The Bread Thread

[The Family Cyclist]

Right technically pizza but its a kinda bread

I was lucky enough to get a pizza stone for Christmas and the very strict instructions say preheat stone and then put the pizza on. Oh great and wise assembled how's the best way to get fairly sticky pizza dough from the large chopping board I make them on to the stone?

[Feanor]

Hand stretch the dough over a floured surface.
Once it's about the right size, hand transfer it to a paddle that has a generous coating of polenta or semolina as a lubricant.
Add the toppings at this point.

Shoogle the topped pizza onto the hot stone and cook.
Even the most wet sticky doughs will slide off a paddle with a good covering of polenta.
I'm using a poolish based dough at 75% hydration, which is very soft and stretches very readily, but is a bit delicate and takes careful handling.

Never attempt to transfer a topped pizza other than by sliding it off a polenta'd paddle.

[Flite]

Supermarkets with in-store bakeries will often sell you fresh yeast

I had forgotten that.
But the nearest supermarket is a 40mile round trip, so I tend to restock at whichever one I'm passing on my way home from doing something more interesting! Which usually means after any in-store bakeries have finished for the day.

[Mrs Pingu]

Right technically pizza but its a kinda bread

I was lucky enough to get a pizza stone for Christmas and the very strict instructions say preheat stone and then put the pizza on. Oh great and wise assembled how's the best way to get fairly sticky pizza dough from the large chopping board I make them on to the stone?

I make mine on a silicone sheet and then put that on the stone (or steel in my case). ICBA with having polenta all over the kitchen floor. (I used a baking sheet as the peel and put the silicone sheet and pizza on using that).

[Jaded]

I use the Doves Farm dried yeast which appears to be vacuum packed, so just in the store cupboard until opened.
Then into an airtight pot and onto a shelf in the fridge.  I make bread 2-3 times a week but it still takes quite a few weeks to use the pot up.  Never had a problem with the yeast.
Can't buy fresh yeast anywhere near here.

I use that too.

My white bread is wonderful, my wholemeal varies and the worst ones could be used to build houses. Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

[The Family Cyclist]

Hand stretch the dough over a floured surface.
Once it's about the right size, hand transfer it to a paddle that has a generous coating of polenta or semolina as a lubricant.
Add the toppings at this point.

Shoogle the topped pizza onto the hot stone and cook.
Even the most wet sticky doughs will slide off a paddle with a good covering of polenta.
I'm using a poolish based dough at 75% hydration, which is very soft and stretches very readily, but is a bit delicate and takes careful handling.

Never attempt to transfer a topped pizza other than by sliding it off a polenta'd paddle.

Appears I may need a paddle then. Other then then the ones I is for propelling my canoe and kayak obviously

[Ham]

My white bread is wonderful, my wholemeal varies and the worst ones could be used to build houses. Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Well, yes, but not so much to cause a radical difference, radical difference is down to the flour itself. One way to make wholemeal lighter is to use 10-15% white. I'd also look at kneading technique, but that may be a long shot

[Flite]

My white bread is wonderful, my wholemeal varies and the worst ones could be used to build houses. Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Our day-to-day bread is about 50:50 white and wholemeal.
But I also regularly make barley buns (50:50 white and beremeal), pitta from flour with bits in and pizza from white pizza flour.
I use the same ratio of yeast to flour for all of them, and start them all off the same way.
I'm not scientific about it and I don't like sourdough bread enough to be bothered with making it.
But I do like to know what is in my food, and avoid the additives found in most shop bread, which  always has far too much sugar anyway.

We don't have artisan bakeries around here.
Which reminds me: It has always puzzled/annoyed me that bakeries that sell unwrapped bread don't have to put up signs saying what ingredients are used.

[Hot Flatus]

My white bread is wonderful, my wholemeal varies and the worst ones could be used to build houses. Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Well, yes, but not so much to cause a radical difference, radical difference is down to the flour itself. One way to make wholemeal lighter is to use 10-15% white. I'd also look at kneading technique, but that may be a long shot

He uses a bread machine (supplied by me). I'll have a word with the machine about its kneading technique 

I've not used my bread machine for a while because I got a sourdough culture on the go to do some baking over the holidays. I've just remembered that there is a sourdough setting in my machine so I'll give it a go and see what happens.

[Jaded]

I do the white flour thing, as that has been recommended by several people.

The wholemeal bread all quite edible, just needs a bit more application to find the slices on the plate. 

[Hot Flatus]

I do the white flour thing, as that has been recommended by several people.

The wholemeal bread all quite edible, just needs a bit more application to find the slices on the plate. 

If you fancy a drive over to Shipton Mill let me know. A sack of Canadian Strong is £10 if you buy it from the mill. They've also got some really nice malted brown flour, seed mixes etc, and fresh yeast

[Jaded]

I do the white flour thing, as that has been recommended by several people.

The wholemeal bread all quite edible, just needs a bit more application to find the slices on the plate. 

If you fancy a drive over to Shipton Mill let me know. A sack of Canadian Strong is £10 if you buy it from the mill. They've also got some really nice malted brown flour, seed mixes etc, and fresh yeast

 

[citoyen]

Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Perhaps more by type of dough - pro bakers use different yeasts for sweet and savoury dough.

