Author Topic: Rough Stuff Fellowship  (Read 1151 times)

Socks

  • Clennel Street on my touring bike
Rough Stuff Fellowship
« on: March 05, 2021, 01:01:31 pm »
There are plans to publish a second volume of photos and stories from the RSF archive.  I backed / bought the first volume, a well produced book with some fantastic pictures.  Details here:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/maxl/the-rsf-archive-vol-2-further-adventures-in-rough-stuff?ref=eoyrh3

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2021, 01:05:50 pm »
  I backed / bought the first volume,

Ditto. ;)   Was slightly miffed when it appeared on ...IIRC Amazon, for about £10 less than the 'early bird' price, but hey ho.

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2021, 10:21:31 pm »
I got the first volume recently as a gift. Really enjoyed it, even though I've never done much myself. My first club was quite into rough stuff.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2021, 09:43:14 am »
Was slightly miffed when it appeared on ...IIRC Amazon, for about £10 less than the 'early bird' price, but hey ho.
Interesting ... makes you wonder what kickstarter is for. It seems that here it is purely another marketing tool.

I've seen it pitched at "early investors"; but I think you're just subsidising a project that might not be good enough to get off the ground. And if it *does* get off the ground, you're not likely to better off than later buyers.

I'm only inclined to invest in a good cause - certainly not something that is just cash for another entrepeneur.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2021, 09:15:23 pm »
If you just want the book and are an RSF member, you can pre-order a copy for a couple of quid cheaper than the Kickstarter early bird price on the RSF website.

I've ordered a couple of books on niche subjects via Kickstarter that might not otherwise have been published, including the first RSF book. I suspect Amazon will have been selling it as a loss leader - given their Kickstarter production model, I don't think Max Leonard/Isola Press would be giving big discounts to wholesalers.

The Kickstarter model makes sense for the RSF books: they're basically hobbyist labours of love; Isola is AIUI a one-man-band, and Mark does the RSF stuff as a volunteer. They're high-quality books, with expensive paper, print, and binding, so the up-front costs will be relatively steep. And for the first one, the market was uncertain, so Kickstarter reduced risk.

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2021, 11:25:46 pm »
I was sent a copy of the magazine this week - I'm not a member, it was passed on to me. Quite a good read :thumbsup:

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2021, 03:18:19 pm »
Thanks Jakob.

To everyone – I'm the publisher of the book, making it with the RSF Archivist. I find Amazon extremely frustrating also, but there's nothing I can do to stop it discounting.

Basically, if I want the book to be available to bike shops, independent bookshops and other reputable outlets, other than packing and sending everything myself there's no way I can stop Amazon getting hold of it. Wholesale prices (publisher --> distributor --> shops) are pretty standard, and the distributor offers it at a price that makes it possible for bricks-and-mortar bookshops to make a profit. Then Amazon discounts as it wishes – we can't control it. There's no way of setting an 'Amazon price'. Sometimes it makes a loss on our books, possibly, but it also exists on extremely tiny margins, made possible by not having physical premises and complicated arrangements to make sure it doesn't pay much tax, etc. Plus it is regularly in the news in stories about poor working conditions.

Amazon makes life difficult for physical bookshops (independents and chains alike), small publishers and authors to survive, but that's just the world we live in. What we would love is that people buy from independent bookshops, supporting their local community, or direct from Isola, but we are all free to choose – and I know from my own purchases that it's often difficult to justify paying £28 + postage when you might be able to get the same book delivered for free the next day for £20.

I'm very conscious that Amazon can make the Kickstarter backers feel the system is unfair or their contribution isn't appreciated. Last time, to try to mitigate this, we tried delaying the official 'release' date on Nielsen, the computer information system for the book trade, so that it wouldn't find its way to Amazon until a few months after the backers got their books, and we will try that again this time. We're incredibly grateful to our backers: without them the books would not be possible.

