Author Topic: Totally confused regarding options  (Read 3473 times)

Totally confused regarding options
« on: 21 July, 2022, 03:56:39 pm »
Hi All
This may not be be a sensible question as I realise there are numerous options and opinions regarding devices but I would appreciate a bit of guidance. I have never owned or operated a cycle or running gps . I do often and successfully use a Garmin vehicle sat nav on my motorcycle and run with a non navigation Garmin watch. I wish to tour UK and possibly America and feel I should choose and practice with the options and learn prior to planning or going on trips.
Ideal requirement would be one device for use for on and off road cycle navigation and off road running navigation and that seems to suggest an Etrex 32x ?
And if so do I need to buy it with other maps ( OS, Talky toaster etc.) or use the Gamin supplied and then utilise gpx downloads.
Are there any other cost effective mapping options which may do this.
Or separate devices for each use.
Then this seems to open the options including Wahoo or a rugged smartphone. I do not wish to use a watch to navigate however its not an issue for recording known running and cycle ride routes.
The battery and charging requirements seem clear for all devices its is just which one to get and with what mapping options.
I am normally tech friendly just confused with all the options and reviews. I am also very user friendly with OS and other maps.
I used to be a scout leader along with a lot of mountain navigation and orienteering in my younger days but would like to catch up with the more modern tech available. ( I will still carry maps and a compass on the more remote stuff I have in mind)
For cycling context I rode a lot of Audax but in the 90's and had decent eyesight and a route sheet on my bars and have now retired and wish to travel a bit by bike.
I have used the various search options and read the threads available but unfortunately remain somewhat baffled.
Thank you all in advance

GdS

  • I have come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass
Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #1 on: 21 July, 2022, 09:00:09 pm »
an etrex 32x or even 22x is very good as a basic multi activity device. You can create tracks on any free online mapping software of your choice and they will display as a line on the included TopoActive map. It won't guide you with any degree of your intended route as it eschews roads.

You have to download Basecamp (free) and be conversant with it to use etrexes with any success; it does not come with any instructions you'll have to Google.

Be aware that the 22/32x only come pre-loaded with Europe maps you'll need to go begging online for the free US versions and also buy an SD card to download them (and probably a new fibre broadband contract depending on the size of map)

if you want any proper navigation using routes (which you will have to create on Basecamp and download to the device) you will need either openstreetmaps or the proper Garmin City Navigator which are not cheap

Caveat Emptor!

Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #2 on: 21 July, 2022, 09:25:10 pm »
For running, I’m mostly local and can remember the way. I quite agree about navigating from a watch.

For cycling, I usually start with a plan that gets loaded on a Garmin Edge. That’s more like a cycle computer, with a map that shows where to turn and the context of junctions around it. It’s a bit rubbish for “what’s that over there?”, but quite good for just going for a ride.

If I’m veering off a planned route, or making it up as I go along, these days I’m favouring Komoot on a phone. It’s not perfect, but mostly it works.

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #3 on: 21 July, 2022, 09:45:14 pm »
The eTrex series is a good choice for general outdoor use, can show colour maps including free OSM derived ones, plus can show OS grid references and most coordinate systems in the world. It has a lomg battery life and replaceable AA batteries which is why I like them for audax.

It works great for pre planned routes to follow, or providing an arrow pointing to a summit say if in the mountains, where you have access to a PC to load this information in advance. Where it falls down is if you wish to create a new route on the fly whilst on the road, and you don’t have access to a PC or a usb cable with you.

For touring I’d be wanting to look at the newer Garmin Edge or Wahoo units where new routes can be loaded / updated through your phone via mobile data or Wi-Fi over the Internet

I’ve had OS maps on a gps and in my opinion the screens are too small for it to be effective.  For OS mapping I’d look at the app options for a phone such as OS themselves or Outdoor Navigator (Anquet). I have the latter and it works well on a phone size screen.

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #4 on: 21 July, 2022, 09:58:57 pm »
An Etrex is a bit of a brick for running with. Its an awkward shape, so won't really fit in a pocket on a running vest or shorts etc.
For running, I'd use a watch for simple navigation, ie counting down distance to the next waypoint.
Plus a phone if I want to check a map. I don't bother with a 'rugged' phone, though will put it in a ziplock bag if a risk of getting wet.

