Author Topic: The Bread Thread (Read 109914 times)

Ham · « **Reply #750 on:** 15 March, 2022, 03:06:07 pm »

Well I may have to get a fixie now.

With a houseful for the foreseeable future (I can't see further than 3 months) and some enthusiastic appetites, I'm baking about 3Kg of flour a week. I thought the time had come for me to make sourdough again. So, meet

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Ham · « **Reply #751 on:** 17 March, 2022, 09:35:45 pm »

Well, despite various reference works saying that you should discard the first bit of starter before feeding and using, I've decided to gamble a few hundred grams of flour and see what happens. Volodymyr seems to be very happy in his work, and the first prove at room temperature was fine, dough sitting in fridge now overnight. 70%-ish hydration, texture is fine, it's as non-sticky as a 70% can be, doesn't stick when you handle, although it is a bit sloppy. It's been over 20 years since I last baked sourdough, and I'm still using a plastic bowl, I do have some banneton on order you'll be pleased to hear. The thing that's challenging me now is the baking - I think I'll put into a hot oven (220 fan) from cold, with a hot water tray, much as I would for baguette (only slightly cooler) as I'd be baking for crust. How do any of you that know what you are doing do it?

Ham · « **Reply #752 on:** 18 March, 2022, 09:08:25 am »

Well, verdict is could do better, but I'm not too unhappy

could have done with baking a bit longer, and there is a bit too much chewiness, flavour and texture overall good, will make ace toast. Certainly worth the experiment rather than discard. Sponge looks good now.

citoyen · « **Reply #753 on:** 18 March, 2022, 09:23:29 am »

That looks decent.

Ham · « **Reply #754 on:** 19 March, 2022, 01:44:57 pm »

#2

Experimenting with baking temperature (lower)

Again, not too shabby but still too damp, aeration not as pronounced or even but actually a nice texture in the mouth. I wonder if that's the plastic bowl I'm using, and the banneton will help lose some moisture. 70% hydration again.

Ham · « **Reply #755 on:** 20 March, 2022, 12:18:26 pm »

Indications are that it is Volodmyr that is too immature.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #756 on:** 20 March, 2022, 12:41:14 pm »

Not sure if you know this but if you use Rye to feed the starter it really helps

Ham · « **Reply #757 on:** 20 March, 2022, 04:46:05 pm »

Assume I know nothing (which works in 90% of instances), sounds like it would be worth a go. I might be in danger of having to look at a real recipe then, as my base calculation (200g of starter=100 flour,100 water) would likely be off as a result.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #758 on:** 20 March, 2022, 04:49:07 pm »

Rye is definitely worth a try. I think last time I bred a starter it was viable in 3 days with rye.

Yes, rye based starter will affect the recipe. I can't remember which way round it is (less vs more water) but you'll just have to suck it and see

citoyen · « **Reply #759 on:** 20 March, 2022, 07:22:28 pm »

Quote from: Hot Flatus on 20 March, 2022, 04:49:07 pm

I can't remember which way round it is (less vs more water)

Rye is relatively low in gluten compared to wheat so less water would make sense.

I feed my starter with white rye but I've never factored flour type into the calculations. I tend to use a fairly low quantity of starter though, so I can't imagine it makes much difference.

To be honest, I'm pretty slapdash in my approach but it usually turns out edible, which is all I really care about.

Ham · « **Reply #760 on:** 25 March, 2022, 11:02:06 am »

Level up!

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Mr Larrington · « **Reply #761 on:** 25 March, 2022, 11:06:10 am »

Send it to Teethgrinder!

hatler · « **Reply #762 on:** 25 March, 2022, 11:49:51 am »

Curling stone.

citoyen · « **Reply #763 on:** 25 March, 2022, 12:32:55 pm »

Throw it for a dog to catch.

Ham · « **Reply #764 on:** 25 March, 2022, 01:24:26 pm »

And add an RSPCA ticket to my rap sheet? No thanks.

citoyen · « **Reply #765 on:** 25 March, 2022, 03:09:05 pm »

This is what came out of my oven this morning:

sourdough by citoyen, on Flickr

Sourdough by citoyen, on Flickr

Made with bog standard Allinson Very Strong White at around 60% hydration. Being relatively low hydration, it makes for a fairly stiff dough and you don't get those big air bubbles, but it's so much easier to work with and far less prone to collapsing under its own weight, so no danger of pancakes. Baked it in the cast iron thing at 200ºC for 40 minutes, then a final 10 minutes with the lid off. Not much oven spring - I didn't score the top and it obviously didn't produce enough lift to break the surface of its own accord.

My starter is very active at the moment - I'm feeding it twice a day. Using the discard to make sourdough crumpets. Which are amazing.

