Nokon cables or alternative

[321up]

I'm planning to replace all the cables (inner and outer) on our tandem.  The cable set supplied with the tandem was Shimano outer and Jagwire inner.  The gears (Shimano 9 speed triple with Tiagra STI levers) have always been a bit problematic but I managed to get them working fairly reliably with very careful adjustment (a different rear mech and changing the cable routing improved things a bit, but gear changing is no way near as good as my solo's).  Due to cable stretch/compression I have to set the clearances on the rear brake fairly close and adjust frequently.  I want to minimise cable losses due to compression of the outer and stretch of the inner. 

I think Nokons or similar might be an improvement (never tried them myself), but is there something significantly cheaper which would work as well, or at least significantly better than our current cable set?

I've heard that Nokons will allow a tighter bend to go around a bar bag.  Alternatively brake noodle can be fitted to the gear cable where it exits from the STI lever to achieve the same thing, but I wonder if one is better than the other in any way?

I recently discovered that the Jagwire gear cables used by our supplier are only 1.1mm diameter, whereas I think Shimano cables are usually 1.2mm.  I wonder why our supplier would chose a 1.1mm diameter cable and if larger diameter gear cable might also help?

What are the best gear & brake cable inner's for a tandem?

I also wonder if it would reduce compression on the outer to use metal ferrules instead of the plastic ones it was supplied with?

Thanks, A.

[T42]

No opinion of Nokons. Chum of mine had them and just shrugged when asked if they were better. I take that to mean he didn't notice a difference.

[marcusjb]

Jagwire themselves have a Nokon-alike housing:

http://jagwire.com/products/v/road_elite_link_shift

(I've not tried them, but the concept seems sound and the pricing is slightly keener than Nokon)

I've used Jagwire inner and outers on all my bikes and they've always given good results.

[Kim]

I recently discovered that the Jagwire gear cables used by our supplier are only 1.1mm diameter, whereas I think Shimano cables are usually 1.2mm.  I wonder why our supplier would chose a 1.1mm diameter cable and if larger diameter gear cable might also help?

Certainly worth a try if you're finding the indexing marginal, I'd have thought.  Probably more likely to help than posh outers.

[Mr Larrington]

I've used the noodle trick on Cosimo the Stealth Baron, who is my racing recumbent, as his handlebars are very narrow and consequently require a tight bend where the gear cable emerges from the (grip) shifters.  Definitely improved matters.

[PhilO]

I recently discovered that the Jagwire gear cables used by our supplier are only 1.1mm diameter, whereas I think Shimano cables are usually 1.2mm.  I wonder why our supplier would chose a 1.1mm diameter cable and if larger diameter gear cable might also help?

Certainly worth a try if you're finding the indexing marginal, I'd have thought.  Probably more likely to help than posh outers.

There'll be a trade-off between reduced stretch and increased friction, I'd have thought. That might explain the supplier's choice. Only one way to be sure which effect wins, though....

I've used the brake noodles trick on both my 'bent, and the Rohloff shifter on the MTB. My experience matches Mr Larrington's.

[Kim]

I recently discovered that the Jagwire gear cables used by our supplier are only 1.1mm diameter, whereas I think Shimano cables are usually 1.2mm.  I wonder why our supplier would chose a 1.1mm diameter cable and if larger diameter gear cable might also help?

Certainly worth a try if you're finding the indexing marginal, I'd have thought.  Probably more likely to help than posh outers.

There'll be a trade-off between reduced stretch and increased friction, I'd have thought. That might explain the supplier's choice. Only one way to be sure which effect wins, though....

Yeahbut if the cable diameter's wrong, the effective radius of the rotatey bit in the shifter will be different; it'll pull the wrong amount of cable per click.  (Not sure how much difference 0.1mm actually makes, but if things are marginal already...)

[David Martin]

More likely to be compression issues than stretch IMO. If you can reduce the amount of outer used (ie by having exposed inner for as much as possible) then it may well improve things.

[jsabine]

Yeahbut if the cable diameter's wrong, the effective radius of the rotatey bit in the shifter will be different; it'll pull the wrong amount of cable per click.  (Not sure how much difference 0.1mm actually makes, but if things are marginal already...)

Sod all, I suspect ...

<wild assumption>
<delusions of accuracy>
If the effective diameter of the ratchet's cable path is 20mm, and the ratchet moves 20 deg for each gear, then the cable movement is 3.49066 per gear. Reduce the diameter to 19.9mm, and the movement is 3.47321mm.

Slightly less than a fiftieth of a millimetre ...

There's probably at least a millimetre's float in the upper jockey wheel.

[Chris S]

Once you've done a few gritty, skoggy, wet winter rides, I suspect differences between cable makes are reduced to Not Much. I find the "tail" that runs up to the rear mech is particularly susceptible to grit/corrosion ingress.

FWIW - I think Nokon cables look right fugly  .

[Mr Larrington]

(Decides not to show Mr Smith his rock-star-stylee Native American arrowhead necklace which uses a similar arrangement)