Author Topic: Which bottom bracket?  (Read 2688 times)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Which bottom bracket?
« on: February 25, 2021, 12:27:30 am »

I killed another bottom bracket...



I'm guessing by the colour the weather seal broke down, water got in, and the thing rusted up. Age of this is... um... well I think I put it in before the TCR in July 2019. So it's probably done something like 9000km. It's an SH-BB52. They are €17 each, and I've just been fitting one after another for the last 23000km. I think I just put in my 4th or 5th. They are relatively cheap, but they are a lot of faff to fit. If I spend a bit more for a Bottom bracket, will I get better value from it? The MT800 (which would match the spec level of the rest of my drive train), is €30 from the same shop. Will I get twice the life out of it for the same use cases? Or is it the point of diminishing returns?

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

jiberjaber

  • ... Fancy Pants \o/ ...
  • ACME S&M^2
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2021, 12:46:57 am »
Over 34,000km on my Hope BB and still going. Which has surprised me.

All I've done is removed and refitted  annually with a clean and re grease the outer face and fit the plastic cover back to the BB cup.

Before that I was getting circa 7000km from Ultegra BBs on my other bikes but I thought I would just keep replacing as they seemed cheeper. My CdF has been through 3  in 21,000km so about £70 worth of BBs

Hope BB seem to have gone up since I bought one, I think I paid circa £75 for it but looks like they are now about £89.
Regards,

Joergen

JonB

  • Granny Ring ... Yes Please!
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2021, 08:44:17 am »
I'm not sure about the spec numbers you've given for the BBs but like Jiber when I started using Ultegra level a few years ago, the lifespan increased significantly compared to the Tiagra level ones I'd used previously. Just to comment on Jiber's point about Hope, only heard good things about their BBs but never invested in one myself.

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2021, 09:17:31 am »
That's a Deore level BB I think. Might be worth trying an XT. Sounds like a sealing issue. You could also flip out the outer seal and wipe a bit of Morgan Blue Aqua paste on. It might help.

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2021, 09:35:39 am »
Has that bike been subject to pressure washer abuse? Are the O-rings on the back of both cranks intact?

What part of replacing it is a faff? I regularly swap a power meter between bikes before rides and replacing the BB is only a couple of extra steps.


quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2021, 11:44:02 am »
Has that bike been subject to pressure washer abuse? Are the O-rings on the back of both cranks intact?

What part of replacing it is a faff? I regularly swap a power meter between bikes before rides and replacing the BB is only a couple of extra steps.

That's because you probably have a work stand for it, and are not propping the bike between your desk chair and a box of tools... while trying not to drop the chain on the carpet...

I haven't pressure washed it, but I have hosed it down with a hose a couple of times.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2021, 06:05:04 pm »
Has that bike been subject to pressure washer abuse?
...

I suspect riding on wet roads without mudguards has much the same effect  :P

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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2021, 06:07:33 pm »
Has that bike been subject to pressure washer abuse? Are the O-rings on the back of both cranks intact?

What part of replacing it is a faff? I regularly swap a power meter between bikes before rides and replacing the BB is only a couple of extra steps.

That's because you probably have a work stand for it, and are not propping the bike between your desk chair and a box of tools... while trying not to drop the chain on the carpet...

I haven't pressure washed it, but I have hosed it down with a hose a couple of times.

J

Its one job where you don't want a workstand.  You want the bike on the floor so you can get a bit of purchase on the bb spanner

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2021, 06:17:05 pm »
Has that bike been subject to pressure washer abuse? Are the O-rings on the back of both cranks intact?

What part of replacing it is a faff? I regularly swap a power meter between bikes before rides and replacing the BB is only a couple of extra steps.

That's because you probably have a work stand for it, and are not propping the bike between your desk chair and a box of tools... while trying not to drop the chain on the carpet...

I haven't pressure washed it, but I have hosed it down with a hose a couple of times.

J

Its one job where you don't want a workstand.  You want the bike on the floor so you can get a bit of purchase on the bb spanner
This ^ 100%

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2021, 06:23:08 pm »
Anyway, stiff bottom-bracket?

This sounds like a job for.....

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2021, 06:24:26 pm »
That's because you probably have a work stand for it, and are not propping the bike between your desk chair and a box of tools... while trying not to drop the chain on the carpet...

No, normally done in the hallway. And since it usually involves fiddling with two bikes and there isn't room to have two out at once, one is normally done without removing it from the wall or the bike pile.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2021, 06:32:55 pm »
Anyway, stiff bottom-bracket?

This sounds like a job for.....

Didn't we have a Bottom Bracket destroyer hereabouts? Will have to check archives...
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2021, 08:22:21 pm »


Sh-BB52 - €16
M800BSA - €30
Hope - €118

If the Hope lasts >8 times longer than the BB52, or >4 times the M800, it's cost effective. Which would be at least 40000km. Which doesn't feel unreasonable... I'm tempted. If not from a financial POV, but from a ecological one. Less waste. I've yet to work out how to recycle the BB's I've used, and have them all sat in the boxes the next one came out of.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2021, 08:50:29 pm »
As domestic recycling probably won't collect them (too solid!) I wonder if it would be possible to "donate" them to a friendly LBS to put out with their commercial recycling? You'd have to be on really good terms with them but...
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2021, 08:59:30 pm »


Sh-BB52 - €16
M800BSA - €30
Hope - €118

If the Hope lasts >8 times longer than the BB52, or >4 times the M800, it's cost effective. Which would be at least 40000km. Which doesn't feel unreasonable... I'm tempted. If not from a financial POV, but from a ecological one. Less waste. I've yet to work out how to recycle the BB's I've used, and have them all sat in the boxes the next one came out of.

