Author Topic: Weight Loss Discussion Thread  (Read 1300583 times)

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1950 on: 06 October, 2011, 05:28:16 pm »
Suggesting that it is all down to self discipline, and that if you can't discipline yourself you are a failure is a very common attitude and IMO at least 50% of most people's problem.

For the record, I didn't use the word failure and I would never be so judgmental about anybody finding it hard to lose weight.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1951 on: 06 October, 2011, 05:54:00 pm »
Suggesting that it is all down to self discipline, and that if you can't discipline yourself you are a failure is a very common attitude and IMO at least 50% of most people's problem.

For the record, I didn't use the word failure and I would never be so judgmental about anybody finding it hard to lose weight.

d.

And for clarity, I am not referring to any individual accusing anyone else of failing, but more to the underlying pervasive attitude and our innate inclination to see ourselves as failures if we cannot achieve what we feel we want. Also to the extent that our use of that language reinforces the feeling in our heads.

edit: when I look at the last words of my earlier post "if you really want to" it shows how easy it is to use that language, even though I didn't mean it to sound that way.

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1952 on: 06 October, 2011, 06:15:49 pm »
Suggesting that it is all down to self discipline, and that if you can't discipline yourself you are a failure is a very common attitude and IMO at least 50% of most people's problem.


Then find another way to describe it.  The way  I see it, I changed my relationship with food.  It is possible to do this while busy (I was in a busy job with a commute and cooking for two, because my ex never bothered to learn even the most basic of food preparation tasks).  Cooking in batches and pre-preparing meals was one of my main strategies.

BOAB, do you have a slow cooker or could you plausibly acquire one?  They take a lot of the effort out of cooking and can save you money on two counts; firstly, they are cheap to run (particularly for those dishes which are cooked on low) and secondly you can use cheap cuts of meat (if you are a carnivore) which taste much better than the more expensive cuts if cooked for long enough - which is what slow cookers are all about.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1953 on: 06 October, 2011, 09:25:26 pm »
Suggesting that it is all down to self discipline, and that if you can't discipline yourself you are a failure is a very common attitude and IMO at least 50% of most people's problem.


Then find another way to describe it.  The way  I see it, I changed my relationship with food.  It is possible to do this while busy (I was in a busy job with a commute and cooking for two, because my ex never bothered to learn even the most basic of food preparation tasks).  Cooking in batches and pre-preparing meals was one of my main strategies.

BOAB, do you have a slow cooker or could you plausibly acquire one?  They take a lot of the effort out of cooking and can save you money on two counts; firstly, they are cheap to run (particularly for those dishes which are cooked on low) and secondly you can use cheap cuts of meat (if you are a carnivore) which taste much better than the more expensive cuts if cooked for long enough - which is what slow cookers are all about.
I don't need a slow cooker, I'm perfectly capable of slow roasting/braising cheap cuts of meat. It's not even what we have for meals that's the problem, it's the hours sitting around bored, putting off ironing and hoovering doing nothing but idle surfing and snacking.

(Today I made quince jelly. It's delicious on thick cut bread, toasted with butter. I really do need to lock myself out of the kitchen!)

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1954 on: 06 October, 2011, 09:50:00 pm »
Find some nice music.
Do the ironing. Spend an hour NOT eating.
Feel better because ironing is done.
Patch a pile of inner tubes or clothes.
Make a really nice job of a mundane household chore.
Feel better about yourself because you've done <boring task> and made home nicer.
Housework is boring pants but it won't go away for not getting done. Not doing it is demoralising and facing an ever-growing pile of washing/ironing/sewing/hoovering even more so.
Have you had your thyroid function tested?

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1955 on: 06 October, 2011, 10:10:30 pm »
Have you had your thyroid function tested?
Yes. It's fine.
I still have Hb of 11 which does explain some of the lethargy, but mostly, I'm just idle.

Being at home out of work leads to a vicious cycle of bored-lethargic-do nothing-depressed-bored, all of which lead to a stroll to the biscuit barrel.

I'll do some reading and go back to bed with Paul (which I have done with some success in the past).
I just need to turn over a new leaf and go back to doing a bit of mindfulness training.

It's hard.
You're 'supposed' to lose 1-2lb a week. At that rate I need to not-eat-what-I'd-really-like-to-eat for the next 20-30 weeks. That's 210 days of delayed gratification, and the very idea of it makes me wish I had cream cakes in the fridge.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1956 on: 07 October, 2011, 01:07:12 pm »
I need to not-eat-what-I'd-really-like-to-eat for the next 20-30 weeks. That's 210 days of delayed gratification, and the very idea of it makes me wish I had cream cakes in the fridge.

I really can't do total abstinence. There's no way I could do without beer. I do try to cut down how much beer I have though - eg last night, I thought about having a second but managed to resist. It was bloody hard though.

