Author Topic: Help with frame related questions (Read 294243 times)

fatntired · « **Reply #475 on:** 14 June, 2022, 02:22:03 am »

Hi Mr. Yates,

Writing from the other side of the pond, and think a previous post of yours may have finally solved a puzzle for me. I have a very similar bicycle to the one you identified above as a frame you did for Condor in 1990. Mine seems nearly identical except it seems the year may have been stamped upside down and there's a second serial number on there to go with the one that matches your aforementioned format. I'm hoping you may be able to tell me more about this beautiful bicycle. I suspect it has been tastefully repainted, but I can't say for sure as I found it with no identifying info at a swap a few years ago and didn't actually speak to the previous owner.

Thanks in advance for anything you can tell me!

Best,

T

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #476 on:** 15 June, 2022, 04:24:33 pm »

Hi T
That frame is indeed built by ourselves at M Steel Cycles for Condor. As near as I can nail it down it is one of a batch of 4 59cm Super Cadet touring frames made for Condor as shop stock. The number 4295 on the BBshell followed by a centre punch mark identifies it as a frame finished off by Chris, one of my builders. It was invoiced to Condor July 95. Alas I dont know who bought it from Condor. The Super Cadet was their top "off the peg" touring model.
I hope that helps a bit, i have limited info on much of the production at M Steels as we lost most of the original order forms in a flood so all I have are the order books that each frame was entered as it came in.
Cheers

Dave Yates

fatntired · « **Reply #477 on:** 15 June, 2022, 04:50:05 pm »

Hi Dave,

Thanks so much for the reply. By my eyes the BB is stamped 4206, but I theorized that the 06 was a 90 punched in upside down for some reason. The other serial stamped on the BB is 700968.

Thanks,

Ted

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #478 on:** 16 June, 2022, 01:38:59 pm »

T
Sorry for the wrong info. Having put the right glasses on and zoomed the pic. I concur that the number is indeed 4206. Which is one of our numbers which I have found to be one of our Hosteller models. The spec on this model is identical to the Condor Super Cadet hence my jumping to the wrong conclusion. Ordered 6 may 89 by a shop that rejoiced under the name of "Bike Hogan" for a customer called Brimstein. Thats all I have on this.

Cheers

Dave Yates

fatntired · « **Reply #479 on:** 16 June, 2022, 01:53:27 pm »

Thank you so much! It's amazing to be able to ask questions straight from the source like this. Have a great day!

Johnsabi · « **Reply #480 on:** 27 June, 2022, 04:54:59 pm »

Another one for you Dave. One of your Joe Waugh frames, number 4789 with a centre punch mark after it. Mid 90's I assume. Also, where in Morpeth was the M Steel shop? I don't remember it, but a Koga Miyata I have has a Gosforth and Morpeth telephone number on it.

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #481 on:** 27 June, 2022, 08:03:02 pm »

The M Steel name goes back to before 1900. Matt Steel was an ironmongers on Gosforth High Street who dealt with bikes as well. The business was bought by Geoff Dobson, I think, in the late 50s and traded as M Steel Cycles. Geoff opened a second shop in Morpeth's Sanderson Arcade which was run by Dennis Fairley. Geoff and myself formed M Steel (Lightweight Cycles) Ltd to build frames in 1981 and were joined by Joe Waugh some 6 weeks after that not long after that Geoff sold the shop to the limited company and moved to Morpeth to run the shop himself whilst remaining a director of the limited company. That Koga would have been sold very late 70s/early 81
The Joe Waugh frame was sold from our Whitley Bay shop to someone called Robinson in April 1990

Johnsabi · « **Reply #482 on:** 28 June, 2022, 11:19:24 am »

Thanks for the prompt reply. I bought the Koga from a young chap in Tynemouth in 1981. I seem to remember it being advertised as ex-demo or some such. Mr Robinson who ordered the frame must have been a keen Mavic fan. I picked up two of his bikes, one is 75% Mavic and the other is 100% Mavic.
PS This is John from TEDS electrical in North Shields. Hope you are keeping well.

