Yet another monitor question

[Mrs Pingu]

Current WFH setup is dual monitors, one from work (19") and a really ancient one from home (17") these are not widescreen (total width side by side is about 79cm). This confuses the laptop no end. Sometimes the display (resolution?) on the 17" one is ok and some days it's abysmal (it seems to pick a different setting every day). I know I need an eye test (next week) but I'm struggling to read at the moment.

Anyhoo, I'd like a better set up, BUT,  I'm limited by space because I'm working in the attic and one of the monitors is already right up to the roof and I don't think I can fit anything wider than I have already.

This leads me to think dual wide screens are not going to fit very well (and I don't need more empty space at the side, just bigger) which may lead you to think that a single GBFO screen might be best, but although I'm aware of (tho not used) the Snap feature in Win 10, the thought of being unable to easily share 'sides' of the screen or screens on things like Teams calls (sometimes when I want to flip between programs in a call I find it easier to share a screen rather share and unshare apps) gives me the willies.

Anyway, thoughts in words of one syllable very welcome (don't assume I know anything about screen resolution though)

[FifeingEejit]

I'd agree that multiple monitors is better than one GBFO monitor particularly if screen sharing for the exact reason you give; it just doesn't let you switch applications without stopping sharing. And putting the wrong thing on screen even though it's a work monitor could be dodgy

No I didn't accidentally share data that only I and 1 other have clearance to see to the rest of the Dev team, but I very nearly managed it while switching windows.


One of the things with monitors is it's not how high it sits, the top of the monitor screen should be at eye level no matter what else varies.
So in theory if you're set up properly height clearance isn't a problem... but obviously you aren't set up "properly" because no one is.

I think I'm sitting at a 24" monitor right now, I'd have two of them, preferably small bezelled HD ones like I had at work for a bit before I was returned to my normal desk and kit.

[Polar Bear]

From what I can tell it is better to have matched monitors than different ones.  Every setup I see with unmatched monitors seems to suffer with issues such as you mention.

[Kim]

Mismatched monitors are best done deliberately, with intent.  Barakta's current setup, for example, is a largeish 16:10 monitor with a smaller 4:3 one in portrait mode beside it.  They're almost exactly the same height (plusminus bezel thickness), and pixel density which avoids resolution shenanigans, and I reckon it'd be a pretty nice layout if the colours matched and you were doing something videoish (which, sadly, barakta isn't).

For general use, I'm of the opinion that you either want 2-3 matched squareish monitors, or one huge one to give a similar area and resolution (and a window manager that can handle this sensibly, which I'm reasonably sure Windows isn't).  Trying to arrange widescreen monitors side by side is just awkward, unless you go portrait for some of them (which is fine for things like code and email, but annoying for more graphical stuff).

Given that 5:4 monitors are deeply unfashionable, I'm holding out until I need computer glasses and can justify something big and expensive.

[Greenbank]

I've got 2 x 23" 1920x1080 monitors side by side at the moment. It's 100cm from one side to the other (with 35mm of bezels in the middle) and the screens are 29cm high. Angled inwards slightly into a V shape (so probably 160^o inner angle.)

That's pretty good but I'd like some more real estate and so when Cyber Monday nonsense comes around I'm getting a single 43" 4K monitor. Twice the real estate of my current dual setup, not quite as wide but twice as high. More importantly pixel size is roughly the same as my existing 23" 1920x1080 Dell Ultrasharps. No internal bezels.

They don't really do 4K monitors in anything between 43" and 33", and by the time you get to 33" the pixel sizes are so small you need to upscale things, which kinda defeats the point.

I'll put the commonly-used things in the top quarters of the screen and less commonly used stuff lower down.

Windows does half/quarter snap/tiling stuff quite well:-
* If you drag a window to the top of a monitor it'll resize the full size of the screen
* If you drag a window to the side of the monitor it'll resize it to exactly that half of the screen
* If you drag a window to the corner of the monitor it'll resize it to quarter of the size of the screen and snap it in to that corner

Once you get used to it it's quite easy to tile stuff accurately like that.

More often than not though the stuff I'm working on doesn't need to be 1920 pixels wide, many websites just have big swathes of nothing in the borders if the window is that wide. This is part of the reason I want to go to a single 3840 width monitor. I can get 3 windows that are ~1200 pixels wide and I don't have to worry about making them exactly tile nicely, with that much space it doesn't matter if there's a bit of space either side. Getting used to not having everything full screen, or snapped to half/quarter screens takes a while but the brain does eventually adjust.

But a lot of my day is spent in Putty sessions, and those windows can be any size and don't need to be quarter sized. I'm looking forward to having a few open side by side rather than always relying on 'screen' to do everything in one window. Again 1920 wasn't quite big enough to have 3 side by side and I couldn't have anything straddling the 35mm bezel gap between the two monitors.

