Author Topic: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership  (Read 1050 times)

Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« on: April 12, 2021, 09:17:52 am »
The snafu started 11 years ago is now complete.

What are the odds they crank up membership rates again?

I despise what they've done to our CTC.  My grandfather must be spinning in his grave - he was a very keen member.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 09:50:56 am »
CTC was run by cyclists for its members. It has become a vehicle for professional charity workers to promote their careers, a truly self-serving organisation. Having just ramped up the membership fees for the oldest and most loyal members, because they can, every email from them contains a further demand for money.

I hate them with a vengeance.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2021, 10:24:13 am »
I'm not in the loop on this - why not? The website still says this:
Quote
CYCLING UK IS A TRADING NAME OF CYCLISTS’ TOURING CLUB (CTC) A COMPANY LIMITED BY GUARANTEE, REGISTERED IN ENGLAND NO: 25185. REGISTERED AS A CHARITY IN ENGLAND AND WALES CHARITY NO: 1147607 AND IN SCOTLAND CHARITY NO: SC042541. REGISTERED OFFICE: PARKLANDS, RAILTON ROAD, GUILDFORD, SURREY GU2 9JX.
And has a register for Gift Aid page:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/my_account/register-gift-aid

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2021, 10:45:51 am »
Too much focus on services to members, apparently.

ISTR Simon Legg pointing out that serving members' interests was incompatible with the charity rules, and it's finally come home to roost.  Maybe not the way round we thought it would.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2021, 10:47:48 am »
I'm not in the loop on this - why not? The website still says this:
Quote
CYCLING UK IS A TRADING NAME OF CYCLISTS’ TOURING CLUB (CTC) A COMPANY LIMITED BY GUARANTEE, REGISTERED IN ENGLAND NO: 25185. REGISTERED AS A CHARITY IN ENGLAND AND WALES CHARITY NO: 1147607 AND IN SCOTLAND CHARITY NO: SC042541. REGISTERED OFFICE: PARKLANDS, RAILTON ROAD, GUILDFORD, SURREY GU2 9JX.
And has a register for Gift Aid page:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/my_account/register-gift-aid
It was in an e-mail to members, which I didn't get, but there is a discussion on the CUK forum.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 10:51:54 am »
I didn't get that email either, and I was fairly vociferous in the debate about becoming a charity at the time. I wonder if these facts are related? (I don't actually think so for a minute, but it's fun to speculate!)  But, yes, this was predicted.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2021, 10:58:25 am »
I've never had any e-mails from them, just the magazine.  I have now created an online account, which may be a prerequisite.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 10:59:30 am »
You can be a registered charity but not benefit from gift aid (and rightly so). Most private schools fall into this category.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2021, 11:16:24 am »
Here's the discussion: https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=143394
Summary - the gift-aid page only applies to donations, which are still gift-aid eligible. It's gift-aid on the membership subscription that has gone, because the benefits of a membership have to be under a certain % of the cost before gift aid is applicable, and the CTC benefits are above that threshold. Plus a whole load of discussion about the conversion to a charity.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2021, 11:27:12 am »
Almost 2/3 of the charity's unrestricted (i.e. not ring-fenced for particular projects by the donor) is from membership, so this is going to cost them a substantial whack of income.

Thread title updated, thanks, Duncan.
And Darkness and Decay and the Coronavirus held illimitable dominion over all.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2021, 11:43:24 am »
And since the charity's now in charge & members benefits are (& must be, as part of being a charity: the trustees have duties to the charity) a lower priority than charitable aims, that could have negative implications for members.

It was always a bloody stupid idea to become a charity. Having a charitable arm - yes, damn good idea.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2021, 12:14:25 pm »
Yup. All sadly as predicted by Simon L (and others, Regulator ??).

Stupid fuckers.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2021, 12:49:46 pm »
Yes, Reg.

The old model had its problems, e.g. I recall someone I knew becoming a council member & seeking to improve the administration & increase inclusiveness*. He was concerned about shrinking & aging membership - though he was an old member in both senses. I think he got somewhere, but it wasn't without frustration. IIRC "hidebound" was said.

*Led a local ride of a type he wouldn't normally do, just to see what it was like. I met him at the bar of the destination, having been working until too late to join the ride, & he said to me "There are lots of people here I've never seen before! And different bikes! It's wonderful!", or words to that effect. Mad keen on encouraging people who weren't retired tourer-riding middle-class white men like himself, but there was a bit of resistance in some quarters.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2021, 04:08:07 pm »


. Mad keen on encouraging people who weren't retired tourer-riding middle-class white men like himself, but there was a bit of resistance in some quarters.
Now it seems that the retired middle class male tourers are the unrepresented minority in the pantheon of the organisation's causes.

It was always going to end in tears, and those of us who predicted issues can take no comfort in this development.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

robgul

  • Cycle:End-to-End webmaster
  • cyclist, Cytech accredited mechanic & woodworker
    • Cycle:End-to-End
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2021, 04:33:01 pm »
Yup. All sadly as predicted by Simon L (and others, Regulator ??).

Stupid fuckers.

I'm sure Regulator will be along soon to add his comments . . . .

