Author Topic: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?  (Read 12492 times)

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2021, 04:37:43 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

OK, maybe not always.

Still, the point remains that riding other people's routes is one of the main attractions of Audax for me. For others, chasing points or awards is the main motivation. It's a broad church.

My main enjoyment is riding in beautiful areas with some TLC. In the absence of TLC, I can organise my own ride

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2021, 04:37:47 pm »
A fair number of audaxers travelled a long way to ride a National 400 in Scotland a few years ago. I think it was support (relative to an X-rated calendar or perm) that brought them that fair.

Yes but most probably travelled because Steve organised it.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2021, 04:40:36 pm »
If he had organised an X-rated 400, the number travelling to the start would have been much smaller.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2021, 04:56:48 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

I always review the route as I rarely trust organisers, unless I know them well. I have been sent on some dreadful A roads, because that's Audax innit! And the alternative quiet lane is not compliant with the 19th century rules of the game...
With limited knowledge of the area, I can often improve on the original route by adding a few km, just by using basic platforms like Streetview.
The technology is there for anybody who has never been to said area to plot the best possible route... that said, majority of people are lazy or lack that confidence

Just remind me in which institute you practise psychology again?


Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2021, 05:09:09 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

OK, maybe not always.

Still, the point remains that riding other people's routes is one of the main attractions of Audax for me. For others, chasing points or awards is the main motivation. It's a broad church.
What some people enjoy is the chance to chat to strange men in sweaty lycra while eating beans on toast in a village hall, while others value the opportunity to retreat into their thousand-yard stare or to ride very fast in small group as a distraction from time trials or cyclocross. Or to do all of these things all at once. Not to mention CAEK.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2021, 05:15:31 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

I always review the route as I rarely trust organisers, unless I know them well. I have been sent on some dreadful A roads, because that's Audax innit! And the alternative quiet lane is not compliant with the 19th century rules of the game...
With limited knowledge of the area, I can often improve on the original route by adding a few km, just by using basic platforms like Streetview.
The technology is there for anybody who has never been to said area to plot the best possible route... that said, majority of people are lazy or lack that confidence

Depends on the organizer, I guess you get to know their idea of good cycling roads.
In more densley populated areas the red line on the Strava heat map becomes meaningless.

There's some cracking roads in Scotland that could only be added into a route with Info controls, and some people piss and moan about them, it also completely excludes them from DIYs because of what I consider to be backwards requirements for identifying you've been somewhere, the rules for SR600 make using them possible again, but not for points scoring.


Lets just talk about 2 and 3 hundreds they are all rehashes of old routes or parts of old 400 and 600s. I liked Audax but when you run out of new stuff to ride  i can leave it for others.[/b] 😁

That could be something to do with the number of roads?
[/quote]

Roads? Depends where you are doens't it?

But on other point
Aye most of the Border rides are long standing events, things drop of calendars if they're unpopular or people lose interest, and they're still going and people keep going for them, I've not got bored of them because they're bloody good days out.

As for all the events being rehashes?
Are the North Coast 600, Hellfire Corner and Eileanan Dubh remakes old rides?
What about Talla Ho, Braco Way, Turra Coo, Argyll Alps, Tour of the Ochils, Moulin Muirs, Moscow Express, Lantern Rouge and the Hogmanay 100 to name a few?
All as far as I can tell "new" within the last few years.


Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2021, 05:35:48 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

I always review the route as I rarely trust organisers, unless I know them well. I have been sent on some dreadful A roads, because that's Audax innit! And the alternative quiet lane is not compliant with the 19th century rules of the game...
With limited knowledge of the area, I can often improve on the original route by adding a few km, just by using basic platforms like Streetview.
The technology is there for anybody who has never been to said area to plot the best possible route... that said, majority of people are lazy or lack that confidence

Depends on the organizer, I guess you get to know their idea of good cycling roads.
In more densley populated areas the red line on the Strava heat map becomes meaningless.

There's some cracking roads in Scotland that could only be added into a route with Info controls, and some people piss and moan about them, it also completely excludes them from DIYs because of what I consider to be backwards requirements for identifying you've been somewhere, the rules for SR600 make using them possible again, but not for points scoring.