Kickstarter is a marketing tool, yes, but it is a great way of making an idea a reality. Isola is a one-person company, and it is difficult for me to find the £20K+ that it costs to design and print a book like this. With production money guaranteed by the Kickstarter, we can concentrate on the creative (and fun!) bit, and make the best book we can. Also, shipping money is included in the on-screen Kickstarter total, and for the last book (weighing 1.25KG) the launch mailout postage bill was £13K.

Yes, Isola will make some money from the Kickstarter and afterwards (as will the RSF), but not very much considering the months of hard work it will have taken, nor the ongoing work the archivist does. We're doing it because we love it, and because we think that these photos and stories need to be preserved. I hope that most people will find it's a great product at an honest price, one that will allow us to keep making more such books in the future.

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm complaining! I'm grateful that I get to do something I love, supported by a community of cyclists, readers and shops. But I wanted to clear up some misconceptions, and maybe help people see the system we are operating in.

Thanks all

M

If you just want the book and are an RSF member, you can pre-order a copy for a couple of quid cheaper than the Kickstarter early bird price on the RSF website.

I've ordered a couple of books on niche subjects via Kickstarter that might not otherwise have been published, including the first RSF book. I suspect Amazon will have been selling it as a loss leader - given their Kickstarter production model, I don't think Max Leonard/Isola Press would be giving big discounts to wholesalers.

The Kickstarter model makes sense for the RSF books: they're basically hobbyist labours of love; Isola is AIUI a one-man-band, and Mark does the RSF stuff as a volunteer. They're high-quality books, with expensive paper, print, and binding, so the up-front costs will be relatively steep. And for the first one, the market was uncertain, so Kickstarter reduced risk.

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2021, 07:53:15 pm »
I’ve ordered the book on Kickstarter, as I did with the previous one. I’d rather pay the higher price to benefit the publisher to fund more of these kinds of books.
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2021, 08:38:37 pm »
Ha, I didn't realise Max was a YACFer as well! Though I've backed a few Isola Press Kickstarters, I was just speculating based on my general publishing knowledge and experience.

Most Kickstarter books I've backed have some kind of bonus for backers beyond an early bird discount; whether that's your name in the book on a thank-you page, a backer bonus like a badge or a patch, or something special about the edition, whether that's a different cover or even extra content.

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2021, 10:28:10 am »
You heard it here first (keep it secret ;), but since we're now fully funded we will probably offer everyone a patch in a new design to go with the book.

We're looking into the options… :-)

Thanks everyone for their support.

Ha, I didn't realise Max was a YACFer as well! Though I've backed a few Isola Press Kickstarters, I was just speculating based on my general publishing knowledge and experience.

Most Kickstarter books I've backed have some kind of bonus for backers beyond an early bird discount; whether that's your name in the book on a thank-you page, a backer bonus like a badge or a patch, or something special about the edition, whether that's a different cover or even extra content.

Blodwyn Pig

  • what a nice chap
Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2021, 04:06:29 pm »
Please don't get me wrong, re Amazon,  I was 'slightly 'miffed at the cheaper price, but also immensely proud of the fact that I helped to fund the book, and thoroughly enjoy the images.  I was just surprised that Amazon managed to get hold of privately published books, then sell them at a loss,  very underhand really. Well done on your work, and all those involved, to get this done btw.

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2021, 08:39:34 am »
Can I still back this even though you're over the needed amount? Or would it be better if I brought it from Isola once you're ready to publish?

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2021, 08:58:06 am »
The Kickstarter is still open, I think, so you can still back it. More funding means more copies will be sold than the minimum required to make it viable
I am often asked, what does YOAV stand for? It stands for Yoav On A Velo

Re: Rough Stuff Fellowship
« Reply #13 on: March 11, 2021, 02:40:56 pm »
Can I still back this even though you're over the needed amount? Or would it be better if I brought it from Isola once you're ready to publish?

Please do back it now if you're interested!

As I said, we may make some kind of special add-on for the Kickstarter backers. It also may be more expensive when retailed, and the hardback may not be available.

The support is really useful now, it makes a tangible difference to our project :-)

Thanks!