With limited desk space I'd probably go for a 2560x1440 monitor (I have a nice iiyama 27" WQHD monitor on my desk in the office that I haven't seen since March) or try and cobble together something with two 1920x1080 monitors in portrait mode (which gives a nice squarish area).

[EDIT] I don't screen share often enough to worry about it, and Webex is quite good at sharing individual applications/windows rather than whole screens.

[Greenbank]

(The desk is now mostly clear and the NAS box moved elsewhere. The speakers I have will probably go if the monitor's inbuilt speakers are good enough. The new monitor will also sit about 10cm further back which will help and I'm hoping it'll be just high enough to slide the laptop underneath it - I use a separate keyboard and mouse so the laptop lid stays shut permanently.)

[Kim]

Yeah, that overall width looks decent, but I'd want more height.  And less sport.   

[citoyen]

Interesting reading this thread. I’ve never really understood the benefits of multiple monitors but I think that comes down to my personal needs. A single very large screen would be the best option for me, for working on page layouts - it’s good to have as much of a layout visible on screen as possible, at a decent zoom level.

I don’t need to have multiple windows visible on my screen at the same time like some of you seem to - I can see why multiple monitors would make sense in that scenario.

[Mrs Pingu]

It's a bit annoying you can't get square monitors bigger than 19".

[Kim]

Interesting reading this thread. I’ve never really understood the benefits of multiple monitors but I think that comes down to my personal needs. A single very large screen would be the best option for me, for working on page layouts - it’s good to have as much of a layout visible on screen as possible, at a decent zoom level.

I don’t need to have multiple windows visible on my screen at the same time like some of you seem to - I can see why multiple monitors would make sense in that scenario.

The canonical programmer / spaceadmin example is that you have whatever you're fettling on one screen and a test running on another.  Add another for reference documentation, and you've vastly improved your workflow by not spending your whole time flipping between windows (which has the same sort of effect on a programmer's brain as walking into another room to get something).  I find programming on a laptop to be surprisingly claustrophobic, for this reason.

Similarly, if you've got a stereotypical office job, there are similar benefits from having email/ticket management on one and whatever tools you need to answer queries on another.

For academic work, what you're writing on one, and reference material on another.

That sort of thing.

Anything where you're monitoring Stuff tends to benefit from as much visualisation visible simultaneously as possible, and separate monitors can make that somewhat easier to manage, though less so now that window managers have started to take account of screens big enough for more than one 'full-sized' window.

Even your page layout example might benefit from having some notes or references or something on another screen, but probably not as much as it benefits from having lots and lots of pixels for the main window, and since desk space and neck rotation are finite, that's the way to go.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I've just realised that, in fact, my desk is *tidy*.

[Greenbank]

I've just realised that, in fact, my desk is *tidy*.

Where's the meme I made for LFGSS:

[Cudzoziemiec]

I actually prefer the reality. It looks more... inhabited.

[Greenbank]

Since then I have tidied it up. The NAS has been moved elsewhere. The only bits on the desk left are:-
* Monitors clamped to the back of the desk
* Laptop
* Keyboard + Mouse
* Speakers
* Coaster for coffee cup
* Desk fan
* Pen and small notepad
* Phone (charging)
* Battery charger
* Dust

Buying 3 Ikea Flysta shelving units to put everything on behind me made a huge difference.

End of Nov I'll get the 43" 4K monitor.

Then in December I'll look to replace the existing 160x80cm Ikea Bekant desk with a 140x70cm Flexispot EC1 electric sit/stand desk. That'll give me a bit more space and a good variation between sitting/standing during the day.

I'll also tidy up the cable mess below. I'll need a few longer Ethernet cables (need to order some for my SiL anyway) and will attach a couple of 4-way extension blocks to the underneath of the desk to minimise those cables.

[Mrs Pingu]

For academic work, what you're writing on one, and reference material on another.

Copy & pasting from one Word document to another, sod writing every report from scratch. Reviewing images of crystals on one display while looking at their analysis on the other. The list goes on.

I'd agree that multiple monitors is better than one GBFO monitor particularly if screen sharing for the exact reason you give; it just doesn't let you switch applications without stopping sharing. And putting the wrong thing on screen even though it's a work monitor could be dodgy

No I didn't accidentally share data that only I and 1 other have clearance to see to the rest of the Dev team, but I very nearly managed it while switching windows.

What would be really useful would be if Windows would let you frob the display settings for a single GBFO monitor to behave as 2 separate monitors so that you could do just that. Then you could tell Teams for e.g. to share the RHS of your monitor and shove apps in that direction at will without having to share & unshare & reshare.

[citoyen]

Even your page layout example might benefit from having some notes or references or something on another screen, but probably not as much as it benefits from having lots and lots of pixels for the main window, and since desk space and neck rotation are finite, that's the way to go.

