Weight Loss Discussion Thread

[welshwheels]

happy days lost 6 pounds this week 3 stone 3 lbs to go

[itsbruce]

It might be misleading in exceptional cases,

It's a reasonable general guide and if it's telling you you're obese you probably are - certainly seriously overweight and approaching obesity.  But BMI is based entirely on height,  it takes no account of frame size or variations in the distribution of lean and adipose tissue, doesn't consider age and the standards for the thresholds between ideal, overweight and obese ranges are neither clear nor universally agreed.  It also fails for athletes, body-builders and other very active people, whose fat to muscle ratios are well off the scale.  I know these points are often used as excuses by overeaters in denial, but that doesn't change their validity.  "Mostly completely right" isn't an accurate summary.

Before I started strength training, I did pay attention to BMI, but even then I knew it was a rough guideline.  The notional ideal BMI of 22.0 would require me to be 10 stone 5.  Believe me (very much not in denial about my health and weight), that's an unhealthily low weight for me; at 10 stone 10, I was slim verging on gaunt.

[Wendy]

That's my point exactly - slim verging on gaunt is how we should be, at least to the current social perception which is tending towards being a little overweight looks good.  See that Canadian doctor article comparing fit, healthy and well fed battle-injured Afghan soldiers with the obese Canadian norm.

I bet if you put up a photo of yourself in swimming trunks together with your weight and height, I wouldn't expect that you'd be a case that would throw a exception to the general BMI rule.

I guess my point is that I'm not surprised people don't like BMI, it's telling them they are overweight when they don't want to be considered as that.  It's the truth though, and for nearly everyone IME.

[itsbruce]

That's my point exactly - slim verging on gaunt is how we should be

I think that's debatable, but in any case, my point was that the theoretical ideal weight for me is one at which I would be just plain gaunt, on the unhealthy side of slim.  Slim is fine, slim I am comfortable with (although slim combined with the quads and back muscles necessary to squat 1.5xbodyweight is a slightly odd look), but gaunt is something else.

I guess my point is that I'm not surprised people don't like BMI, it's telling them they are overweight when they don't want to be considered as that.  It's the truth though, and for nearly everyone IME.

I have no disagreement with that at all, but I also don't want to label the BMI scale as highly accurate, because it isn't.  Treating it as such can be a part of the anorexia/body-image obsession that's the mirror of the obesity problem.  I've seen people switch from one to the other (obsessive target-achievement can itself be an addiction and a very attractive one to somebody who was previously addicted to eating).

[Wendy]

Oh, I'm not saying it's a highly accurate scale, but it's pretty much the honest truth about nearly everyone.

As for squatting, I know some speedskaters who squat more than double their own bodyweight, and still have that thin look.  (Inline speedskaters, who are much more marathon shaped than their ice counterparts).

[itsbruce]

Yes, but the strength training isn't their primary focus and the slim athleticism is part of the primary discipline.  On the other hand, if you're primarily trying to build strength then watching calories at the same time makes it a slower and more difficult process.  I've found cycling and strength training to be a productive combination, but it would be a lot harder if I were trying to combine audaxing with my other goals.

[Wendy]

So carrying enough muscle to squat 1.5 times your bodyweight, and still being of a healthy BMI, is a quite achievable goal?

[itsbruce]

Yes, for most people, depending on body shape (tall people have it harder in that regard).  Beyond that, not really .  To make good progress for goals beyond that (e.g. the 1000 club), you're going to go off the scale.  But that's not relevant to my original point, which is that BMI is not "mostly absolutely correct".  It's a general guide, with fuzzy edges.  A general guid is enough to tell you you're obese, though.

[Andrij]

I was closer to my target at the end of April than I am now (meant to hit my target by august).

At least I'm heading in the right direction again these last two weeks.  Maybe I'll be there by the end of September.

[vorsprung]

I was closer to my target at the end of April than I am now (meant to hit my target by august).

Me too.  But a Kg has come off last couple of weeks.  I am delighted to be 83.4kg.   I hope to see 82.4 for Weds the 17th and will count this as a win

PBP is the weekend of the 21st Aug, so I can't wait until September

[Doosh]

It's a general guide, with fuzzy edges.  A general guid is enough to tell you you're obese, though.

Agree 100% about the fuzzy edges, the problem I've got with it is that it puts someone who can do 200k at 14mph in the same class (obese) as someone who can barely get out of the house without removing a wall.

[Wendy]

It's not a measure of fitness/health, but a measure of body mass index, surely?  That said, I'd be willing to bet that across the population, someone who's obese, despite being fit, would still be at greater risk of health issues than someone who's both lean and fit.

[hellymedic]

I was closer to my target at the end of April than I am now (meant to hit my target by august).