finch · « **Reply #483 on:** 02 September, 2022, 09:05:43 pm »

I’ve got a 2012 Supersix and it’s got this really annoying trait that when you’re riding on a less than perfect surface, and they’re all like that in Scotland, the front mech cable dings with ridiculous frequency on the admittedly massive downtube. I’ve tried plastic spirals for ring sizing and running the cable as tense as it’ll go Short of getting a custom cable guide that sticks forward from the bb shell and changes the angle of the dangle I’m pretty much out of ideas as to how to make it stop and I do very much want to make it stop. Stops what is an incredible frame being perfect

Audax1 · « **Reply #484 on:** 18 October, 2022, 08:13:00 pm »

Hello

Think I’ve understood this thread where a selection of questions can run simultaneously. Interested in thoughts on whether 110mm and 90mm drop outs and forks can be sprung to take 120 and 100mm hubs? Trying to prevent having to re spray the frame by having work done on it. Or, can 120/100mm hubs be respaced easily enough?

Many thanks

Stuart

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #485 on:** 18 October, 2022, 08:21:59 pm »

Is this an older frame (>40 years) or NJS or what? If older, what dropouts does it have? Old frames can be built for axles of smaller diameter than the more recent 9mm front/ 10mm rear.

Coldsetting steel forks/ frame by 10mm almost never damages the paint.

Audax1 · « **Reply #486 on:** 18 October, 2022, 08:45:46 pm »

Thanks this is useful re the cold setting the dropouts and preserving the paint. Apologies I left off some of the key details, the frame is from 1945 so guessing may also be a case of filling the dropouts too

Would adding mudguard eyes require the paint to be stripped or perhaps just on the drop outs, is this possible?

Thanks

Ian H · « **Reply #487 on:** 18 October, 2022, 09:11:18 pm »

Quote from: Audax1 on 18 October, 2022, 08:45:46 pm

Thanks this is useful re the cold setting the dropouts and preserving the paint. Apologies I left off some of the key details, the frame is from 1945 so guessing may also be a case of filling the dropouts too

Would adding mudguard eyes require the paint to be stripped or perhaps just on the drop outs, is this possible?

Thanks

I've had eyelets silver-brazed with minimal paint damage. You need a skilled builder to do it well.

Audax1 · « **Reply #488 on:** 18 October, 2022, 09:22:38 pm »

Ok thank you I’ll have a chat with them and see what they say! Much appreciated

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #489 on:** 18 October, 2022, 09:58:44 pm »

In the dark ages, Blackburn made “Custom Eyelets” to allow a rear rack to be fitted to Campag dropouts without P-clips. It isn’t that hard to make a set, if you want to avoid potential paint damage.

Audax1 · « **Reply #490 on:** 19 October, 2022, 01:11:32 pm »

Thanks very much this is useful to know, will have a look into this!

Jiveman · « **Reply #491 on:** 23 October, 2022, 04:55:36 am »

Hello Mr Yates...if your out there?

I've been offered a very nice frame that has been resprayed and in the process lost it's identity.

But two things made me wonder if it was a Condor. The serial number 9030 (Condor site says year followed by production) and the unusual Allez dropouts. Both suggested low production.

It has no pantographing. The top eyes are the truncated ones often found on Holdsworth Professionals. (the serial No is way off the Holdsworth ones) It is also close clearance with mudguard eyes.
The lugs look like Cinelli Investment/Italia with short points.
All the threading is British. Seat post size is 26.8
I've seen three very similar Condor GS bikes with a similar number, lugs, dropouts, top eyes.

I can take up the offer of this frame, it's clearly quality. But I can't bare a frame I know nothing about.....

Thank You

Wrote LLoyd at first.....!

LittleWheelsandBig · « **Reply #492 on:** 23 October, 2022, 06:51:01 pm »

If you reset dropout width, don’t forget to realign the dropouts to parallel.

If you are set on finding out what the frame is, join the V-CC and ask the question there.