Lets just talk about 2 and 3 hundreds they are all rehashes of old routes or parts of old 400 and 600s. I liked Audax but when you run out of new stuff to ride  i can leave it for others.[/b] 😁

That could be something to do with the number of roads?

Roads? Depends where you are doens't it?

But on other point
Aye most of the Border rides are long standing events, things drop of calendars if they're unpopular or people lose interest, and they're still going and people keep going for them, I've not got bored of them because they're bloody good days out.

As for all the events being rehashes?
Are the North Coast 600, Hellfire Corner and Eileanan Dubh remakes old rides?
What about Talla Ho, Braco Way, Turra Coo, Argyll Alps, Tour of the Ochils, Moulin Muirs, Moscow Express, Lantern Rouge and the Hogmanay 100 to name a few?
All as far as I can tell "new" within the last few years.
[/quote]

The turra coo looks like a new one, when did you start going audax?

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2021, 06:04:10 pm »
5 years?

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk


Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2021, 06:57:32 pm »
I can go to distant parts and ride a route devised by someone who knows the area, and it is pretty much guaranteed to be better than anything Strava's algorithms can come up with.


Is it though?

I always review the route as I rarely trust organisers, unless I know them well. I have been sent on some dreadful A roads, because that's Audax innit! And the alternative quiet lane is not compliant with the 19th century rules of the game...
With limited knowledge of the area, I can often improve on the original route by adding a few km, just by using basic platforms like Streetview.
The technology is there for anybody who has never been to said area to plot the best possible route... that said, majority of people are lazy or lack that confidence
Since the updates about 6 months ago stravas routing is a bit hit and miss. You can choose popularity routing or shortest and express a preference between paved or not.

Either way it invariably seems to throw in a bit of muddy bridleway and the popularity routing can be a bit of a nightmare. Anywhere near a route of a major event like ride London and you will be sucked onto the route which was probably fine when the roads were closed. Relatively near me is the village of Brill which is on top of a mound and lots of people like cycling up it. With popularity routing all routes seem to divert on a random detour to take in Brill which just reinforces its popularity.

I only did audax for the year up to pbp 2019. Of the five 600s I did only one - the BCM was catered. You still get the social aspect when there are suggested commercial controls. I probably won’t audax until LEL as my attention has been diverted elsewhere now.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2021, 07:29:16 pm »
Since the updates about 6 months ago stravas routing is a bit hit and miss. You can choose popularity routing or shortest and express a preference between paved or not.

Either way it invariably seems to throw in a bit of muddy bridleway

This seems to be true of pretty much all route planning apps, in my experience. I've had some bad experiences with RWGPS too. And I tend not to use Popularity routing for the reasons you mention.

Streetview can be helpful up to a point, but it has its blind spots - eg the whole of Germany.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2021, 07:48:25 pm »
5 years?

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Well you have missed some of the best years of Audax up here. Quite a few were one off's, due to lack of support from Audax members . Why would racing clubs ( before sportives took off ) and DA's run an Audax if they never broke even. Our CTC DA ran 7 different audax's ,( a 12hr/ 100m in 8hr , 50m in 4hr standard ride could double as a 200/100km Audax ) last one was almost 30 years ago. Enjoyed seeing the country from the SW all the way up to the north coast, now its almost all based in the east.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2021, 08:00:47 pm »
I think the tlc or hybrid event will be back , but not this year.  I’m looking at (optional) curry pre start and pub post finish for an event in August this year.  Next year I’ll look at village halls at the half way point and maybe something similar to what happens with Fenland Friends and Yorkshire via Essex.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2021, 09:02:22 pm »
5 years?

Sent from my BKL-L09 using Tapatalk


Well you have missed some of the best years of Audax up here. Quite a few were one off's, due to lack of support from Audax members . Why would racing clubs ( before sportives took off ) and DA's run an Audax if they never broke even. Our CTC DA ran 7 different audax's ,( a 12hr/ 100m in 8hr , 50m in 4hr standard ride could double as a 200/100km Audax ) last one was almost 30 years ago. Enjoyed seeing the country from the SW all the way up to the north coast, now its almost all based in the east.

