Author Topic: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?  (Read 3530 times)

Wowbagger

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #25 on: 12 December, 2013, 10:28:02 pm »
What is really pissing me off these days is the increasing number of vehicles, of a variety of descriptions, displaying "Cyclists stay back!" signs. I'm pretty sure that such a sign is going to instil in the driver of that vehicle the notion that he no longer has to take quite so much care of cyclists as he has already warned them that he is liable to squash them.
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TimC

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #26 on: 13 December, 2013, 06:09:25 am »
How many schools are teaching the highway code w.r.t cycling as standard curriculum?  Not many.  They all should in my view.

All of the 8 primary schools I have any involvement with deliver Bikeability (levels 1 and 2) to all pupils in upper KS2.  We were also given information about how to access further training, including parent and child training where a bikeability tutor would help families find appropriate cycling routes to school and ride that route with them, training the kids in how to ride and the parents in how to ride and supervise.  My son's PE lessons in the first term of secondary included a series of cycling lessons - on bikes provided by the school, so that no child would be excluded by reason of not have a bike to use and to ensure that all the bikes were adequately maintained.

Sadly not the case round our parts. MrsC, a committed bike commuter and primary teacher, is still trying to convince her school to offer Bikeability. There's a complete lack of interest, probably because it would do nothing to help achieve any Ofsted-able targets.

TimC

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #27 on: 13 December, 2013, 06:13:10 am »
What is really pissing me off these days is the increasing number of vehicles, of a variety of descriptions, displaying "Cyclists stay back!" signs. I'm pretty sure that such a sign is going to instil in the driver of that vehicle the notion that he no longer has to take quite so much care of cyclists as he has already warned them that he is liable to squash them.

I find these signs a tad annoying too, but you and I would probably never try and go up the inside of an HGV. Maybe they might work for the dozier among us. I hope so. I wonder if I can get one for my bike which says 'HGV/PSV stay back' for when I've got to the stop line ahead of them?

mattc

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #28 on: 13 December, 2013, 07:08:20 am »
"Motorists Stay Back!"

Can you imagine the absolute apoplexy from many drivers?

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Biggsy

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #29 on: 13 December, 2013, 09:04:42 am »
I'm not commenting on specific incidents, but in general, huge numbers of cyclists don't ride in a position that makes them more visible and hard to be overtaken at danger points.  They're not doing anything wrong, but they're being unwise.  That's where cycling education should be useful.  It needn't interfere with tougher controls over drivers at the same time.
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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #30 on: 13 December, 2013, 09:22:29 am »
How many schools are teaching the highway code w.r.t cycling as standard curriculum?  Not many.  They all should in my view.

All of the 8 primary schools I have any involvement with deliver Bikeability (levels 1 and 2) to all pupils in upper KS2. 

Hooray! some good news, thanks for the information.  I must admit I'd assumed that all areas are like mine (Southampton) where the offer is there for schools to take up Bikeability if they want, only for pupils that are interested.  That approach won't get all the kids in good habits from an early age.  Level 3 is the one that will save most though I reckon - although that's delivered a later in the school career and is not something you commented on in your post.

Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #31 on: 13 December, 2013, 10:03:13 am »
In my view these discussion always conflate two issues that really need to be separate.

The first is what you expect of others, both in terms of their behaviour - compliance with road rules and courtesy - and their inclusiveness. By that I mean the gamut of how cycling is treated: how planners cater for cyclists, how legislation is crafted etc

The second is what you expect of yourself.

We can rant on about the issues and campaign and pressurise for improvement (which I take to be at the core of the OP's point), we can argue the effectiveness of things like segregation, ASL provision, the only thing you can directly alter is yourself.

The most hackles rise when discussing the second: "You shouldn't have to" "victim blaming" etc etc etc, ad infinitum

I'm going to preface the next comments by saying that it is quite possible that the population of this particular forum may not be entirely representative.

Somehow most people think that with a bare minimum of formal training and application of their own intelligence, their roadcraft is perfect, and beyond criticism. Whether it is driving a car or riding a bike, they are GOOD. Even if they don't think they are good, they think their compensation for failings is adequate. Unless you have some external validation of that, the chances are you are not as good as you could be. I don't know of one rational person who has done advanced driving training, or adult cycle training and not come away better (excluding from that knobheads who don't listen). Look at the threads passim about speed awareness courses (only a small part of the whole) and you'll see just what I mean when it comes to driving. Cycling? we're all too good and too experienced, aren't we. Having taken advantage of the free adult training that you can get, certainly anywhere in a London borough, I can tell you the same is true with that, too (thanks, Wooly!)

So, how many of you have taken advanced driving training, even though you are piloting around that dangerous lump of metal? (something I think should be compulsory for anyone going onto L/HGV licenses) How many have taken adult cycle training? That training doesn't absolve the rights and responsibilities that are covered in the expectation of others - and experience tells us it is only a small percentage of people who will take the additional care to develop their competence - but it does give you the tools to help keep you out of trouble, on the bike and in the car.

So, while I actually agree with the OP, that's over the first part of the discussion, the expectation on others. I'm off to start a poll to see what people's attitudes to training are.

Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #32 on: 13 December, 2013, 10:09:28 am »
Nice post Ham,
Amen from me.

citoyen

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Re: You could be next. Do you want other cyclists to blame you?
« Reply #33 on: 13 December, 2013, 10:28:08 am »
Nice post Ham,
Amen from me.

We agree on that, at least.  :)
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