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #5 on: 22 July, 2022, 09:52:48 am »
Thank you all for taking the time to respond.
More things to consider but as I said early days so I have the learning opportunities in the UK before
getting totally lost somewhere foreign.
I suspect already from the responses that two devices would make sense and I already have the phone.
Thanks Again
Touche

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #6 on: 22 July, 2022, 10:05:35 am »
You have to download Basecamp (free) and be conversant with it to use etrexes with any success; it does not come with any instructions you'll have to Google.
Not really. I have used my Etrex 20 with Basecamp on about two occasions, and there wasn't really any point. Just do as you said in the rest of your post; plan a route on the router of your choice then upload it to the Etrex.

Mine did come with instructions but they were quite generic and not really useful.

For routing whilst out with an Etrex, I would use eg cycle.travel on my phone and then (try to) upload this to the Etrex (which means having the Garmin cable with its mini USB connector – or does the 3x have Bluetooth?)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #7 on: 22 July, 2022, 11:24:05 am »
You have to download Basecamp (free) and be conversant with it to use etrexes with any success; it does not come with any instructions you'll have to Google.
Not really. I have used my Etrex 20 with Basecamp on about two occasions, and there wasn't really any point. Just do as you said in the rest of your post; plan a route on the router of your choice then upload it to the Etrex.

This depends entirely on whether you want a Track (anything will work) or a Route (anything will work, but the on-road auto-routing on the eTrex will substantially disagree with the planner and lead you astray unless you planned it using Basecamp with the exact same map that's on the unit).  The advantage of the latter is nice friendly turn instructions.


Quote
For routing whilst out with an Etrex, I would use eg cycle.travel on my phone and then (try to) upload this to the Etrex (which means having the Garmin cable with its mini USB connector – or does the 3x have Bluetooth?)

The 30 speaks ANT+ and I once successfully copied a track to it wirelessly from another eTrex.  For uploading while touring I've always used an Android fondleslab and a USB OTG cable.

frankly frankie

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Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #8 on: 29 July, 2022, 10:03:04 am »
I've been totally wedded to the Etrex series since 2006. 
Last week I bought an Edge Explore 2 and have lived with it for a week now.  While there are pros and cons, on balance it is a big improvement on the Etrex, and can be configured and used in just the same way.  I set mine up as a standalone without - I repeat without - any phone pairing or use of Garmin Connect, and it gives a bigger and better screen than the Etrex in a slimmer and lighter package.  However the new model would be a huge learning curve without all my prior experience to draw on.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #9 on: 29 July, 2022, 10:32:54 am »
Last week I bought an Edge Explore 2 and have lived with it for a week now. 

I have had lower end edges (200/510/520/530) for a dozen years for touring / audax but getting older, eyes not as great, I have decided a bigger touch screen model will be in order for my next birthday, horrified by the cost of the otherwise attractive 1040 (I would never use 80% of the features) and so leaning to a compromise Explore 2, will be really interested in your real life experience with it. The Explore 2 looks ideal but Garmin's market segmentation selective crippling of things like the battery might be a concern. DC Rainmaker says it should give at least 30 hours in battery saver mode (compared with 70 for the 1040), I currently can get 40 hrs from my 530 with similar saving mode options

Good luck with it let us know how it performs.

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #10 on: 29 July, 2022, 10:57:52 am »
I wish to tour UK and possibly America and feel I should choose and practice with the options and learn prior to planning or going on trips.

Yes, you are very right. This has nothing to do with being tech savvy, this is understanding how your unit reacts in given circumstances, this is not something you want to be discovering at a critical moment.

The issue with smartphone is that you have all your eggs in a single basket, without batter swap out capability. Works for some people. If your proclivities include being off the beaten track for extended periods, then AA power becomes a key desirable, this in turn pushes the choices in a certain direction, along with topographic capability.

Quote
I used to be a scout leader along with a lot of mountain navigation and orienteering in my younger days but would like to catch up with the more modern tech available. ( I will still carry maps and a compass on the more remote stuff I have in mind)

If this is a factor, I would throw my choice into the ring, the Garmin Oregon As you were, it isn't made any more. Various other garmin handhelds fit the biill (eg https://www.garmin.com/en-GB/p/669284#specs) but I dont know how they work on a bike, and they are chunkier. Also, handheld is unlikely to be suitable for running.

frankly frankie

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Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #11 on: 29 July, 2022, 12:01:52 pm »
Last week I bought an Edge Explore 2 and have lived with it for a week now. 

