Author Topic: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?  (Read 12490 times)

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #50 on: March 30, 2021, 08:26:11 pm »
The clover leaf format of the Mille Alba worked very well. Each loop took you into different classic Scottish audax terrain  :thumbsup:

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #51 on: March 30, 2021, 08:30:13 pm »
As did Mille Cymru Mk 1. But, there was a huge DNF rate after day 1, as per LWAB suggests.

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #52 on: March 30, 2021, 08:42:01 pm »
As did Mille Cymru Mk 1. But, there was a huge DNF rate after day 1, as per LWAB suggests.

Not on Mille Alba there wasnt despite very poor weather but i did deliberately make sure the field included every Scottish rider who wanted to take part

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #53 on: March 30, 2021, 08:45:01 pm »
So the exception proves the rule? After more than 25 years of audaxing, the trends are pretty obvious.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #54 on: March 31, 2021, 06:37:25 am »
I don't think John is suggesting his exception proves the rule, he is just pointing out an exception.

On MC1, it became clear that if you got through day 2, there was no way you were going to throw it away by abandoning on the last day. Clover leaf or not.* But the abandonees on the previous days certainly didn't have far to travel once they had made their decision. The weather was great btw. It was the relentless hills that got people.

I'm pretty sure I have one of the most impressive palmares in audax if DNFs are your metric. Several SRs. So on this issue you should all defer to my considerable expertise.  I'm with LWAB on this, in general though. If it was a dull route, or if I'd spied a pub with an attractive beer garden,  I wouldn't be getting out of bed on the second day no questions asked.

*strictly speaking it wasn't a clover leaf, as start point wasn't the same place as 2 night base.

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #55 on: March 31, 2021, 07:08:23 am »
Having helped at the control at MC3, I'd say the rate of DNF is high, regardless of the weather, which was superb, if a bit hot, until the final day. Problem is that you look through the ranks at the start and you can already pick those who are going to pack up. It's a ride with several km of climbing every day, it's not for all.



Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #56 on: March 31, 2021, 07:19:59 am »
IIRC on MK1 the number of entrants (not starters) who completed was not that far off 50%, so many didn't even make it to the start.

For me it was ideal. Great route, lots of hills to give me something to think about, and remote enough to have few pubs to tempt me. I did have a room in a pub booked for both the nights in Llanwtyd though  ;D

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #57 on: March 31, 2021, 07:38:38 am »
I will never forget this guy in a blue shirt who showed up at the start of MC3, unsure of what it was about, where he was supposed to go or what to do. Almost as if he got carried away after his first BP and decided to sign up for something a bit more challenging.
Needless to say, we never saw him at the night control, I doubt he ever made it to the first control at all!

At these events, as well as those who DNF out of exhaustion or because they run of time or will, there are always a bunch of weirdos who have no idea what they sign up for and maybe think it's a charity ride with a broom wagon at the back

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #58 on: March 31, 2021, 09:07:52 am »
I will never forget this guy in a blue shirt who showed up at the start of MC3, unsure of what it was about, where he was supposed to go or what to do. Almost as if he got carried away after his first BP and decided to sign up for something a bit more challenging.
Needless to say, we never saw him at the night control, I doubt he ever made it to the first control at all!

At these events, as well as those who DNF out of exhaustion or because they run of time or will, there are always a bunch of weirdos who have no idea what they sign up for and maybe think it's a charity ride with a broom wagon at the back

Reminds me of the two gents who pitched up last at the Tongue control on the National 400 (2015?) dressed in civvies and with heavy looking bikes.  They started asking us where we lived (clearly trying to see if a bed was available for the night) and were taken aback to learn that we didn't live locally, had driven 5 hours from Edinburgh to run the control and were camping nearby after the control closed.   

They had no option but to bash on a bit but I'll never forget one looking at the other and saying "I think we have bitten rather off more than we can chew".  Both were really pleasant (more than they had any right to be in the circumstances) but Ive rarely seen a pair looking less likely to finish. 

Im sure Scotrail came to their aid.  Dont tell salar55 but Im sure they will have taken the longer less hilly way.       

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #59 on: March 31, 2021, 09:27:50 am »
I will never forget this guy in a blue shirt who showed up at the start of MC3, unsure of what it was about, where he was supposed to go or what to do. Almost as if he got carried away after his first BP and decided to sign up for something a bit more challenging.
Needless to say, we never saw him at the night control, I doubt he ever made it to the first control at all!

At these events, as well as those who DNF out of exhaustion or because they run of time or will, there are always a bunch of weirdos who have no idea what they sign up for and maybe think it's a charity ride with a broom wagon at the back
Reminds me of a rider on Andy Corless' 1000 from Blackpool a couple of years ago.
Aparently had no baggage at all until the first bike shop where he obtained a bar bag, he did make it back on time but hadn't collected any receipts.

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #60 on: March 31, 2021, 09:57:34 am »
You know its funny that the 2 at Tongue never had much to say when i arrived. Much braver talking on a forum. Audax has changed, when the Edinburgh group could only manage to follow the route for half a km out of Gala you knew that points not the ride or experience that counted. Big rides going out on a cicuit are the best. Why would anyone do loops to a central control so boring and its easy to say im back at the start so why bother going bsck out. Audax has lost its sense of adventure. I still say you are only a Scottish Audaxer if you rode the Ower the Edge😂

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #61 on: March 31, 2021, 10:03:40 am »
The French state that routes should be designed to minimise the temptations to pack by shortcutting to the finish.