I'm certainly aware that I missed the Duncan Peet and Queensferry events that people still talk about.


Why would anyone run an event if it didn't at least break even?

This is where the problems lie, it's not simply a case as some people are saying of make it TLC and people will come.
As with the National 400 that Steve ran, there were other factors, Steve, National, advertising? etc.

Could go full TLC on all Scottish events and find there's no riders because they're all scheduled to run controls, there's not that many of us in tolerable travel distance of events really.
Got to get the balance right for who's in the area, I know I've mentioned it before but it's how my Dad ended up taking on the Motorsport Authorities when they made the mistake of deciding that Historic rallying should only be about ridiculously expensive cars doing regularities... He won, because other organizers even in darkest Englandshire recognized that if the format of the event isn't adapted to suit the available entries, the sport dies.

Most of the entries I have for my North Fife starting 200s are from Fife and Tayside, a few from Edinburgh and Borders, a couple from out West and the furthest north is I think Aberdeen.
Shree quid and a car park start and postal finish (I'm hoping I can improve on that with either a motorhome or hall finish if restrictions allow)

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2021, 09:17:27 pm »
Old style controls with people in cafes, hall and secret controls cost money. And a few quid for petrol and buying food while in the cafe waiting to stamp csrds. . Quite civilised, no meal deals at the coop or cash machine controls.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2021, 09:40:59 pm »
I prefer to ride a £25 long brevet with proper support than a £5 X-rated jobbie. YMMV.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2021, 10:07:21 pm »
I quite like thinking up new events - Berwick & Beattock, Canny Mans, Mille Alba ( :o), West Highland, Mull it Over & The Mull of Kintyre were all originals that ran on aone off basis. 

Youd be surprised however at the number of gripes from folk scouring the calendar and expressing disappointment that an event wasn't running each and every year.  Ive still got all the details of every event Ive organised and would happily hand these over if somebody wanted to take them on. 

Generally, Id far rather put on a new event and risk it being a bit of a turkey than just running the same ones year in year out.  The only exception I can think of readily is The Port Navigation.  If I could ressurect a resting event it would be the Tayside Transgression. 

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2021, 12:01:26 am »
I quite like thinking up new events - Berwick & Beattock, Canny Mans, Mille Alba ( :o), West Highland, Mull it Over & The Mull of Kintyre were all originals that ran on aone off basis. 

Youd be surprised however at the number of gripes from folk scouring the calendar and expressing disappointment that an event wasn't running each and every year.  Ive still got all the details of every event Ive organised and would happily hand these over if somebody wanted to take them on. 

Generally, Id far rather put on a new event and risk it being a bit of a turkey than just running the same ones year in year out.  The only exception I can think of readily is The Port Navigation.  If I could ressurect a resting event it would be the Tayside Transgression.

Indeed, when I was still running the Maastricht series I tried to introduce a fully new route each year, together with running 3 known routes. So towards the end of my organisers years I had a nice stack of routes which I could alternate. Although one seemed to be the most popular, a 300 passing through Bastogne and Huy.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2021, 02:18:26 am »
On the continent most longer audaxes (400 and 600k) were already quite x-rated, AUK was an exception regarding 600k events with full services.
With the advent of fast selftests, more will be possible.
Yes, indeed, jetting to the other end of the world for a 1200 and returning within a week, that will be something that won't return that easily, so audaxing will be more self sufficient per continent.

Due to the smaller population of randonneurs in Oz 99% of all calendar rides are now entirely unsupported including 400, 600, 1000 & 1200km allowing even the ride organiser to do the ride after distributing the brevets and a briefing. Most of the registration / admin / payment / results processing is electronic. Longer distances are achieved by multiple non-repeating loops from a central hub (often rural town) so riders return to their own booked accommodation (hotel/motel/tent) 1, 2, 3 or 4 times. Earlier parts of routes are common with longer distance riders continuing on as various shorter distance riders peel off along the way. Food / water is purchased on the way mostly at free controls. So other than actual, mostly local / regional, lockdowns covid has had minimal impact. As a full value rider I would hate having to delay some vollie waiting for just me at some control location when I probably wanted to minimise my stopped time anyway.  Faster riders of course have the spare time to enjoy the social aspects of a ride.