Me too.  But a Kg has come off last couple of weeks.  I am delighted to be 83.4kg.   I hope to see 82.4 for Weds the 17th and will count this as a win

PBP is the weekend of the 21st Aug, so I can't wait until September

Don't attempt any weight loss in the week before PBP. An extra 500g of fat is easier to shift across France than 83kg of unresponsive lead.

[itsbruce]

It's a general guide, with fuzzy edges.  A general guid is enough to tell you you're obese, though.

Agree 100% about the fuzzy edges, the problem I've got with it is that it puts someone who can do 200k at 14mph in the same class (obese) as someone who can barely get out of the house without removing a wall.

This is true and Wendy's example of the speed skaters also, if he only thought it through, shows the same silliness as they will have the same BMI as somebody who does no exercise at all but doesn't eat much.  That said, if somebody can do 200k at 14mph but still qualifies as obese according to BMI, they are much healthier than the couch potato but still have a weight problem which can seriously affect their health.  On the plus side, if they can reduce that weight at a sensible pace, they'll be really damn fit at the end of it and capable of tackling many other goals (not just fitness ones)

[Wendy]

I think that's what I said earlier. 

It's not a measure of fitness, it's a measure of your body mass index.

[bikey-mikey]

My scales estimate my body fat at 10% - (the instruction booklet says that they may miscalculate athletes...) - it is probably less than that..

My neighbours tend to use the 'G' word - trust me, if you are a bit larger, at least they won't call you GAUNT, which hurts..

Indeed most seem to think I am ill - I am pretty sure that 4,000 + metres of climbing on the Rhosgoch 200 (inc getting to the start and back to the B&B) - oh and I was first back - seems to disprove the 'ill' diagnosis.

So anyway I just calculated my BMI and it comes out at 20.5 which according to the diagram on M&S webpage is in the bottom third of the normal range...

I would have to lose another 6kg down to 54 kg to tip into below normal - seems just plain daft

[Doosh]

It's not a measure of fitness/health, but a measure of body mass index, surely?  That said, I'd be willing to bet that across the population, someone who's obese, despite being fit, would still be at greater risk of health issues than someone who's both lean and fit.

Whilst that's OK with those who understand that, unfortunately the other 95% of the Eastenders watching public just assume one thing- Obese = fat, lazy slob that can barely move.

In all honesty if we hadn't had this discussion and we agreed to meet, but beforehand I told you I was obese according to the BMI definition, what would you expect to turn up?

[itsbruce]

I think that's what I said earlier. 

It's not a measure of fitness, it's a measure of your body mass index.

The BMI is a measure of your BMI?  I would never have guessed.  It's always completely right, then, rather than mostly completely right.

[Wendy]

:rolleyes:  It's not as though I'm trying to score points here.  Why are you suggesting a measure of obesity fails because it fails to take into account an entirely unrelated property, being fitness.

[itsbruce]

I was simply quibbling about the accuracy claimed for it.  Internet, pedantry, pedantry, internet.

[Wendy]

Right, so are you claiming BMI doesn't apply to you personally?

[toontra]

This morning I clocked the scales at 69.2k.  This is the lightest (knowingly) I've been for 30 years!  I fluctuate between 74-6k in the winter and 71-2k in the summer.  This record-low weight is probably a result of:

1)  Being careful what I eat in general - unless on an audax in which case I eat anything!

2)  Cutting out snacks, especially biscuits, crisps, chocolate, etc.

3)  Resisting the urge to eat everything in the house in the days post-audax

4)  A higher mileage this year as prep for PBP

5)  A 2-week cycling holiday in South Spain at the end of June.  The temperatures were ridiculous (40-48c every day), lots of hill climbing and most of the food was so disgusting that appetite was fairly easily suppressed!  Lost 2k.

This gives me a BMI of 20.8 (for what it's worth!).

[mike]

good work Toontra!  Are you going to try and get any lighter?

I'm also at a 'lowest weight for 20 years', but about 30 kg heavier than you!  97 this morning, down from a record high of 110/112ish last new year.

For me, it's more about eating than training, my mileage is about the same as last year.
so:
 - no white carbs, except spuds occasionally
 - less beer (more wine)
 - more protein instead of the white carbs
 - very rare sugary snacks

hoping for 95 by September 1st, then a year end target of 90, which will give me a BMI of 25.  I recon 85 is about as light as I want to get.

[toontra]

good work Toontra!  Are you going to try and get any lighter?

I may see if I can get down to 68, just out of interest really.  It's still within the BMI "normal" range so nothing to worry about, and I like the idea of offsetting some of the weight that will be in my rack-pack on the French ride.

Mike, you put it all into perspective.  You've lost about 30% of your body mass - that's pretty damned impressive!  I'm just fiddling about on the edges in comparison!

[Wendy]

Crikey that's very impressive, Mike!!!!