You might think not having a job is part of the problem, but on the other hand… so far in the office today, we've had the PRs from Frank's Hot Sauce bringing us bacon sandwiches, PRs from Tyrell's bringing us crisps, and upstairs in the Press Briefing Centre are PRs from Zizzi's with loads of Italian food and prosecco…

Get thee behind me, satanic PRs!  :-\

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1957 on: 07 October, 2011, 01:13:17 pm »

You might think not having a job is part of the problem, but on the other hand… so far in the office today, we've had the PRs from Frank's Hot Sauce bringing us bacon sandwiches, PRs from Tyrell's bringing us crisps, and upstairs in the Press Briefing Centre are PRs from Zizzi's with loads of Italian food and prosecco…


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/2Gn9A-kdsRo&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/2Gn9A-kdsRo&rel=1</a>

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1958 on: 07 October, 2011, 01:15:37 pm »
It's a hard life. ;D

Right, it's lunchtime. Just off to get me some of that prosecco…

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1959 on: 07 October, 2011, 01:37:53 pm »
Right, it's lunchtime. Just off to get me some of that prosecco…

Wheras I'm in the kitchen with swiss roll in t'oven and flapjack ingredients melting on the hob... ::-)

(I have got a 200k tomorrow)

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1960 on: 07 October, 2011, 02:20:19 pm »
<calculates how to get to BOAB's house before tomorrow>!

I think sometimes a kick start helps. Unless I am upset to the point of hysteria, I don't lose weight on my own. I have, at various times, had some success with Weightwatchers, slimming world and a Very Expensive Harley St Diet Dr. The VEHSDD had the advantage that it cost enough that I stuck to it and the pills helped to a certain extent. It was quite good to start off with that because I lost some weight immediately and felt less of a failiure as a result :)

I am considering rejoining WW when my new job is underway.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1961 on: 07 October, 2011, 02:26:43 pm »
Yes, we should.

I'm only losing weight (and very slowly at that) by upping the miles.  That can't go on indefinitely.  I need to change my attitude to food.

And I have developed a position professionallu of no faith in the jedi mind-tricks NLP tosh, I'm afraid.

I have lost 20kg in four years, I suppose, hitting various plateaux on the way, but I can do with losing another 10kg I think.
Getting there...

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1962 on: 07 October, 2011, 03:23:02 pm »
Yes, we should.

I'm only losing weight (and very slowly at that) by upping the miles.  That can't go on indefinitely.  I need to change my attitude to food.

And I have developed a position professionallu of no faith in the jedi mind-tricks NLP tosh, I'm afraid.

I have lost 20kg in four years, I suppose, hitting various plateaux on the way, but I can do with losing another 10kg I think.

I have had some success with WW but at the end of the day you/we/I need to resolve our relationship with food.

I do have some cynicism re the jedi mind tricks but CBT works, and is a kind of form of NLP. It's so magic, that even if you don't really believe, it can work.

I've only ever really wonderfully lost weight when I split up with my husband. The Heartbreak & Fags DietTM was a rip roaring (7stones) success, but really, far too high a price. And half of that is back, although it has taken it 8 years to return.

At the end of the day (as they say) we none of us want to be bloaters. It lessens the fun of cycling. I've got away with being a fat bastard for quite some time, but really, I want to lose the lard, and lose it for good.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1963 on: 07 October, 2011, 03:45:42 pm »
Well, maybe we can all work together a bit.  I know there's the weight loss recording thread, which is wonderful discipline for me, but we could all do with being a bit more motivated.
Getting there...

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1964 on: 07 October, 2011, 05:01:07 pm »
Yes, we should.

I'm only losing weight (and very slowly at that) by upping the miles.  That can't go on indefinitely.  I need to change my attitude to food.

And I have developed a position professionallu of no faith in the jedi mind-tricks NLP tosh, I'm afraid.

I have lost 20kg in four years, I suppose, hitting various plateaux on the way, but I can do with losing another 10kg I think.

The Jedi Mind Games are only one of the techniques of NLP, and you seem to suggest that underlies your lack of "faith"; that is similar to suggesting that you don't believe in speedreading techniques, so you won't pick up a book.

When I was on my NLP course alongside numerous work colleagues, I would say around 50% did not "get" the jedi mind tricks, I was probably a borderline. However, 100% "got" the NLP idea which is so blindingly simple and obvious: You can control other people's minds - and your own - with words. Bear in mind that in this context control is not to make someone like an automaton, but instead to influence them towards a position.

The other people's minds part is something everyone does to a greater or lesser extent; NLP sets out to put some (quasi?) science around it that you may or may not appreciate. It sure as hell works for some people  - Derren Brown ?. Put a suggestion to a person in the right language and you are much more likely to achieve your goal.

The real eye opener of NLP, though, is how much it applies to what goes on inside your own head, and then your own physical capabilities. Again, it isn't magic, and it isn't even news: you have to think of yourself as a winner before you stand a chance. It (_and_ the Jedi Mind Tricks - that business with his hands) are what helped Johnny Wikinson achieve what he did, but it hasn't given him superhuman powers.

The question posed (and the reason I came out of the woodwork on this thread) was, can a person learn not to want to want to eat? That has nothing to do with dieting, everything to do with attitude changing and something that NLP could possibly deliver.