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2021, 10:51:24 am »
The clover leaf format of the Mille Alba worked very well. Each loop took you into different classic Scottish audax terrain  :thumbsup:

One word missing in title. EST, no West Coast, SW or the North of Scotland 👿

Redlight

  • Enjoying life in the slow lane
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2021, 10:51:59 am »

Reminds me of the two gents who pitched up last at the Tongue control on the National 400 (2015?) dressed in civvies and with heavy looking bikes. 

Both were really pleasant (more than they had any right to be in the circumstances) but Ive rarely seen a pair looking less likely to finish. 

Im sure Scotrail came to their aid.   

I think  I know the two you mean and, yes, they did finish.  I've seen them on a few other events and - a bit like the late Jack Eason - they always "get around".
Why should anybody steal a watch when they can steal a bicycle?

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2021, 10:55:57 am »
Never judge a cyclist by how they look, you should have asked them to show a leg. 😄

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2021, 11:04:31 am »
I've completed two 1000km brevets in Europe,  only one had  accommodation,  but I could just as easily have booked my own BnB. I carried all my stuff anyway,  don't see why cloverleaf events are the only way it could work.

In my patch there are very few commercial premises that are open overnight.   In the whole of Scotland were talking about (i) a handful of motorway Services pretty much all of which are on the M74 heading towards Carlisle, and (ii) those non urban McDonalds that open 24 hrs - Forfar Perth & Dunbar spring to mind, if there are others they will be few and far between, and of course its anybodys guess when (or if) these will reopen as 24hr facilities in future.   

A clover leaf isn't the only way it can work, but its an option that becomes more attractive in planning for post pandemic events.  The other options would be to run a traditional village hall control (which Im in no hurry to do anytime soon chiefly as my other half is in the "clinically extremely vulnerable" group) or routing an event to a location that has enough suitable accommodation.  We used Oban this way on the West Highland 1000 in 2018 but finding locations that sit in that big-enough-but-not-too-big sweet spot is quite tricky.  The West Highland 1000 featured a bag drop in Oban, another feature that Id not offer in 2022 so that also tips the balance in favour of a clover leaf type route.       

Im not convinced that a clover leaf route actually causes more DNFs than an out and back - somebody thinking of a DNF will always find a railway station, a hotel with a nice warm fire or suchlike.

Conversely a night in a pre booked bed back at base with access to a change of clothes etc can work wonders for morale. 

John Stonebridge

  • Has never ridden Ower the Edge
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2021, 11:06:15 am »

Reminds me of the two gents who pitched up last at the Tongue control on the National 400 (2015?) dressed in civvies and with heavy looking bikes. 

Both were really pleasant (more than they had any right to be in the circumstances) but Ive rarely seen a pair looking less likely to finish. 

Im sure Scotrail came to their aid.   

I think  I know the two you mean and, yes, they did finish.  I've seen them on a few other events and - a bit like the late Jack Eason - they always "get around".

I stand corrected.   :thumbsup:

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2021, 01:37:46 pm »
As did Mille Cymru Mk 1. But, there was a huge DNF rate after day 1, as per LWAB suggests.
More likely a consequence of the difficulty,  than the clover leaf format

Eddington  100miles

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2021, 01:41:31 pm »
As did Mille Cymru Mk 1. But, there was a huge DNF rate after day 1, as per LWAB suggests.
More likely a consequence of the difficulty,  than the clover leaf format

I've taken part in lots of multi-loop long brevets and lots of single loop or out-and-back long brevets. I know what I see when conditions get tough.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Geriatricdolan

Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2021, 01:48:39 pm »
The truth of the matter is that without Undulates Welsh brevets from Upton Magna, the outlook is quite depressing and I find it difficult to get back into the groove

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #70 on: March 31, 2021, 01:50:53 pm »
It seems to me that the Audax as Salar55 k ew is never really existed and as LWaB knew it only exists in his part of the world.

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LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #71 on: March 31, 2021, 01:55:44 pm »
Is 'my part of the world' the UK, England, Midlands, SE England, Australia or BRMs and LRMs on multiple continents? All of those apply at different times.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #72 on: March 31, 2021, 01:59:25 pm »
Audax has changed and will continue to change. So the answer to the question is "No". Because Audax will not be as we 'knew' it.

Like it is no longer like it was pre-GPS. Or pre internet.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #73 on: March 31, 2021, 02:01:48 pm »
Is 'my part of the world' the UK, England, Midlands, SE England, Australia or BRMs and LRMs on multiple continents? All of those apply at different times.
Well it's laready been mentioned that Australia is now almost entirely X-Rated seems to have happened after you left, and from what I've gathered now only really exists in the South of England and other parts of England and Wales that the required mass of riders needed to work on that level can easily travel to.

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Re: Will Audax as we know it recover from this?
« Reply #74 on: March 31, 2021, 02:14:51 pm »
I have never done the BCM 600 because I am not interested in fighting for a small bit of space on the floor at Kings YH. The bag drop and the food available is another matter though.  I have my doubts that this event will return anytime soon with so many bodies in such a small space and I can see other longer events having similar problems for the foreseeable future. However, I have always had a desire to do this ride across Wales and will now be looking to ride it as a permanent at some point and will look at other suitable accommodation along the way. This for me (permanents) is my way forward.