Yeah, there are times when it might be useful to have other stuff open on another screen (I do quite often need to refer to original copy in word documents), but on the whole I find it hard enough to concentrate on doing one thing at a time without distractions, so I definitely don’t want another screen for things like having email or slack permanently visible.

Up to the last iteration of indesign, it was possible to have multiple documents open in the same split window, which was useful for comparing versions, but they removed that feature in the latest iteration. Now you have to manually resize and tile individual windows. Very annoying. Multiple screens might be useful for this, but only if they’re the same size.

[Greenbank]

I'm happy to throw money (and my own money) at a good home office setup for a few reasons.

Even before the pandemic I worked from home 2 days a week and was in the office 2 days a week. Due to the pandemic I haven't been in to the office since March 13th. I don't really miss it.

The only useful thing is that when we're not in any form of a lockdown I play 5-a-side football at 6pm on a Thursday about 20 minutes from the office.

My Thursday used to be a 35 minute cycle into the office (with lunch/clothes/etc for two days, plus football stuff). Work all day. Go and play 5-a-side football. Go to the pub. Get the train home.
Friday I'd shake my hangover with a run in to the office (11.5km). Shower and change into the clothes I'd brought in the day before. Eat the lunch I'd brought in the day before (there was a fridge to stick stuff in). Cycle home.

If it wasn't for football I'd happily only go in one day a week or one day a fortnight, just to get some human face to face time with a few people I sort of work with. But for most of my work I never get to meet the people I work with as they live in completely different continents.

Also, end of next year I'll be free of primary school drop off duties (and other things like helping out with the school street barriers). My current job has been great for flexibility but I don't need as much flexibility from next year. If I'm going to change jobs then it's likely to be after July next year and I'm probably going to change to something I can do permanently from home, so I'd like to get the home setup right (this is probably the main reason, and the reason why I'll sort out my home office setup with my money rather than trying to get work to pay for it).

One thing I do need to do is to get a personal laptop (I tend to just use Mrs GB's if I need one), I've got too much personal stuff on my work laptop and I'd like to shift everything personal off my work laptop. Also helps that the big 4K monitor I'm looking at will do Picture-In-Picture so I will be able to use it to display the personal laptop stuff if I really need to (especially if I'm watching sport on it whilst doing some work).

Anyway, enough hijacking of Mrs Pingu's thread...

[Mrs Pingu]

After spending today researching I did wonder if an LG ultrawide might fit my needs, as you can split screen with it. But then I found you need to install software to do that so that's not going to happen on my work laptop. Guess I will just be buying a square 19" monitor to match the Dell one then.

[Canardly]

ITC sales often have bargainous Dell Monitor deals.

[slowfen]

https://imgur.com/y2qcZuW

[Mrs Pingu]

Ok for those of you wondering what I'm babbling about, these are my working conditions (taken in April).

The bare bulb in the top left of the image is hanging from the apex of the roof, so you can see how much room I don't have to play with. The loft hatch is behind those monitors so I have to sidle to the left of my 'desk' to get in and out of my 'office'.

Since taking this photo I have moved the crappy desk the monitors sit on a couple of inches to the left and now the RHS monitor is sitting on a box to prop it up a bit higher. It's still touching the slope.
2020-11-08_02-36-49 by The Pingus, on Flickr

[ian]

I got rid of two* 1920*1200s and opted for the single big screen (27 inch iMac). I don't know about Windows, but Macs let you have multiple desktops and you can swoosh (using the top of the magic mouse or trackpad) between them and even hover much as you'd do with multiple monitors, but without having to turn your head. I've never been sure why more people don't do this. The only downside is that I typically end up with fifteen desktops and no memory of what is where. But it's really brilliant for crossreferencing and stuff.

*lie, I still have work Macbook connected to a second monitor, but that's banished to the far end of the big desk.

[Mrs Pingu]

Apparently multiple desktops do exist in Win 10 but I had no idea until I googled it just now. I still want a separate monitor for the Teams reasons discussed earlier though.

[Pingu]

Thanks ian, I've now got a much better view for doing this week's Graun prize crossword 

multi_desk_01 by The Pingus, on Flickr

[Kim]

I got rid of two* 1920*1200s and opted for the single big screen (27 inch iMac). I don't know about Windows, but Macs let you have multiple desktops and you can swoosh (using the top of the magic mouse or trackpad) between them and even hover much as you'd do with multiple monitors, but without having to turn your head. I've never been sure why more people don't do this. The only downside is that I typically end up with fifteen desktops and no memory of what is where. But it's really brilliant for crossreferencing and stuff.

I combine the two: Most of the windows that live on my right hand monitor are visible on every desktop, and I flip (in a boring non-fruity way) between desktops for the rest.