
That's been coming for a long time.  I'm not sure they'll ever resume sales, since the UK plan is to have Johnny Foreigner collect VAT for HMRC, and many won't fancy getting into that.  Anyway, if EU-UK post is going to be subject to customs checks, you can add another tenner to the price for the carrier's admin fee, and buying from the US no longer seems so bad.

Also, the pound is only 1.08 euro, down from 1.40 just before Brexiteers screwed the country.

I may yet be tempted to pay for visits to my grandson by smuggling grey importing (called that because it turns you grey worrying  about it) various items of cycling kit from the continent!
Looks like you britanniques might be fairly well off with all the cheap fish you'll be eating though!

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #55 on: December 22, 2020, 07:55:01 am »
That'll be all the herring, mackerel and shellfish we don't like eating anyway.  My cats will be pleased, as they like fishy food.

I bought all the Cyclus tools I needed in the last 2 years.  They are literally twice the price here.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #56 on: December 22, 2020, 08:31:36 am »
That's been coming for a long time.  I'm not sure they'll ever resume sales, since the UK plan is to have Johnny Foreigner collect VAT for HMRC, and many won't fancy getting into that.  Anyway, if EU-UK post is going to be subject to customs checks, you can add another tenner to the price for the carrier's admin fee, and buying from the US no longer seems so bad.

Also, the pound is only 1.08 euro, down from 1.40 just before Brexiteers screwed the country.

I may yet be tempted to pay for visits to my grandson by smuggling grey importing (called that because it turns you grey worrying  about it) various items of cycling kit from the continent!
Looks like you britanniques might be fairly well off with all the cheap fish you'll be eating though!

We may be returning to the days when we went out to, say, Belgium with a decent frame with worn out parts. When it came back across the Channel somehow the bike was dripping in new Campag parts.
That, at the time, was about avoiding U.K. purchase tax.

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #57 on: December 22, 2020, 08:35:34 am »
Eww, Campag. Who would buy that shite these days?

 :demon:

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #58 on: December 22, 2020, 08:42:05 am »
That's been coming for a long time.  I'm not sure they'll ever resume sales, since the UK plan is to have Johnny Foreigner collect VAT for HMRC, and many won't fancy getting into that.  Anyway, if EU-UK post is going to be subject to customs checks, you can add another tenner to the price for the carrier's admin fee, and buying from the US no longer seems so bad.

Also, the pound is only 1.08 euro, down from 1.40 just before Brexiteers screwed the country.

I may yet be tempted to pay for visits to my grandson by smuggling grey importing (called that because it turns you grey worrying  about it) various items of cycling kit from the continent!
Looks like you britanniques might be fairly well off with all the cheap fish you'll be eating though!

Except of course those of us like myself with a seafood allergy.   :facepalm:

I'll have to forego nice southern European veg though and settle for turnips and tatties.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #59 on: December 22, 2020, 12:32:52 pm »
I'll have to forego nice southern European veg though and settle for turnips and tatties.

It's OK - global warming means it won't be long before we can grow coconuts and mangoes in Tyneside.  :thumbsup:
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #60 on: December 22, 2020, 01:57:51 pm »
I'll have to forego nice southern European veg though and settle for turnips and tatties.

It's OK - global warming means it won't be long before we can grow coconuts and mangoes in Tyneside.  :thumbsup:

If you’ve ever been for a night out in Tyneside, you will know that global warming hit the area decades ago.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #61 on: December 22, 2020, 08:37:21 pm »
Canyon too:
Quote
Canyon, the direct-to-consumer bike brand based in Germany, has paused shipments(link is external) to customers in Great Britain and has stopped accepting orders entirely from those in Northern Ireland, citing uncertainty caused by Brexit. The company, headquartered in Koblenz, says that the move is a temporary one and insists that it has been taken “to avoid delays to your orders,” although in practice it seems that is exactly what will happen.
https://road.cc/content/news/canyon-halts-shipments-uk-customers-blaming-brexit-279667
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #62 on: December 23, 2020, 03:58:55 pm »
Cicli Corsa have just emailed me to say that they are happy to charge me without the vat on the basis that expected delivery will be after Brexit is certain and I can pay the vat in the UK.

Of course, that presumes that we can get anything into the UK in April and that Covid has left us well alone... neither of which is very certain

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2020, 01:03:03 pm »
Quote
Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2020, 01:40:53 pm »
Quote
Unfortunately, we will not be able to send parcels to the UK from mid December 2020 onward. Quite apart from uncertainty surrounding the shipping cost, taxation etc. after that time, there is also a problem caused by the British government deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world in every country in the world outside the UK which exports to the UK to apply and collect British taxes on behalf of the British government. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company in the world in every country in the world which exports to the UK. Clearly this is ludicrous for one country, but imagine if every country in the world had the same idea. If every country decided to behave in the same way then we would have to pay 195 fees every year, keep up with the changes in taxation law for 195 different countries, keep accounts on behalf of 195 different countries and submit payments to 195 tax offices in 195 different countries, and jump through whatever hoops were required to prove that we were doing all of this honestly and without any error.