J

The Hope will not last 40000Km.

No HT-II BB will do that.
But the hope has replaceable cartridges, which saves the minor cost of the aluminium shell, I suppose.

HT-II BBs are consumables.
That's just the nature of the beast.
Very long service life is not really part of their design paradigm.
Yes, various improvements can be made to keep the worst of the crud out; hence the different price-points, but it's tinkering around the edges of a design that is inherently exposed.

If you want to run external BBs, then you need to accept that they are consumables, and replace them from time to time.




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  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2021, 09:08:03 pm »
^ Yes

Although all BBs are consumables. Its just that ST ones have much better sealing, and aren't damaged by imperfect facing of BB shell. ST BBs have their own issues though...its much easier to bugger up the crank/axle interface. Sealing on Pressfit BBs is even worse...non-existent in some cases.

I'm not convinced that Hope BBs offer better VFM. They just allow replacement of actual bearings...which is more of a faff than replacing a whole BB.

Feanor is absolutely right You have to view them in much the same way as you view chains, tyres, cassettes, etc.




Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2021, 09:22:34 pm »
^ Yes
I'm not convinced that Hope BBs offer better VFM. They just allow replacement of actual bearings...which is more of a faff than replacing a whole BB.

As someone who has Hope BBs on several bikes, I'd agree.

It just allows you to change the cartridge but retain the aluminium shell.
Well Big Furry Deal.

I'd not bother doing that again.
Simply replacing the whole thing is quick and simple, and does not require the bearing press tools.


Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2021, 09:29:53 pm »
And that is why I no longer own a Hope BB.  ;D

I'd put their £40 jockey wheels in the same pigeonhole. Really nice to look at, but zero added value.

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2021, 08:15:10 am »
I'd recommend the Hope BB. I opted up to buy one a few years ago and would not fit anything else now. I'm sure they last longer, based on needing to give them zero attention since fitting, which is not my experience of the Shimano equivalents. Do they beat others when comparing miles per pound? Yes, but I've no idea by how much. What I'll also add is that they're smoother than any other external BB I've ever used. Not since having an XTR cartridge BB in my MTB do I have anything that spins so sweetly.

And they look great if the colours are your thing.

Finally, I can't identify any other manufacturer you can phone ad hoc and speak to someone who knows the product and is able to help you there and then.

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2021, 08:49:11 am »


Sh-BB52 - €16
M800BSA - €30
Hope - €118
Somewhere between those in the price table is Nukeproof, no experience, though I'm happy with some of their other products, two year warranty, might be worth considering.

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2021, 11:12:29 am »
As posted on the thread cleaning, um, thread. Chris King.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2021, 11:16:38 am »
As posted on the thread cleaning, um, thread. Chris King.

~€225 for the Chris King version.

Will it last twice as long as a hope one?

On the subject of hope BB's, people mention the bearings being replaceable, but I don't see them offered on the website as purchasable, nor any instructions to install them.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2021, 11:43:59 am »
Probably - Hope bearings don't have the greatest reputation for longevity.

Hope don't sell direct. You buy through their dealer network (I just bought a pair as I have a Hope PF41 in my road bike). Instructions will be there - if you can't find them email them, they'll send you a link/instructions withing a couple of days.  You may need the appropriate tool to press the new ones in, it's just a matter of drifting the old ones out.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2021, 11:54:04 am »
As posted on the thread cleaning, um, thread. Chris King.

~€225 for the Chris King version.

Will it last twice as long as a hope one?

On the subject of hope BB's, people mention the bearings being replaceable, but I don't see them offered on the website as purchasable, nor any instructions to install them.

J

It's bling.

I don't know about the BBs but I wouldnt touch Chris King hubs with a bargepole. Proprietory bearings. To replace bearings on front hub will cost £100...vs maybe £25 for standard high quality SKF.  Chris King will tell you that their bearings are serviceable..but all that means is that you can flip out the seals and inject fresh grease.  As you can do with most sealed bearings. It doesn't mean that they don't wear though! You'll still need compressed air and it will be messier and take longer than just banging in a new BB.

If you like bling (and it will be nicely engineered) then go for it. But if you want bang for buck and time-efficiency, then probably not.

EDIT:Richard (Rafletcher) will be able to confirm this, but  would I be correct in assuming that Chris King needs a proprietory BB tool as well????  I note that they cost £45...vs less than £20 for a HT spanner.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Which bottom bracket?
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2021, 11:59:37 am »
Probably - Hope bearings don't have the greatest reputation for longevity.

Hope don't sell direct. You buy through their dealer network (I just bought a pair as I have a Hope PF41 in my road bike). Instructions will be there - if you can't find them email them, they'll send you a link/instructions withing a couple of days.  You may need the appropriate tool to press the new ones in, it's just a matter of drifting the old ones out.

I have emailed them. Now I wait

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/