I have had lower end edges (200/510/520/530) for a dozen years for touring / audax but getting older, eyes not as great, I have decided a bigger touch screen model will be in order for my next birthday, horrified by the cost of the otherwise attractive 1040 (I would never use 80% of the features) and so leaning to a compromise Explore 2, will be really interested in your real life experience with it. The Explore 2 looks ideal but Garmin's market segmentation selective crippling of things like the battery might be a concern. DC Rainmaker says it should give at least 30 hours in battery saver mode (compared with 70 for the 1040), I currently can get 40 hrs from my 530 with similar saving mode options

Good luck with it let us know how it performs.

My impression so far is that used 'all out' (ie Navigating, map displayed, 70% backlight off after 2 mins, full GPS-multi-GNSS) It'll be fine for a long day ride but for anything longer I'd be trying 'battery saver' mode and a shorter timeout on the light.  Unfortunately the documentation of the GPS modes is poor - the temptation is to set and forget to 'multi-GNSS' (whatever that means) but I seriously doubt if there is any practical advantage, except maybe in urban canyons, and plain GPS will surely be less battery-hungry.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #12 on: 30 July, 2022, 04:48:20 am »
My impression so far is that used 'all out' (ie Navigating, map displayed, 70% backlight off after 2 mins, full GPS-multi-GNSS) It'll be fine for a long day ride but for anything longer I'd be trying 'battery saver' mode and a shorter timeout on the light.  Unfortunately the documentation of the GPS modes is poor - the temptation is to set and forget to 'multi-GNSS' (whatever that means) but I seriously doubt if there is any practical advantage, except maybe in urban canyons, and plain GPS will surely be less battery-hungry.
Thanks, also for your longer review in the other thread.

Amount of backlight required is a bit like saddles, can be very different between riders. my 40 hours on the 530 comes from what some people would consider extreme "battery saving" so zero backlight for daytime use, no phone connection, and a few of the other recommended settings, I note that "battery save" mode still uses 30% backlight / always on which seems excessive to me. I find the zero backlit screen level perfectly adequate, clear, readable. My decision re Explore 2 will be mostly based on whether it can also provide the same visibility with no backlight, interested in your view of this. Garmin in its distribution wisdom says there will be no stock of Explore 2s (or 1040s) in my region (Australia) for "5 - 8 weeks" so I have plenty of time to research.

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #13 on: 30 July, 2022, 12:20:23 pm »
Thank you all for the very interesting comments so far.
I think it is already clear to me that one device is not practical and I should get the best option (hopefully) for each sport

I've been totally wedded to the Etrex series since 2006. 
Last week I bought an Edge Explore 2 and have lived with it for a week now.  While there are pros and cons, on balance it is a big improvement on the Etrex, and can be configured and used in just the same way.  I set mine up as a standalone without - I repeat without - any phone pairing or use of Garmin Connect, and it gives a bigger and better screen than the Etrex in a slimmer and lighter package.  However the new model would be a huge learning curve without all my prior experience to draw on.

Was the version you bought with the charging baseplate or are you testing without to get used to the operation and battery life.
I am happy to either use a dyno hub run through a sinewave or similar or just a battery pack.
Do you think the charging base is a decent and hopefully reliable addition ?
And regarding your comment regarding using as a standalone and not pairing to a phone or Garmin Connect is this for testing
purposes or do you think it is better / more reliable in operation as a standalone device ?
With regard to the learning curve I suspect this will be steep whatever device I go for. Hence the thought of getting it a long way out
from a trip.
 

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #14 on: 31 July, 2022, 01:57:32 am »

Do you think the charging base is a decent and hopefully reliable addition ?
And regarding your comment regarding using as a standalone and not pairing to a phone or Garmin Connect is this for testing
purposes or do you think it is better / more reliable in operation as a standalone device ?
With regard to the learning curve I suspect this will be steep whatever device I go for. Hence the thought of getting it a long way out
from a trip.