(50g starter, 100g flour, 120ml milk/water mix, 1/2 tsp salt, leave in a warm place until full of bubbles, then stir in a whisked egg white and a pinch of bicarb dissolved in 2tbsp water. Dollop onto a hot griddle to cook - for crumpets, use a ring and only cook on one side; for pikelets, don't use a ring and cook on both sides.)

Feanor · « **Reply #766 on:** 29 March, 2022, 09:12:44 pm »

That's looking pretty decent!

Got home from a 3 week absence, and we don't have a levain-sitter in out employ.
However, it's perked up 100% as normal, and will be ready for a dough mix tomorrow.

In the meantime, I did a yeast-leavened overnight wholemeal to tide us over. Do not under-estimate the nomminess of a yeast bread. It's not all about sourdough.

Tim Hall · « **Reply #767 on:** 02 April, 2022, 07:37:50 pm »

Just on my way home from ~~hipster central~~ Hackney, where I've been on a sourdough baking course at the E5 Bakehouse. Brilliant day out, much to remember, much to try out.

Feanor · « **Reply #768 on:** 12 April, 2022, 11:31:16 am »

The anatomy of Pizza

So with a bit of a family get-together as an excuse, pizza was made!
Pizza, like it's close cousin focaccia, is essentially a bread product.
And it's the bread part of it I want to talk about here.
(This is what is sometimes called a Neapolitan style Pizza.)

This dough is based on a Poolish, which is a pre-fermented mix of half of the flour along with an equal weight of water (100% hydrated), and a tiny sprinkling of yeast (0.4g). This ferments for 14 hours overnight before the final dough is mixed, followed by a bulk ferment period of around 6 hours. The dough is then divided and shaped, and allowed to final proof for a couple of hours before it's ready for hand-stretching, topping and cooking!

This evil-looking primordial slurry is the Poolish after 14 hours overnight fermentation!:

Pizza by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

The final-mixed dough after two 'folds' in the 6 hour bulk fermentation phase. This had been mixed to 72% hydration. You can go up to 75%, but it's so soft it becomes difficult to handle and stretch.

Pizza by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

Divided and shaped ready for final proof:

Pizza by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

Apply some fire...

Pizza by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

Add some wine, and eat...

Pizza by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

There was another batch of dough too, which was a full-on sourdough made from fermentzilla living in the fridge. However (and somewhat controversially), I actually prefer the Poolish dough for pizza. I find the 100% sourdough a wee bit too strongly flavoured and tangy for pizza. The very slow ferment of the poolish gives the flavour I prefer.

John Stonebridge · « **Reply #769 on:** 12 April, 2022, 11:47:24 am »

Looks tasty Ron.

Nice to see you supporting 6 Degrees North as well!

Feanor · « **Reply #770 on:** 12 April, 2022, 11:57:07 am »

Quote from: John Stonebridge on 12 April, 2022, 11:47:24 am

Nice to see you supporting 6 Degrees North as well!

Local club connection there...

Sandy Lindsay is El Supremo of our cycle club, DTCC.
Robert Lindsay, founder of 6 Degrees North is his son, who makes regular appearances on club rides.
They are the sponsors of the local Stonehaven beer and cycling event:
https://www.midsummerbeerhappening.co.uk/

Sadly, there's no club discount available...

citoyen · « **Reply #771 on:** 12 April, 2022, 01:08:54 pm »

Looks splendid, Feanor. I really must build a bread oven in the garden some day.

slope · « **Reply #772 on:** 18 April, 2022, 05:58:27 pm »

New better (but still totally cheapo) oven = new improved bread. 50/50 stoneground strong white/wholemeal spelt with pebbeldash sunflower seeds. Instant yeast, knead for 10 minutes, whack it straight in the tin, wait an hour (no knock back) and bake = surprisingly acceptable. All that magic energy ripping its crust heavenwards🖕

NB I only eat bread toasted - and no comparisons with other types implied

Do love making pizza dough with 3-5 day fridge cold ferment too

Feanor · « **Reply #773 on:** 29 April, 2022, 03:42:20 pm »

Bit of a variation today - an Olive Bread.

This is a 100% levain-levened sourdough, using a 'blonde' flour mix; ie mostly strong white but with some wholemeal and rye in the mix, giving a golden colour to the bread.

Getting the Kalamata olives to incorporate into the dough was quite hard. You can fold them in, and work the mixture, but they just fall back out again and roll around the bottom of the mixing bowl. The dough did not want to accept them at all. But if you persevere, they do eventually incorporate.

I'm happy with the results.

Olive bread by Ron Lowe, on Flickr

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #774 on:** 29 April, 2022, 07:27:30 pm »

Looks nice!