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2021, 11:41:07 am »
On the continent most longer audaxes (400 and 600k) were already quite x-rated, AUK was an exception regarding 600k events with full services.
With the advent of fast selftests, more will be possible.
Yes, indeed, jetting to the other end of the world for a 1200 and returning within a week, that will be something that won't return that easily, so audaxing will be more self sufficient per continent.

 Longer distances are achieved by multiple non-repeating loops from a central hub (often rural town) so riders return to their own booked accommodation (hotel/motel/tent)

Yes, if my UK 1000km event gets onto the calendar for 2022 it will operate on this ^ basis.  Commercial / info controls only with loops of 450km, 280km & 270km centred on Edinburgh. 

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2021, 12:06:01 pm »
Those cloverleaf brevet routes tend to be easy to organise but a bit boring to ride. If conditions get tough, the DNF rates are pretty high. I’ve organised and ridden those sorts of brevets but prefer to ride routes that actually go somewhere.

Ditto preferring supported/ partially supported long brevets over X-rated.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2021, 01:12:56 pm »
The clover is obviously very practical and possibly the only viable way to run a long event these days... BUT, it lacks a bit the sense of adventure...

That said, anything to avoid the sadness of a cold Ginsters at a Shell station at 2 AM

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2021, 02:36:20 pm »
I've completed two 1000km brevets in Europe,  only one had  accommodation,  but I could just as easily have booked my own BnB. I carried all my stuff anyway,  don't see why cloverleaf events are the only way it could work.

I did finish the first one despite issues,  because when i was ready to quit it was easier to push on than sort out a train home,  while on the mille pennines I did quit when I was struggling on day 3, 750km into the event and still in time. As it was relatively easy to return to the overnight base.

Eddington  100miles

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

  • Miles eaten don't satisfy hunger
  • Chartered accountant in 5 different decades
    • CET Ride Reports and Blogs
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2021, 03:55:08 pm »
I'd prefer some element of TLC on longer events - particularly those than run overnight.  I've shied away from harder 400k perms and 600k perms, especially in recent years as a consequence. In any case, riding that distance I want to feel part of something and encounter fellow riders along the way, even if I ride on my own.  I've not made any plans for this year as I'm being miserable and not setting my hopes to high - as I prefer to be pleasantly surprised than constantly disappointed, but I expect I will be back to the longer events soon enough.  As far as I can recall there have been concerns about rider numbers in 400k and 600k events, but there have always been (thank you) organisers - often riders of such events, who have been happy to take the risk and set up new ones.

And a good proportion of my best cycling memories are from those long events - perhaps at sunrise on the second day of a 600 - in somewhere I've never been before - seeing the world anew...
Eddington Numbers 125 (imperial), 175 (metric) 529 (furlongs)  112 (nautical miles)

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2021, 07:11:15 pm »
I'm not a scientist, and this may be silly journalist scaremongering, but I read that the virus will continue to mutate for many years because it's likely that many countries will never manage to vaccinate the majority of their citizens. And inevitably some of the new variants won't be warded off by the currently available vaccines, even though they will be  tweaked. So unless we have a competent test, track and trace regime for all travellers, we'll all be at risk. (And we'll all need new vaccines every year.)

Plus, we may well have a large UK population who permanently refuse the vaccine, so we'll be brewing our own new variants right here.

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2021, 08:06:27 pm »
I'm not a scientist, and this may be silly journalist scaremongering, but I read that the virus will continue to mutate for many years because it's likely that many countries will never manage to vaccinate the majority of their citizens. And inevitably some of the new variants won't be warded off by the currently available vaccines, even though they will be  tweaked. So unless we have a competent test, track and trace regime for all travellers, we'll all be at risk. (And we'll all need new vaccines every year.)

Plus, we may well have a large UK population who permanently refuse the vaccine, so we'll be brewing our own new variants right here.

It is a likely scenario, although it will probably impact international travel more than the domestic Audax scene. Of course LEL and PBP might have to be scaled down... not necessarily a tragedy