The cycling club I belong to (past Chairman) was a "CTC Member Group" or whatever they called the old DAs but decided, unanimously, at an EGM in 2015, to abdicate and become just a cycling club rather than a CTC group (unfortunately we were pretty much forced to be an "affiliated club" to get the ride organiser insurance)

The Gift Aid on subs was always close to the wind . . .  as suggested I can see a hike in fees that will diminish renewals.   My own CTC membership lapsed at the time the club pulled out and my personal insurance is as a member of British Cycling (from whom I get nothing else, nor am I interested in getting anything else)   The pseudo discounts and member deals from both CTC & BC are laughable.

Cycle:End-to-End     Resources and inspiration for the great adventure!
HoE Cycling Club

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2021, 05:02:13 pm »



I'm sure Regulator will be along soon to add his comments . . . .


The Gift Aid on subs was always close to the wind . . .  as suggested I can see a hike in fees that will diminish renewals.   
I've suspected for a long time that 'members' are a pain in the saddle area for the charity professionals running CUK and anything that reduces the numbers is a good thing so they can concentrate on the new day job of getting grants from local / central government without pesky members asking awkward questions.
Reduced member numbers may equally result in - if not cost savings - neutral costs, as the provision of member services (such as they are) can be reduced to a point where gift aid can be reinstated.
I'm a life member so a double nuisance, i contribute nothing, but cost them the magazine and the other dubious benefits.
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2021, 06:15:37 pm »
It was always a bloody stupid idea to become a charity. Having a charitable arm - yes, damn good idea.
I thought so at the time and now I know a number of people who voted for it, even campaigned for it, but have changed their minds since.

*Led a local ride of a type he wouldn't normally do, just to see what it was like. I met him at the bar of the destination, having been working until too late to join the ride, & he said to me "There are lots of people here I've never seen before! And different bikes! It's wonderful!", or words to that effect. Mad keen on encouraging people who weren't retired tourer-riding middle-class white men like himself, but there was a bit of resistance in some quarters.
I remember discussing this with the local group at the time the whole diversity, inclusion, widening the base, idea was being pushed. They didn't get it. They just said, "But when anyone black, Muslim, etc, turns up, we're just as welcoming to them as to anyone else" which of course was completely true. They couldn't quite get the point that when all your rides end up at a pub, Muslims for instance aren't going to turn up. However, they've got a point too. Because if it's a club, it does what the current members want, which isn't necessarily what's "good for cycling". More conflict between club content and charity aims.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2021, 06:57:56 pm »
Meanwhile, British Cycling have moved smoothly into the non/ racing/recreational/participation area that was the CTCs stronghold, quietly shifting racing to the side in some people’s ( like me) view.

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2021, 11:14:59 pm »
I'm not in the loop on this - why not? The website still says this:
Quote
CYCLING UK IS A TRADING NAME OF CYCLISTS’ TOURING CLUB (CTC) A COMPANY LIMITED BY GUARANTEE, REGISTERED IN ENGLAND NO: 25185. REGISTERED AS A CHARITY IN ENGLAND AND WALES CHARITY NO: 1147607 AND IN SCOTLAND CHARITY NO: SC042541. REGISTERED OFFICE: PARKLANDS, RAILTON ROAD, GUILDFORD, SURREY GU2 9JX.
And has a register for Gift Aid page:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/my_account/register-gift-aid
It was in an e-mail to members, which I didn't get, but there is a discussion on the CUK forum.

Interesting. 
I don't remember getting an email back in January about this either.
And I was one of the ones who cycled up to the fateful AGM which unfortunately gave the go ahead for the conversion, along with Simon Legg and a few others.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2021, 11:19:09 pm »
I've not received an email either.

I don't know whether this is because I'm a Life Member or because I'm not on the right mailing list.

I get other CTC emails.

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2021, 09:08:02 am »
Perhaps it only went to those who gift-aided ?
Rust never sleeps

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2021, 10:50:39 am »
The cycling club I belong to (past Chairman) was a "CTC Member Group" or whatever they called the old DAs but decided, unanimously, at an EGM in 2015, to abdicate and become just a cycling club rather than a CTC group (unfortunately we were pretty much forced to be an "affiliated club" to get the ride organiser insurance)
How many of the CTC/CUK members in that groups catchment area participated in the groups activities and unanimously voted?  I'd be surprised if it was more than 20% and unsurprised if it was less than 10%. That isn't a criticism of the group, I'm keen on my local group and it probably only attracts the same number of members.  But it would be a mistake to assume that those participating in these groups represent the majority of members. 
I was surprised by the loss of GA (I started the thread on the CUK forum), not so much that it no longer qualified but that they dropped out of it rather than change the membership fees and benefits to stay within.  IIRC the point being made at time of the conversion, was not that they wouldn't get it, but that members would lose benefits in order to claim it.  I'm not sure that we're in for a hike in subscriptions, for those who are members for the insurance and legal services, there are alternatives. Of course an increase in subscriptions might make them eligible for GA again, seems to be a fine balance and they got it wrong.

fd3

Re: Cycling UK can no longer claim Gift Aid on membership
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2021, 06:09:29 pm »
Well, rob's DA was my local group but I stopped being even a part-time rider because Kids+New_Job_Teaching.  I suspect I would have voted with the majority though.
I'm also surprised that CUK didn't just change things round to reduce membership benefits to below the required % - after all the magazine does not have a fixed price (as it is not sold separately) so they could have simply dropped the claimed cost to £1 - meaning that members get £4 worth of magazines, insurance and some tenuous deals at local retailers.  It would be unlikely to even be a fiddle as the magazine is subsidised by advertising.
Strange things are afoot at the circle K.