Author Topic: Best builder for a utilitarian frame  (Read 2197 times)

Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« on: 03 August, 2023, 05:23:36 pm »
The frame on my commuter/tourer (Simpel Optimist) has always been a disappointment and it is now rusting in a few areas, which seems like an excuse to get a new corrosion resistant frame to swap the good bits onto. At the minute I think I want:
Stainless steel or titanium, based on resistance to salty Scottish roads. The bike gets no maintenance as a point of principle.
Probably needs to be hand built to get the various braze-ons in the right place and to include a split somewhere for the belt drive.
It's primarily a commuter bike so muted, drab finish would be perfect - I'm really not going to be bothered by a few file marks or similar.
I think it would be a good job for the shop apprentice - perhaps his/her first 921 frame, that sort of thing.
Anyone have any thoughts a to who I should talk to?

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #1 on: 03 August, 2023, 05:41:23 pm »
If you're looking for something handbuilt but utilitarian, try Pi:
https://www.clandestine.cc
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #2 on: 03 August, 2023, 06:03:10 pm »
Bare stainless steel can have problems at joints if silver brazed. Bronze brazed is ok, as is welded. Most alloys of unprotected SS frame tubing can still corrode in salty conditions, though more slowly than normal steels. Paint or powder-coat is a good idea.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #3 on: 03 August, 2023, 07:29:54 pm »
Titan Cycles might be an interesting approach, although I suspect they cost more now than a couple of are ago

http://www.titancycles.com/

I’ve got one from them in sandblast. Totally unassuming and been fine so far

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #4 on: 04 August, 2023, 02:25:56 pm »
Titan Cycles might be an interesting approach, although I suspect they cost more now than a couple of are ago

http://www.titancycles.com/

I’ve got one from them in sandblast. Totally unassuming and been fine so far

Thanks for this. I try to shop local but they're definitely worth a look. Who doesn't love the duty & VAT lottery on an already pricey purchase!

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #5 on: 04 August, 2023, 02:26:34 pm »
If you're looking for something handbuilt but utilitarian, try Pi:
https://www.clandestine.cc

Very interesting, thanks

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #6 on: 04 August, 2023, 02:29:49 pm »
Further to the above, does anyone have recent experience with Shand in Livingston? I spoke to them years ago at a show and they were far too busy to talk about bespoke stuff but they seem to be more receptive now if their website is to be believed. They offer olive drab as a low cost finish but no mention of stainless or Ti on the website

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #7 on: 04 August, 2023, 03:00:02 pm »

A frame that doesn't corrode? Utilitarian?

Best builder for that is you...

https://bamboobicycleclub.org/

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #8 on: 04 August, 2023, 03:01:14 pm »
You could try this guy, the former framebuilder at Shand recommended him: http://www.rothaircycles.com/

Website's a bit bare, but think he responds to messages.

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #9 on: 05 August, 2023, 09:39:07 am »
You could try this guy, the former framebuilder at Shand recommended him: http://www.rothaircycles.com/

Website's a bit bare, but think he responds to messages.

Exactly what I was hoping for - relatively local, low key, introductory message sent - thanks for the link

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #10 on: 05 August, 2023, 09:40:17 am »

A frame that doesn't corrode? Utilitarian?

Best builder for that is you...

https://bamboobicycleclub.org/

J

This looks fascinating but I know a time swallowing black hole when I see one...

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #11 on: 05 August, 2023, 10:02:14 am »
For custom Ti Burls is usually worth a chat with, or if you're sure what you want cut out the middle man and go direct to the manufacturer, though that option isn't the bargain it once was.
I'm not sure I get the idea of a built for life utilitarian frame.  Utility kills bikes, I've been through three and corrosion hasn't been the cause. I'm not riding the bike I had ten years ago, I don't have the same usage.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #12 on: 05 August, 2023, 10:37:06 am »


This looks fascinating but I know a time swallowing black hole when I see one...

Well they do it as a 2 day weekend course. So in theory it shouldn't take too long.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #13 on: 07 August, 2023, 09:07:15 pm »
For custom Ti Burls is usually worth a chat with, or if you're sure what you want cut out the middle man and go direct to the manufacturer, though that option isn't the bargain it once was.
I'm not sure I get the idea of a built for life utilitarian frame.  Utility kills bikes, I've been through three and corrosion hasn't been the cause. I'm not riding the bike I had ten years ago, I don't have the same usage.

Where's Justin Burls getting his frame welding done these days? IIRC it used to be russian but I would guess that  that option might be a bit difficult, if not impossible, these days.