Jiveman · « **Reply #493 on:** 31 October, 2022, 12:09:54 pm »

Just had my frame confirmed as a Condor. So not only is the type of frame I was after....close/mudguard clearance. It's a 531 Condor as well.

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #494 on:** 31 October, 2022, 07:49:37 pm »

Evening ladies and gents
I've only just picked the last few posts up as for some reason I've not received any notifications that there are posts to answer.
First to finch
There used to be small rubber rings available that were fitted on the cable to stop it banging on the tube. I should imagine a standard o ring of appropriate internal diameter would do the job. You would probably need around half a dozen would do it. Just search on "o rings"

Next Audax1
A frame of that age will re set no prob. As Little wheels and big points out you must ensure the dropouts are re set to parallel. You will also require the dropout slots to be opened up to 10mm rear and 9mm front. I have done this sort of job several times with no probs over the years. Check the brake clearance before you cut any metal $:-\$

Jiveman
Alas that is not a Condor number. All the Condors we built at Steel's were numbered year last preceded by production number for that year eg 9030 We never, as far as I remember, built any Condor frame with Allez dropouts they had their own Condor stamped ones. There is a possibility that it is one of ours from M Steel Cycles as the number corresponds with a Gold Medal built in 1987. If you can put some pictures up I can give you a better idea, specifically seat cluster, under the bb shell showing the number and it should have the number on the steering column, also the size of the frame , centre of bb to top edge of seat lug

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #495 on:** 31 October, 2022, 08:05:58 pm »

Jiveman
The seat pin size is wrong for a 531c tubeset it should be 27.2.

Jiveman · « **Reply #496 on:** 05 November, 2022, 12:32:27 pm »

Thanks for the reply.

I got back to it, and under close inspection there's nothing other than a Condor sounding frame number to go by.
9030 is on the F&F, so not a massed produced frame I'd have thought?
It is 27.2 though and all English threading, and certainly has the characteristics of a very early 90's frame.
So with the Allez drop outs front and rear, it looks like a Holdsworth, but then the number doesn't.
So unless I can pin it down, I'm going to label it up as a Birds of Colindale as I had two of his off the peg frames as a youngster, and I know Terry didn't build frames.

Thanks

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #497 on:** 05 November, 2022, 04:23:22 pm »

I actually put some more info in aprevious general reply see below

Jiveman
Alas that is not a Condor number. All the Condors we built at Steel's were numbered year last preceded by production number for that year eg 9030 We never, as far as I remember, built any Condor frame with Allez dropouts they had their own Condor stamped ones. There is a possibility that it is one of ours from M Steel Cycles as the number corresponds with a Gold Medal built in 1987. If you can put some pictures up I can give you a better idea, specifically seat cluster, under the bb shell showing the number and it should have the number on the steering column, also the size of the frame , centre of bb to top edge of seat lug

Cheers
Dave Yates

rcbprk · « **Reply #498 on:** 15 November, 2022, 10:03:31 pm »

Evening Dave,

I picked up a Joe Waugh Prima frame at the weekend from a local community bike repair charity. It’s build in 531c with Campagnolo dropouts on frame and fork. It looks to be in pretty good shape. The frame itself looks similar to one that Hilary Stone is selling, details-wise albeit a different finish and without the chromed forks; he has it listed as a 1994. The BB shell on mine has the number is 7727. I wondered if you might have an idea of what date this one hails from?

Also, it’s come to me with a Campagnolo Athena Graphite crankset - would that be typical of the kit these would have left the shop with at the time? Presumably there was a mix of Campagnolo, Shimano and maybe Suntour knocking around. I wonder what the trends of the day were like at Steels in the early 90s.

Many thanks
Roy

Bicycle Repair Man · « **Reply #499 on:** 16 November, 2022, 10:24:48 am »

Hi Roy
That frame was ordered 26/10/94 as a stock frame for Steel's Gosforth shop. It was invoiced 9/5/95, I assume at the point it was sold as a build up from the shop. No idea what kit was fitted as each one was built to customer spec.

Cheers

Dave Yates