Therefore from mid December 2020 onward we ship to every country in the world... except the UK.
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/shipping

I thought it was an EU law that the UK has decided to keep after 31 Dec 2020. It's actually:

Quote
the EU deciding to impose a unique taxation regime which will require every company in the world outside the EU which exports to the EU to apply and collect EU taxes (VAT and duties) on behalf of EU governments. For providing this service they intend to charge a fee to every company outside the EU which exports to the EU.

In addition the exemptions for low cost goods were scraped, £19 and £37 for commercial products and gifts respectively IIRC.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/business/vat/modernising-vat-cross-border-ecommerce_en

Quote
the (non-EU) seller will charge and collect the VAT at the point of sale to EU customers and declare and pay that VAT globally to the Member State of identification in the OSS (One Stop Shop). These goods will then benefit from a VAT exemption upon importation, allowing a fast release at customs.

The introduction of the import scheme goes hand in hand with the abolition of the current VAT exemption for goods in small consignment of a value of up to EUR 22. This is also in line with the commitment to apply the destination principle for VAT.

    Where the import OSS is not used, a second simplification mechanism will be available for imports. Import VAT will be collected from customers by the customs declarant (e.g. postal operator, courier firm, customs agents) which will pay it to the customs authorities via a monthly payment.

Who will benefit from this proposal?

    Businesses will benefit from a substantial reduction in cross-border VAT compliance costs. This will facilitate greater cross-border trade.
    EU Businesses will be able to compete on equal footing with non-EU businesses that are not charging VAT.
    Member States will gain through an increase in VAT revenues of EUR 7 billion annually.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2020, 01:56:58 pm »
Hmm, I turned up this - which appears to apply to goods provided to individuals (as opposed to businesses) and seems very like the system we use for personal imports from the US.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/buying-goods-services-online-personal-use/buying-goods/buying-goods-online-coming-from-a-noneu-union-country_en
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2020, 02:07:50 pm »
Hmm, I turned up this - which appears to apply to goods provided to individuals (as opposed to businesses) and seems very like the system we use for personal imports from the US.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/individuals/buying-goods-services-online-personal-use/buying-goods/buying-goods-online-coming-from-a-noneu-union-country_en

That's current law.

It's different after 1 July 2021 (originally 1 Jan 2021, delayed because of covid).




Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2020, 04:06:57 pm »
Yeah, QG just posted that in another thread. But hey, as she says, for the whole of the EU it’ll be worth if for a business to comply. For the small UK market, meh, they’ll survive without it. Seems like another stupid tit-for-tat UK response. I don’t think the EU are likely to go back on their decision and make exceptions for us. Meanwhile I and others will likely lose access to Bike24 etc. We’ll have to wait and see
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #68 on: December 31, 2020, 12:55:56 pm »
To be fair and AFAIUI it's just because as we we exit in our unplanned (and poorly scrutinised) but very lengthy fashion we haven't got round to inventing our own laws but have just inherited a set and crossed out EU and put UK instead.  As you say, what probably works well for both parties as a portal to a large trading bloc is fairly bizarre for a tin pot banana republic.  I'm not going to hold my breath until it's changed though.  I suspect there are many more of these fukups* to emerge yet.

*Failed UK Unintended Planning Scenarios

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2020, 01:52:39 pm »
To be fair and AFAIUI it's just because as we we exit in our unplanned (and poorly scrutinised) but very lengthy fashion we haven't got round to inventing our own laws but have just inherited a set and crossed out EU and put UK instead.  As you say, what probably works well for both parties as a portal to a large trading bloc is fairly bizarre for a tin pot banana republic.  I'm not going to hold my breath until it's changed though.  I suspect there are many more of these fukups* to emerge yet.

*Failed UK Unintended Planning Scenarios
About 1200 pages' worth I expect.
Rust never sleeps

And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2021, 08:20:51 am »
Yeah, QG just posted that in another thread. But hey, as she says, for the whole of the EU it’ll be worth if for a business to comply. For the small UK market, meh, they’ll survive without it. Seems like another stupid tit-for-tat UK response. I don’t think the EU are likely to go back on their decision and make exceptions for us. Meanwhile I and others will likely lose access to Bike24 etc. We’ll have to wait and see
“For the whole of the EU it will be worth it” ? You make it sound like a homogeneous block. Each country in the EU has a different VAT rate and different exemptions to apply, so you need to work out how much VAT to charge for children’s clothes going to Estonia or books going to Belgium. For example Shimano suppling bike parts to the U.K. that would be the case whether we were in or out of the EU

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2021, 10:10:27 am »
Yeah, QG just posted that in another thread. But hey, as she says, for the whole of the EU it’ll be worth if for a business to comply. For the small UK market, meh, they’ll survive without it. Seems like another stupid tit-for-tat UK response. I don’t think the EU are likely to go back on their decision and make exceptions for us. Meanwhile I and others will likely lose access to Bike24 etc. We’ll have to wait and see
“For the whole of the EU it will be worth it” ? You make it sound like a homogeneous block. Each country in the EU has a different VAT rate and different exemptions to apply, so you need to work out how much VAT to charge for children’s clothes going to Estonia or books going to Belgium. For example Shimano suppling bike parts to the U.K. that would be the case whether we were in or out of the EU

Here it what I originally wrote:

https://twitter.com/quixoticgeek/status/1319205215271292930

It's in a twitter thread cos I've not yet got around to putting it on a blog post.