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #14 on: 10 August, 2023, 02:43:42 pm »
I'm not sure I get the idea of a built for life utilitarian frame.  Utility kills bikes, I've been through three and corrosion hasn't been the cause. I'm not riding the bike I had ten years ago, I don't have the same usage.
I'm intrigued by this. My current bike has belt drive, Rohloff, SON dynamo, all bolts that weren't stainless either replaced or touched up with Waxoyl. Basically I don't touch it, even after a ride splashing through salty Aberdeen winter streets. The frame held together for 13 years but now it's rusting in all manner of places. That's fine as the frame appeared to be made of old scaffolding tubes in the first place and I want a few changes to the geometry etc. But a corrosion resistant frame seems like an obvious upgrade to the project.
OK I do touch it - pedals & clips wear out, the Rohloff gets new oil every 3 years, and I learnt the hard way that the belt should be replaced 5-yearly. But apart from that she gets no attention and that suits my lifestyle.

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #15 on: 10 August, 2023, 05:08:16 pm »
I'm not sure I get the idea of a built for life utilitarian frame.  Utility kills bikes, I've been through three and corrosion hasn't been the cause. I'm not riding the bike I had ten years ago, I don't have the same usage.
I'm intrigued by this. My current bike has belt drive, Rohloff, SON dynamo
My thirty years of utility bikes - First swap to fit a Rohloff, next was stolen recovered damaged, followed by cracked frame, change of use when I started doing deliveries, that one was written off by car, then when I started using an E-bike for deliveries I also changed my non assist bike to be more suitable.
The Rohloff has been a constant since 2002, though it needed converting to disc on a frame change and the current frame is belt ready so at some point I might also make that swap.  It's also changed wheel size twice. The dynamo also needed swapping to disc. 
Well done for getting 13 years out of your last one, belt ready frames must have been a rarity then and belt Rohloff's more so.

If you think you can choose a bike to last a lifetime, great. It wouldn't have worked for me at any time in the past and I'm doubtful it would in the future. My next change may be to go fully electric, though I'm hoping not for a few years.
I'm still of the opinion that if you can find an OTP frame that meets your needs and get ten years utility from it, it's likely to prove good value.  OTP frames are often better than custom, it's an economy of scale thing, for example nearly all the steel frames coming from Taiwan and China have better corrosion protection, ED coating and batch finishing.


Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #16 on: 08 September, 2023, 12:03:50 pm »
On the subject of Shand
Steven Shand has moved on
http://www.willowbike.com/#about

so has Russell Stout
https://www.stoutcycles.co.uk/about

Still in Scotland
Ben Cooper at Kinetic might be able to help
https://www.facebook.com/KineticsGlasgow/


Shand Cycles is now known as Dansh ltd (an anagram of Shand?) (or was , but not any more )

And they are not in Scotland any more:
Shand Cycles UK Ltd
Unit 2
Francis Street
Foleshill
Coventry
CV6 5BS

01506435400



Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #17 on: 08 September, 2023, 12:15:46 pm »
For corrosion resistance of steel frames
Five Land Bikes
https://www.fivelandbikes.com/services
use
"Cataphoretic E coat pretreatment on steel parts"

Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #18 on: 11 September, 2023, 09:31:12 pm »
On the subject of Shand
Steven Shand has moved on
http://www.willowbike.com/#about

so has Russell Stout
https://www.stoutcycles.co.uk/about

Still in Scotland
Ben Cooper at Kinetic might be able to help
https://www.facebook.com/KineticsGlasgow/

Very interesting, thanks for that. I've opened up the conversation with Matt at Rothair (also ex Shand) but I'll check out these others too. Matt has convinced me to stop dreaming about stainless tubes for a bike that will receive much buffeting. He protects the inside of the frame with something called - and this was over the phone so could be wrong - "Frame Protect" which sounds a bit like Waxoyl

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #19 on: 12 September, 2023, 05:21:37 pm »


This looks fascinating but I know a time swallowing black hole when I see one...

Well they do it as a 2 day weekend course. So in theory it shouldn't take too long.

I believe gerwinium OTP has done that one.  Apparently it was good fun, though the resulting bike requires some sort of fettling of the bamboo-bonding and is currently unrideable pending acquisition of tuits.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Best builder for a utilitarian frame
« Reply #20 on: 13 September, 2023, 10:15:57 am »
Will Pomeroy otp has built multiple bamboo frames, possibly but not necessarily using that kit.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.