Author Topic: Tour de France 2012  (Read 143497 times)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #700 on: 18 July, 2012, 08:00:51 pm »
Meanwhile, back in the grupetto...

Quote from: Mark Cavendish
Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
Today's stage can be put into perspective by the fact that by the end I didn't care that I was just puking over myself. Hills+Heat=Suffering
Quote from: David Millar
David Millar ‏@millarmind
@MarkCavendish We could've been puking on each other and we wouldn't have cared. DZ puked all the way home in the bus. It's just wrong.

 :sick: ;D :sick:
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #701 on: 18 July, 2012, 08:31:18 pm »
Wiggers doesn't exactly have the perfect complexion for a sunny day at high altitude, does he?  I imagine he learnt the cardinal rule the hard way, like I did: Never Apply Sun Cream Above Eye Level If You're Going To Sweat.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #702 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:19:10 pm »
Waiting for the highlights and trying to dodge tour info i happened to read this Inner Ring tweet, "Voeckler. No race radio, no power meter, no heart rate monitor. Not even a computer on the handlebars to show speed and distance."

Suspecting i'd got more than a whiff of the outcome didn't detract from another fine show by Tommy, winning with elan, and contrasting well against Sky's contolled domination approach.
Personally i enjoy both but for different reasons, one for sheer all-out determination and the other for openly outlining a strategy and goal  from a long way out and then making it reality over an extended period of time.  Both require great efforts to acheive.

But it got me wondering where does the tour go from here?

Some other teams are looking at replicating some of team Sky's techniques, there is no reason to think that other teams couldn't replicate Sky's entire approach successfully, to some degree though one assumes that the effectiveness of that team would relate to the raw talent available, which in part is determined by each team's budget.  Presumably the consequence would be an even more finely tuned war of attrition, with each team more closely monitoring rider recovery and available daily energy and directing team strategy accordingly to produce a tour of minimum expenditure (which i believe is what Sky do - except for the TT where it's max sustained output).

Of course there is always individuality and personal ambition serving as drivers to shake things up, but i believe that this is where Sky's team management shows its worth.  Contrast with BMC - Sky's riders are well drilled as a team, hence Cav's super domestique role and Froome's easing off having gapped Brad, now consider Tejay VG's selective deafness at the top of tack hill and his post race interview today which (to me at least) suggested he placed more emphasis on his own results than his team leader's, and that has an effect on the team, both directly and indirectly.  Therefore a well managed team will look to eliminate this self interest in the favour of self sacrifice and will surely seek to repair any schisms through reallocation of resources, according to merit.

Suffice to say i believe the main GC teams, through this consitent elimination of minor losses, would evolve to become ever more strong as a unit and ever more controlling in part through team strength and tactics, but also crucially analysis of data in the race.  And so the opportunities for advantage in the race become increasingly slight as teams become ever more capable of nullifying threats and cancelling each other out.

For this reason i imagined an alternative scenario, based upon the tweet above.  One where the teams have all of these technological options available in training, but not in the race.  Instead a rider must become more attuned to his own body, tactics are determined by the riders on the road based upon what they can see and time checks from the motorbike, rather than being plugged into a DS who has live tv coverage and race radio, and assistants processing ever more detailed data streams. 

I wonder which would make for better cycling, which the better spectacle?  Perhaps there are other possibilities?  Perhaps Tommy's stage wins are only possible because of Sky's tactics?

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #703 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:41:25 pm »
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #704 on: 18 July, 2012, 09:44:18 pm »
Yeah, I really enjoyed Tommy doing it old skool. It would be great if Wiggins attacked just for the fuck of it tomorrow, but in this modern age of boring your way to victory, I don't hold out much hope...
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

Karla

  • car(e) free
    • Lost Byway - around the world by bike
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #705 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:20:54 pm »

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #706 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:24:33 pm »
I remember that!

Meanwhile, some wit from the mind of Millar.

https://twitter.com/#!/millarmind/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh0bvuomj
'Something....something.... Something about racing bicycles, but really a profound metaphor about life itself.'  Tim KrabbĂ©. Possibly

aregister

  • On entre OK, on sort KO
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #707 on: 18 July, 2012, 10:55:49 pm »
Yeah, I really enjoyed Tommy doing it old skool. It would be great if Wiggins attacked just for the fuck of it tomorrow, but in this modern age of boring your way to victory, I don't hold out much hope...
I've been reading a biography of Jacques Anquetil and in some ways the 2012 TdF is not too different from 1961. Anquetli's team (the French team) rode "at a sufficient pace to stifle all attacks." By the time they got to the Pyrenees the press was accusing Anquetil and his team of having "killed the race." Anquetil won a total of 2 stages in '61 - both individual time trials!
I suppose all the jeering he got by the crowds was because back then that type of race was a lot less common.

benborp

  • benbravoorpapa
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #708 on: 18 July, 2012, 11:15:48 pm »
I remember that!

Meanwhile, some wit from the mind of Millar.

https://twitter.com/#!/millarmind/media/slideshow?url=http%3A%2F%2Fyfrog.com%2Fh0bvuomj

Looks like a suitable entry for the 'People who park like fuds' thread.
A world of bedlam trapped inside a small cyclist.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #709 on: 18 July, 2012, 11:58:05 pm »
Come on Bradders, give us one for old time's sake!