My weight loss history up to a couple of years ago was of yo-yo dieting, at the end I was 110Kg and been stuck there for a number of years, while still cycling upwards of 100 miles a week, and I realised that only a radical change of attitude would help me, but I couldn't find it. For me, the Paul McKenna book together with the NLP stuff I knew about did the trick. I went down and stayed at 85Kg for about 2 years, crept backup to 103 as a combination of dropping back from my 60 mile/day commute which allowed me anyamount of beer and being off my feet for a few months, and I'm on my way back down again with negligible pain or difficulty (93 at the mo).

What works for one person doesn't for another, but if you are looking for a way to reprogram your thinking, you would be unwise to dismiss NLP without giving it a fair shot.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1965 on: 07 October, 2011, 05:04:02 pm »
NLP was very trendy as a management tool a few years back.  I found the biggest advocates the most unpersuasive people I worked with </my last word on the issue>
Getting there...

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1966 on: 07 October, 2011, 05:45:52 pm »
NLP was very trendy as a management tool a few years back.  I found the biggest advocates the most unpersuasive people I worked with </my last word on the issue>

Sorry - just want to make sure I've got this straight - you're dismissing the potential for using NLP as a tool able to alter your own behaviour as a result of your experience with some poor practitioners ("most unpersuasive people") attempts to alter other peoples behaviour, in the context of trendy management techniques?

RichForrest

  • T'is I, Silverback.
    • Ramblings of a silverback cyclist
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1967 on: 07 October, 2011, 05:54:54 pm »
After working away for 3-4 months earlier this year and eating all the wrong stuff I ended up over 17.5st (110kg) at the end of June. It was coming down very slowly but it's surprising what a change of diet does.
I've stopped eating bread over the last 3 weeks and have lost near on a stone! I could get through a loaf in just over a day (on my own  :o)
Every meal I used to eat would have bread with it and I was a bit worried what to have in its place. I don't miss not having it and feel a hell of a lot better for it.

Just have to keep it up now  :thumbsup:


Jakob

Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1968 on: 07 October, 2011, 11:16:20 pm »
2kgs down this week. It may not be comfortable, but it's working. Still very much hungry & grumpy, but hopefully that should taper off next week.

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1969 on: 08 October, 2011, 01:49:24 pm »

You're 'supposed' to lose 1-2lb a week.
At that rate I need to not-eat-what-I'd-really-like-to-eat for the next 20-30 weeks. That's 210 days of delayed gratification, and the very idea of it makes me wish I had cream cakes in the fridge.

I mostly see the 1-2lb thing raised as a way of moderating those who are trying too hard and hurting themselves with crash diets; there's nothing compulsory about it.  1-2lb is a sensible rate of weight loss, but a steady 1/2lb a week, say, is nothing to be sneered at; if that's practical for you, it's a win.  The only downside is the patience required to be sure that you are actually achieving that weight, given that your bodyweight can vary by a couple of pounds or more over the course of a day.

NLP was very trendy as a management tool a few years back.  I found the biggest advocates the most unpersuasive people I worked with </my last word on the issue>

Sorry - just want to make sure I've got this straight - you're dismissing the potential for using NLP as a tool able to alter your own behaviour as a result of your experience with some poor practitioners ("most unpersuasive people") attempts to alter other peoples behaviour, in the context of trendy management techniques?

I think a debate on the merits of NLP deserves its own thread and shouldn't be allowed to disrupt this one.
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1970 on: 11 October, 2011, 12:56:18 pm »
Pleasantly surprised when I got on the scales this morning - the reading was 77.1kg, which is the lowest my weight has been since I started recording about two years ago and probably the lowest it's been for some years.  :thumbsup:

[Edit: all the more pleasantly surprising given the two large slices I had of the cake that was delivered to the office yesterday. A large Victoria sponge filled with cream and jam, and coated with a thick layer of icing (though I left most of the icing - too sweet for my taste).]

Of course, there's a certain amount of daily fluctuation within that and I fully expect it to be up again tomorrow (in fact, I kind of hope it's up again tomorrow because it's 1.3kg down on two days ago!), but there's definitely a downward trend in the graph, which is very encouraging, and I'm still on track for my target.

I reckon riding a relatively short fixed gear (65") could be something to do with it - it's almost like doing an open-air spinning class.

d.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1971 on: 12 October, 2011, 04:44:49 pm »
I wasn't so happy when I weighed in this morning.  I know I hadn't ridden much at the weekend, but I didn't think my eating had been so bad and, besides, I've been riding further and adding in hills this week!

Gah!  I need to get this sorted.  I thought I was going to stay below 95kg now.  Needs More Work.
Getting there...

jogler

  • mojo operandi
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1972 on: 12 October, 2011, 05:04:07 pm »
Adding hills may develop muscle.Muscle is heavier than fat.Beware them hills :)

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1973 on: 13 October, 2011, 09:04:06 am »
I shall do me best to avoid 'em ;)
Getting there...

itsbruce

  • Lavender Bike Menace
Re: Weight Loss Discussion Thread
« Reply #1974 on: 13 October, 2011, 03:44:42 pm »
Muscle being denser than fat, if you added some beef rather than lard then your silhouette is likely to have changed positively (e.g. reduced waist measurement).  So how do you feel?
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked: Allen Ginsberg
The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads: Jeff Hammerbacher