Are Brompton pricing themselves out of the market?

[BucksBrompton]

I'm due a new cyclescheme voucher & its burning a hole in my pocket! I already have a Brompton M3L in raw lacquer, which I love. I'm thinking of getting another similar one, but this time was going for a single speed S type, again in raw lacquer finish. When you add a brooks saddle & mudguards it comes out at over £900. It seems a lot of money for what it is. Sure the Brompton fold is the best, also it looks best IMHO, residuals are good. But the technology is 'old/ancient'. I'm surprisingly tempted by alternative brands which offer belt drive & other 'modern' technology for a lot less money, other brands offer discounts.
I think the Bromptons are overpriced by around 25% & nobody ever offers a discount, which is surprising really. Are they pricing themselves out of the market?, their pricing seems to be reaching tipping point..

[Biggsy]

Not only are they still in the market, Brompton can't make enough to satisfy the existing demand.  They'd only need to reduce prices if they want to massively expand.  People seem willing to pay for the fold, and perhaps because it's made in Britain?

The raw lacquer @ £80 extra is an optional luxury that you could easily do without.

[Notsototalnewbie]

Is there still a waiting list for Brommies? I know Rob had to wait for his a couple of years ago (also got on cyclescheme). I guess if you’ve got a waiting list for something, you can arguably charge what you like, up to a point. What that point is remains to be seen – I don’t know if there’s still a waiting list these days, or whether the higher prices have reduced it somewhat. They’re tough little machines, too – Rob managed to ride his through all weathers for over 18 months before I finally wrestled it from him and presented it to the LBS for some TLC.

(Mind you, I have been known to justify what I spend on bikes because I don’t have a car any more. I could easily have spent more than £900 a year on my last car, taking into account insurance/tax/maintenance etc – and then there’s the public transport costs you save on, too.)

[Tewdric]

I think the cycle scheme is partly responsible.  I doubt many people hand over £750 cash when they pick them up.

I've yet to see a folder that I'd rather have than my M3L, and the cycle scheme made it relatively cheap and affordable.

They still seem to be flying out of bike shops everywhere, so the market can clearly bear the increased prices. 

[BucksBrompton]

Guess demand is still good, as there is a bit of a wait if going the bespoke route. Although my local shops seem to have most combinations on the shelf. I've not seen a discount yet though! Even a bog standard 3 speed, with mudguards, is over £800, which seems an awful lot of money for what it is. But as long as they sell enough, who can blame them. I wonder what the profit margin is!

[chagzuki]

They have no direct competition since the way the bike folds is unique and the utility the fold provides is unrivalled.
It strikes me that by raising prices what they're doing is inviting other players into the market; the folding design isn't protected with any patents and there's nothing stopping other companies from producing a clone. Furthermore there's areas where the bike can be improved. . . it seems to me that Brompton are in a risky position. Charging over £800 for a high tensile steel bike with some sloppy components is quite extraordinary.

[Tewdric]

They have no direct competition since the way the bike folds is unique and the utility the fold provides is unrivalled.
It strikes me that by raising prices what they're doing is inviting other players into the market; the folding design isn't protected with any patents and there's nothing stopping other companies from producing a clone. Furthermore there's areas where the bike can be improved. . . it seems to me that Brompton are in a risky position. Charging over £800 for a high tensile steel bike with some sloppy components is quite extraordinary.

I'm sure many other companies have looked at producing a clone in Taiwan.  I suspect none have because it's a very difficult thing to manufacture, especially if you want it to work properly! 

Some of he Brompton components may be clunky, but, in general, they are functional and reliable. 

[Biggsy]

The price of ALL new non-crap bikes shocks me!  You don't get high-end componentry with racing bikes costing eight-hundred quid either.  It's an age thing - the mind not keeping up with inflation.

Costs are rising in the far east, so British companies have got a chance in the long term.  Meanwhile, Brompton probably can lower the prices if a direct competitor comes along, but they don't need to before that.  That's not to say I don't feel sorry for people who simply can't afford a Brompton, and I'd like them to be cheaper, of course.  I only got mine thanks to an insurance pay-out.

[tiermat]

They might not have patents, but they will have copyright on the fold AND the "look and feel" so any company wanting to produce a copy would be looking at problems if they copied it directly.

[chagzuki]

Copyright is very specific and doesn't protect the folding design, only inessential aspects/stylistic choices (or so it would appear from the one case that went to court).

[Pickled Onion]

...nobody ever offers a discount, which is surprising really.