I remember his time at Cofidis.
Quote
He won the combativity award on stage six for a long solo breakaway, on the 40th anniversary of British rider Tom Simpson's death at the 1967 Tour de France, and his wife Catherine's birthday. Cofidis withdrew after Cristian Moreni failed a doping test, and Wiggins and his team mates were led away from the Tour by police.[6] In the aftermath of Moreni, and race leader Alexandre Vinokurov's positive drug tests, Wiggins spoke out against dopers at the Tour[7], and threw away his Cofidis kit, vowing never to race for the team again.[

The course this year was designed for rouleurs, so it's not surprising that a rouleur is in the lead. It makes for a less demanding Tour with the Olympics in sight.

Jakob

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #710 on: 19 July, 2012, 12:46:18 am »
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

Rig of Jarkness

  • An Englishman abroad
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #711 on: 19 July, 2012, 06:49:43 am »
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

I was about to post something along the same lines.  You've said it for me.
Aero but not dynamic

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #712 on: 19 July, 2012, 07:44:11 am »
I always hated watching the tours Indurain won, but sometimes that's how tours are won. Conversely I always wanted Lance to win. Why did I prefer one dominant force over another? No idea  :)  That's just the way it goes I guess. For some reason I can't warm to Sagan either.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

Hillbilly

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #713 on: 19 July, 2012, 08:07:01 am »
Moaning gits  ;D

This years' tour has inspired me to visit the Vosges mountains, which I've never really considered before.  Plans are being made.  Given the TdF is, in part, run as an advert for France's attractions, I'd say its been successful in my household  :)

(PS: Fingers crossed for Wiggins.  Not an easy stage today)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #714 on: 19 July, 2012, 08:07:16 am »
I can see why Voeckler's been nicknamed "Hollywood". ;D

It will be interesting to see what Brice Feillu's post-stage comments are, I thought he looked pretty unhappy as he crossed the line - I wonder if there had been a deal earlier in the stage that Feillu would let TV take maximum points over each col in return for the stage victory?  :demon:
Going by his horrendous play-acting record during the Tour, and his incredibly evasive post-race interview, i'd say OUI!

If Feillu had taken more turns on the front, and just let TV take the lead at the tops, then maybe, but he didn't, he sat on the majority of the time. Chapeau Thomas  :thumbsup:
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

IanDG

  • The p*** artist formerly known as 'Windy'
    • the_dandg_rouleur
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #715 on: 19 July, 2012, 08:07:37 am »
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

Same old, same old...... Armstrong, Indurain et al. 

Thats the way it seems to be most years now.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #716 on: 19 July, 2012, 08:21:34 am »
Meanwhile, back in the grupetto...

Quote from: Mark Cavendish
Mark Cavendish ‏@MarkCavendish
Today's stage can be put into perspective by the fact that by the end I didn't care that I was just puking over myself. Hills+Heat=Suffering
Quote from: David Millar
David Millar ‏@millarmind
@MarkCavendish We could've been puking on each other and we wouldn't have cared. DZ puked all the way home in the bus. It's just wrong.
Having read those tweets, the footage of Cav signing autographs at the finish becomes quite impressive (in a quiet way). Great idea; getting a sprinter's autograph at the finish of the toughest mountain stage!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

AndyK

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #717 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:34:43 am »

fuzzy

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #718 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:37:38 am »
AndyK, you are a B'stard. My stomach churned briefly till I opened that link ;D

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #719 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:44:19 am »
I'm not sure if it's because Sky & Wiggins are so good this year or the rest are crap, but it's the most boring tour in years.
1 half hearted attack in how many days?..and I don't think anything will happen tomorrow either. *Yawn*. At least Voeckler provided some entertainment today.

No, Sky ARE that good (so far at least). You've only got to look at the back of the pelaton where well known riders with good palmares are being shelled out every day. Just because it looks easy on the front doesn't mean it is, or that riders aren't being torn apart.

(one might'of course, mention that some of the breathtaking audacious attacks of yesteryear were very likely "fuelled" in some way!)

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #720 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:47:46 am »
Wiggins tests positive...

There are surprisingly few pictures of Brad on a scooter, probably because if you are a 6 foot 3 inch stick insect it doesn't look as cool as he might like. Maybe he could have a specially scaled-up one made with his winnings.


tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #721 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:51:42 am »
I love this bit:

Quote
Meanwhile several smaller teams have withdrawn into themselves looking for answers, after their riders tested positive for EMO.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

AndyK

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #722 on: 19 July, 2012, 09:52:51 am »
AndyK, you are a B'stard. My stomach churned briefly till I opened that link ;D

I aim to please.  ;D

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #723 on: 19 July, 2012, 10:09:23 am »
As an antidote to the coming wave of patriotism, I've been trying to remember who the last stage winner born in Great Britain was, not including prologues. I'm wondering if it was Max Sciandri in 1995, stage 11.

Re: Tour de France 2012
« Reply #724 on: 19 July, 2012, 10:54:05 am »
I think you're right  ;)
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)