Author Topic: 60 years ago today  (Read 745 times)

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
60 years ago today
« on: April 12, 2021, 09:22:02 am »
Man went into space for the first time.

And Russia stuck one on the man, which caused a bit of consternation and ended with the moon landing.
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2021, 09:23:24 am »
Cultural icons: from Gagarin to Lady Gaga.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Hot Flatus

  • Mediocre polyglot.Scoutmaster and nudist
Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2021, 09:24:36 am »
Man went into space for the first time.

Dogs got there first but nobody ever talks about that

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2021, 09:52:25 am »
Laika who says?
If you don't like your democracy, vote against it.

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2021, 11:28:37 am »
Man went into space for the first time.

Dogs got there first but nobody ever talks about that

Doesn't it only count if they make it back?
Sic transit and all that..

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2021, 08:43:15 pm »
I vaguely remember Gagarin driving by our junior school in an open top vehicle and all the kids cheering like mad.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2021, 08:48:19 pm »
Man went into space for the first time.

Dogs got there first but nobody ever talks about that

Doesn't it only count if they make it back?

It seems at least possible that the first men didn't make it back, either.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2021, 08:57:25 pm »
Man went into space for the first time.

Dogs got there first but nobody ever talks about that

Doesn't it only count if they make it back?

It seems at least possible that the first men didn't make it back, either.

They, or rather their descendants, are still there.

Whaddya mean, Iron Sky wasn’t a documentary?
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Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2021, 12:17:40 am »
Man went into space for the first time.

Dogs got there first but nobody ever talks about that

Doesn't it only count if they make it back?

It seems at least possible that the first men didn't make it back, either.

That reads like a reference to the Judica-Cordiglia tape recordings, which were of dubious provenance, to say the least:

Quote
Since the 1960s critical analysis of the recordings has cast doubt on their provenance. For instance, audio transcripts reveal that none of the cosmonauts, who were supposed to be Soviet air force pilots, followed standard communication protocols, such as identifying themselves when speaking or using correct technical terminology.
...

hough some of the transcripts record cosmonauts saying they are leaving Earth's orbit (i.e. heading into interplanetary or "deep" space), the crewed Vostok 3KAs could not reach escape velocity because their designs never contained secondary-burn propulsion units. This was inherent to the Vostok programme, a project to put the first Soviet citizens into low Earth orbit and return them safely. OKB-1 only required spacecraft with velocities that could reach Earth orbit (28,160 km/h or 17,500 mph) far less than the speed needed to break orbit (40,320 km/h or 25,050 mph). Propulsion units powerful enough to leave Earth's orbit did not begin to appear until the test firing of the RD-270 engine in 1969; and it was not until the N1 moon rocket (with the NK-33 engines) in 1974 that the Soviets built a spacecraft able to reach open space.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judica-Cordiglia_brothers

The fourth tape released -purportedly of a capsule making three orbits a few days before Gagarin's flight - may well be what prompted the Daily Worker to claim that the USSR had put a man in space before Gagarin had even climbed into his Vostok capsule:

Quote
... rumors had surfaced that the Soviets had successfully launched a man into space before Gagarin set foot in Vostok 1, and the talk was that one cosmonaut had done so on April 7, just five days earlier.

Dennis Ogden, the Moscow-based correspondent for the British Communist Party newspaper, Daily Worker, reported as such, his story splashed across the publication's front page with the headline: "The First Man In Space". It informed readers that the spaceman — "the test-pilot son of a top-ranking aircraft designer" — was "back alive, but suffering from [the] effects of his flight".

https://www.space.com/yuri-gagarin-conspiracy-theory

Granted, it took the Soviets nearly 20 years to admit to the death of Valentin Bondarenko in a ground-based experiment and the Nedelin Disaster was hushed up for nearly 30 years, but they did eventually come clean, and it follows that if the mishaps purportedly recorded by the Judica-Cordiglia brothers had happened, we'd have heard about them by now.

One of the arguments against the faked Moon landings tinfoilism is that the Soviets would have been tracking American space flights, and if they had any grounds to believe that NASA was faking it, they'd have seized the propaganda opportunity. The reverse applies too - had there been Soviet manned space flights ahead of Vostok 1 which had gone wrong, does anyone think that the Americans would have kept quiet?
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2021, 12:38:51 am »
Never heard of those brothers, so wasn't referring to any conspiracies.  Just remember reading  (remember books?) years ago that it was thought that at least one attempted Russian astronaut (pre-Gagarin) didn't make it back.  I seem to remember he was rumoured to be the son of a plane-maker, maybe an Ilyushin?  Of course, my reading it in a book doesn't make it true - anymore than the Russians having admitted to another disaster means that they tell the truth about everything.  I think you could probably see that!

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2021, 12:59:56 am »
I'd not come across the Ilyushin theory until I was refreshing my memory about the tape recordings, though it is possible that it gets a mention in one of the books on space flight on my shelves and I've forgotten about it.
He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss also gazes into you.

Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2021, 10:07:12 am »
One of the arguments against the faked Moon landings tinfoilism is that the Soviets would have been tracking American space flights, and if they had any grounds to believe that NASA was faking it, they'd have seized the propaganda opportunity. The reverse applies too - had there been Soviet manned space flights ahead of Vostok 1 which had gone wrong, does anyone think that the Americans would have kept quiet?

Another is that should you have the inclination (and a big enough one with decent tracking attached) you can still bounce a laser off the Lunar Laser Retro-Reflector left on the moon by Apollo 11.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

T42

  • *** fool in a hurry
Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2021, 10:55:50 am »
I'd not come across the Ilyushin theory until I was refreshing my memory about the tape recordings, though it is possible that it gets a mention in one of the books on space flight on my shelves and I've forgotten about it.

I remember hearing it on the morning of the day the Gagarin flight was announced; also that he had been screaming in terror and either died during re-entry or went wawa and ended up in the loony-bin.  Considering his subsequent career I'm a bit sceptical, though in his Wiki pic he does look at bit pop-eyed.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
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Re: 60 years ago today
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2021, 11:20:43 am »
The notion that Sir Bernard Lovell was an unwitting dupe of Moscow is a new one to me.
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