Yes you have to work out what the VAT rate is for the country you are selling to. *BUT* you only have one point of contact to deal with. The One Stop Shop. That makes it a lot simpler. Sure you're dealing with 27 different countries worth of vat rates, but he reality is they don't change very often, and it's relatively easy to set up in what ever ecommerce system you're using. You collect it all, you report it all via the single OSS. Done.

It all comes down to scale. UK is tiny. Global or not, it's a small market. If you're a small maker of bespoke bike saddles, and you sell 1000 a year, of which 20 go to the UK. It's just not worth the hassle of jumping through the hoops. But as the EU is about 7 time bigger than the UK, you only have to sell maybe 50 of them to the EU as a whole and it's worth the hoop jumping.

If you sell through an online market place like aliexpress, ebay, or amazon, then it should do all that magic for you, and you never need worry. It's only if you are your own online market place, say bespoke-aussie-saddles.com.au. that you have to do it yourself. At least for the EU.

It's not that HMRC is applying a stupid rule. It's that HMRC is applying a rule that on the scale of the UK does not work financially for many, but is there because of legacy of being in the EU.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2021, 10:47:45 am »
The value U.K. bike market is more than the combined bike market of the 23 smallest EU countries. There will be inevitable teething problems but I think they will be short term.

Looking at shimano which by value is 80% of worldwide bike components, after the EU the U.K. is the second biggest market just pipping the US.  (Though the combined sales to all Asian and pacific countries exceeds the eu, they are all separate markets).

It may be there will be some manufacturers who decide to sell exclusively to the eu and not the rest of the world, but I find it unlikely.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Rose bikes stops selling to the UK
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2021, 02:35:04 pm »
The value U.K. bike market is more than the combined bike market of the 23 smallest EU countries. There will be inevitable teething problems but I think they will be short term.

Looking at shimano which by value is 80% of worldwide bike components, after the EU the U.K. is the second biggest market just pipping the US.  (Though the combined sales to all Asian and pacific countries exceeds the eu, they are all separate markets).

It may be there will be some manufacturers who decide to sell exclusively to the eu and not the rest of the world, but I find it unlikely.

Thing is, this isn't going to be a problem for Shimano, or Campag, or any big name. The market in the UK is big, they are big players, *AND* they do not sell direct to the consumer. If you sell through a distributor, then chances are that the £135 quid or whatever HMRC are charging, is not going to be a major hurdle. Annoying yes, but bigger than the total value of your sales to the UK? no.

The new rules are awkward for anyone who sells direct to the consumer, and has a small turnover. Such as [url]https://www.rusjan.eu/?_=_[/img] bespoke bikpacking bags. A 13 saddle bag is €220. If you are only making one sale to the UK per year, then paying £135 to register with HMRC is not worth it. How many do you have to sell per year to make it worth while?

Rose obviously think they do not sell enough to the UK to make it worth swallowing these costs. No doubt other companies have reached the same conclusion.

The target of these new rules from an EU point of view was to get a slice of the pie from all that small cheap stuff we buy from aliexpress and the like. Unfortunately they have kinda shot the smaller businesses at the same time. The simple solution for many of these small sellers for selling to the EU will be to list the item on ebay or amazon, and the online market place will do everything for them, they print the label that ebay/amazon etc... give them, job done.

The rule were written for a trading block of half a billion rich people. They do not scale to 65 million people who's wealth is dropping...

Oh, and if you think this is all complicated and confusing now.

From 16th of July 2021, the EU is going to change the rules about how the CE mark works. The basic principle being that all good that require a CE mark, will also require a registered responsible agent that is permanently within the EU. The idea being that even if you make your bike lights in china, and sell direct to consumers within the EU, you will be required to have someone within the EU who is legally responsible for the accreditation of the CE marked item. Not an issue if you're a manufacturer in China, and you sell your products to Farnell, who then sell them to the end user, Farnell becomes that responsible party. But if you are say an Australian bike light manufacturer, and you sell direct to EU consumers, you have to have an agent resident within the EU to act on your behalf.

Oh, and as for what the fuck the UK is doing with it's alternative to a CE mark... and whether anyone can be arsed faffing about jumping through those hoops in addition to the hoops necessary for the CE marking... only time will tell...

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/