[Hot Flatus]

Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Perhaps more by type of dough - pro bakers use different yeasts for sweet and savoury dough.

I've noticed when generating a sourdough culture that flour type matters hugely. Dark rye sends it nuts.

[citoyen]

Oh yes, my starter always goes hyperactive if I feed it with rye flour (white or dark)

It also does better on wholemeal wheat flour than white.

Some people say you should feed it only with the same flour you use to make your bread, which sounds logical but mine seems happy enough being fed whatever I have in the cupboard.

[Hot Flatus]

I've run out of rye and will await Jaded to chauffeur me down to Shipton Mill 

I quite like the little bit of rye (well, it ends up as 33%) in the white loaf. It adds a bit of flavour, consistency and colour.

[Ham]

My white bread is wonderful, my wholemeal varies and the worst ones could be used to build houses. Does yeast vary in effectiveness by type of flour?

Well, yes, but not so much to cause a radical difference, radical difference is down to the flour itself. One way to make wholemeal lighter is to use 10-15% white. I'd also look at kneading technique, but that may be a long shot

He uses a bread machine (supplied by me). I'll have a word with the machine about its kneading technique 

I've not used my bread machine for a while because I got a sourdough culture on the go to do some baking over the holidays. I've just remembered that there is a sourdough setting in my machine so I'll give it a go and see what happens.

As it goes, I was speculating to myself that it was a bread machine that might be not kneading as it should, as it is dead 'ard not to knead sufficiently by hand (and not to notice)    - but  a longshot, just something that might be contributing.

Homebake wholemeal is much denser than shop bought, maybe that's the simple answer?

It's also curious that while rye will feed a sourdough, it does jack for yeast bread, creating a much denser loaf.

[citoyen]

Rye is good at feeding yeast but it has very weak gluten so can’t form the structure needed to give a good rise.

This is why I use rye for dusting my banneton - it makes it much less likely that the dough will stick. (Rice flour is even better for this as it has no gluten at all.)

[Mrs Pingu]

@orienteer, I did think that when I started the dough it looked a bit wetter than I'm used to, but not crazily wet.

@Ham it's the 'same' flour. Although given it's merely Sainsbo's own strong white and stoneground wholemeal, it could well be different flour in the same packet.
Bloody annoying whatever it is.

@Ham, you keep dried yeast in the fridge?

Made bread this weekend. Paid attention, did experiments:
1.Reduced the water from 400ml to 375ml (this is the volume I ended up with when I had that malted bread flour to use up a couple of years back).
2. I ended up opening a fresh bag of strong white as I ran out, so one loaf was mostly old and the other was mostly new packet. I did notice a visible increase in the wetness of the dough made with the older packet compared with the new, so I kneaded a bit more flour into that one as well.
3. I got my Chef Alarm out and measured the temperature. This <2year old oven has always read a bit lower than advertised but this morning it was a whole 25C lower! So the recipe calls for 245C, I usually have the knob set to 255C but this morning it was 230C. 

Anyhoo. The upshot of all that:
Loaves were not all gummy and full of Swiss cheese holes. Win!
They were a bit well fired on top so I maybe don't need to go the whole hog up to 270C on the knob.
They look like they should be a whole lot more edible than the last lot, but I would say the were still a little on the short side, so next time I will try a new box of yeast.

[Flite]

visible increase in the wetness of the dough made with the older packet compared with the new

Yesterday, I had exactly the opposite.
My usual 50:50 mix of wholemeal and white, but a new bag of white. Realised it was a lot wetter than usual, so just chucked in extra flour at the last kneading till it felt right. Bread turned out fine, loaves just a bit bigger than usual!

[Jaded]

I’ve been to Shipton Mill (again…) and have some more floury goodness. Flatus came too, which may surprise.

In the last couple of days i have made a glorious white and a stunning wholemeal.

I think I know why I laid bricks before, and look forward to altering ingredients and timing for the better.

[Ham]

... were still a little on the short side....

One possible cause for lack of expected height (apart from yeast, obv) is dryness. I flatten the top of my loaves with the knuckles of a wet hand, if I don't they fail to achieve the same height.

If your oven is 10% underreading, extending baking time by 10% ish will also work.

[Hot Flatus]

I’ve been to Shipton Mill (again…) and have some more floury goodness. Flatus came too, which may surprise.

In the last couple of days i have made a glorious white and a stunning wholemeal.

I think I know why I laid bricks before, and look forward to altering ingredients and timing for the better.

Started using rye to feed the starter again and it's exploded all over the place. It's amazing the difference it makes. I use 1:3 rye to white flour for the sourdough just by using a rye starter, and I prefer the outcome. Gives the loaf a bit more flavour

[Mrs Pingu]

I’ve been to Shipton Mill (again…) and have some more floury goodness. Flatus came too, which may surprise.

In the last couple of days i have made a glorious white and a stunning wholemeal.

I think I know why I laid bricks before, and look forward to altering ingredients and timing for the better.

What's your theory?

[Mrs Pingu]

Anyone used DME (spray dried malt) or malt extract in bread and want to share?
What I'm going for is trying to make nicer bread for making toast (I like my toast golden and slightly soft, not shattering), I'm not really aiming to change the flavour much, though I appreciate that may be unavoidable...