I don't have an Explore 2 yet, the "Power" model isn't available yet (on Garmin UK site, "Estimated availability is 5 – 8 weeks"), I will likely get the standard one when they become available in my region. I think the charging adaptor is an expensive & unnecessary addition, better to just connect a generic power bank (or your sinewave) via the USB port, much easier now due to the USB-C and available for other devices you might want to charge and likely better for the health of the device battery  rather than a continuous always on connection via the charging base. Also in my experience with a number of Garmins they are more stable, reliable without a phone connection especially while actually riding, handy at the end of the ride for syncing the ride to mapping sites (like garmin Connect or RWGPS)  if you do that. I have the "pairing" established but disabled until I actually want to use it. And again they DO have a learning curve, have some odd habits but the Explore 2 has much of the performance/training stuff removed leaving the touring / audax useful stuff in place so a bit easier and with a bit of usage you will be a guru too (but many other gurus for help on these forums)

frankly frankie

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Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #15 on: 31 July, 2022, 11:40:40 am »
... my 40 hours on the 530 comes from what some people would consider extreme "battery saving" so zero backlight for daytime use, no phone connection, and a few of the other recommended settings, I note that "battery save" mode still uses 30% backlight / always on which seems excessive to me. I find the zero backlit screen level perfectly adequate, clear, readable. My decision re Explore 2 will be mostly based on whether it can also provide the same visibility with no backlight, interested in your view of this.

I think in battery saving mode you'd still have easy access to turn the backlight down to zero.  The Explorer 2 native un-backlit screen brightness and contrast is exactly the same as my Etrex 30x - but the screen area is very nearly double and that, along with much improved font rendering, makes a big difference to general legibility.  That is just comparing those two models - I don't know the 530 but I imagine the Explore 2 is similar.  On my Etrex 30 I do need some backlight in most daylight conditions - I use about 50% and a 30-second timeout.  Yesterday taking the Ex2 out in overcast conditions (best, I find, for an unlit screen) it was indeed very usable without backlight - though still better 'company' with a lit screen.

Thank you all for the very interesting comments so far.
I think it is already clear to me that one device is not practical and I should get the best option (hopefully) for each sport

Compared with the Etrex, the Explore is NOT a good hand-held or walker's device.  It seems over-sensitive to any erratic movements (such as dangling from a lanyard) and, as I mentioned elsewhere, the track-up map is not steady at slow walking speeds, although fine at cycling speeds.

Quote
Was the version you bought with the charging baseplate or are you testing without to get used to the operation and battery life.
I am happy to either use a dyno hub run through a sinewave or similar or just a battery pack.
Do you think the charging base is a decent and hopefully reliable addition ?
And regarding your comment regarding using as a standalone and not pairing to a phone or Garmin Connect is this for testing
purposes or do you think it is better / more reliable in operation as a standalone device ?

I'm no longer interested in anything longer than a 10-hour day - on tour say - and don't expect to take it anywhere where I can't recharge it overnight - so I'm not really exploring the runtime limits as you might wish.  The external power base looks very overpriced to me, but I suppose if you have a regular need for extended runtime then it's an option.  It's poor from Garmin that the basic unit doesn't have the power contacts in the mount - meaning its not upgradeable/retrofittable. If you only have very occasional need - 1x 600km per year and PBP maybe - then I would think powering it externally in the usual way would suffice. 
But I would argue quite strongly that for a mission-critical ride such as PBP I would not want to be reliant on rechargable anything - neither lights nor GPS.  I would still say the Etrex is a better tool for that job, you can buy new AAs anywhere along the route and you'd only need to do that once.

Standalone - I'm quite impressed with how well this works - for our purposes this is how we will be using it, in a dumb 'track overlayed on map' mode.  General setup is no more difficult than it is on the Etrex.  The only drawback (and it is a serious one) is the need to physically connect via USB to add new Tracks and remove recorded Tracklogs.  Constant USB disconnection is I fear a sure resipe for bricking the device sooner or later.  (x-post with LateStarter above)
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Totally confused regarding options
« Reply #16 on: 31 July, 2022, 11:47:40 am »
I’d imagine if you paired your Explore 2 with a phone then you’d transfer tracks and tracklogs via the phone. Thus eliminate the need for all the usb connecting.