Brompton don't allow resellers to offer a discount. But you can negotiate something in lieu of a discount, eg an upgrade to a Brooks saddle.

[Zipperhead]

The raw lacquer @ £80 extra is an optional luxury that you could easily do without.

Interestingly, having just looked at the prices of frame parts (just in case I have to replace mine), as a spare part the raw lacquer frame is the same price as most other colours (red was cheaper for some reason)

[vorsprung]

I think the Bromptons are overpriced by around 25% & nobody ever offers a discount, which is surprising really. Are they pricing themselves out of the market?

Overpriced by 25% is quite specific.  Please compare a similar bike that is actually 25% cheaper with a Brompton
In the meantime, we won't believe you about this over pricing out of the market thing.  This is because most folding bikes we see are Bromptons

[AndyK]

All British built bikes currently look expensive due to the VAT rise to 20%. Three years ago my Moulton was £1050. Today the exact same bike is £1500 all bar £5. I would imagine Brompton are similarly affected.

[BucksBrompton]

I think the Bromptons are overpriced by around 25% & nobody ever offers a discount, which is surprising really. Are they pricing themselves out of the market?

Overpriced by 25% is quite specific.  Please compare a similar bike that is actually 25% cheaper with a Brompton
In the meantime, we won't believe you about this over pricing out of the market thing.  This is because most folding bikes we see are Bromptons

A quick google finds this:-
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tern/link-d7i-2012-folding-bike-ec032583
£575, plus £100 worth of accessories. Sure its not as good as a Brompton overall. But its aluminium/7 speed Nexus hub. Just makes the Brompton look pricey. Saying that I'll still probably get another Brompton!

[marcusjb]

Having been at the factory on Saturday and actually sat with the boss for the lunch, I don't think they need worry too much about being priced out of the market quite yet. 

I have now visited the factory 4 times over the past 5 years, and what a difference I have seen.  I was actually shocked on Saturday at how many brazing stations they've squeezed into the factory now (they are looking for a new unit just to put brazing in, so the current factory will just be assembly and warehousing). 

I keep toying with the idea of buying a new one and, I agree, the prices have gone up an awful lot since I last bought one (2007), but (as Biggsy points out) bikes in general (good bikes) have got a lot more expensive over the past few years - some of the components you get on £1000 bikes is more like what used to be on £5-600 bikes.

Anyway - if I buy a new folding bike (I probably won't as I don't really use it enough to justify replacing it), it will be a Brompton as nothing else gets close for the kind of things Bromptons are used for. 

[marcusjb]

A quick google finds this:-
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tern/link-d7i-2012-folding-bike-ec032583
£575, plus £100 worth of accessories. Sure its not as good as a Brompton overall. But its aluminium/7 speed Nexus hub. Just makes the Brompton look pricey. Saying that I'll still probably get another Brompton!

Blimey - I thought Bromptons were heavy!

Weight:    14.4 kg

[LittleWheelsandBig]

7sp hubs are heavier than Brompton's more complicated 6sp arrangement.

[fuaran]

...nobody ever offers a discount, which is surprising really.

Brompton don't allow resellers to offer a discount.

So they are illegally price fixing?

[Biggsy]

A quick google finds this:-
http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tern/link-d7i-2012-folding-bike-ec032583
£575, plus £100 worth of accessories. Sure its not as good as a Brompton overall. But its aluminium/7 speed Nexus hub. Just makes the Brompton look pricey. Saying that I'll still probably get another Brompton!

It's a fair point.  Bromptons are pricey compared to folders made in the far east at the moment.

[Biggsy]

So they are illegally price fixing?

Is it illegal to drop a dealer who sells at below an agreed price?  There will be the implied threat of that even if it never happens.

[chagzuki]

That Tern is too heavy. . . I wonder how accurate their weights are as some similar bikes seem to have huge weight disparities.

In many departments Tern bikes are evolved way beyond Brompton but in prioritising stiffness they seem to be too heavy in general. Though so are Bromptons with their extraordinarily basic hi-ten steel frames.

[Ian H]

...with their extraordinarily basic hi-ten steel frames.

It might be that that's the best material for the job.

[chagzuki]

Why not chromoly?
Perhaps there's an argument that thinner tubing would be more likely to rust through? They could and probably should coat the inside of their rear frame tubes anyway as rust is an issue there.

[Biggsy]

Let's not forget the titanium option for the rear frame and forks.  I imagine it's difficult to find alternatives for the main frame as such stiffness is required there.  It's not like a diamond frame that can have relatively flimsy tubing thanks to its shape.