Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => Topic started by: mattc on 18 September, 2012, 09:02:37 am
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Moderator's note:
Please contribute to Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=53372.0) when you have suitable comparisons. General chat about tyre/rim combination goes here.
Generally I've found wire beaded tyres to be more of a pain to fit than kevlar beaded folding tyres.
I wish I remembered some of the combinations that have proved the most difficult to deal with. There was a combination a few FNRttCs ago, that we had to fit multiple times, and took three of us, using a VAR lever and two tyre levers to get on. Inevitably on at least one occasion we ended up putting a snake bite into the inner tube when putting it back on. I got better at removing it (I think we had to do that five times before we gave up), but we never really sorted out how to get it on efficiently, we just barely managed. I've very rarely had problems fitting tyres on, I think this was only the second occasion on a FNRttC when I've had significant problems, so I'm reasonably practised at removing and replacing tyres. After an hour or so, we gave in, and left the guy with the bike waiting for a Taxi that he'd arranged to come and pick him up.
I forget exactly who I was with, but Adrian did join us after the first couple of repairs, and whilst that gave someone else to help turn the air blue, he didn't have any more success than the two of us TECing at that point had previously had.
It was a narrow Conti racing tyre, but I don't know what the rim was, or the exact Conti tyre.
Glad you posted that, Tim. Hopefully people won't feel so embarassed when they post about a freak problem combo in the future, not if someone with your experience can still struggle :thumbsup:
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... After an hour or so, we gave in, and left the guy with the bike waiting for a Taxi that he'd arranged to come and pick him up. ...
Glad you posted that, Tim. Hopefully people won't feel so embarassed when they post about a freak problem combo in the future, not if someone with your experience can still struggle :thumbsup:
Indeed, some tyre / rim combinations just seem to be a nightmare. The occasions when I've had problems have always seemed to be narrow tyres on narrow racing rims. I can't recall ever having significant problems with a BSO, hybrid, or mountain bike, which is not to say that this isn't possible! This could also just reflect the relative preponderance of road racing type bikes on these rides however. In my own stable, the only tyres that have caused me problems recently, were narrow(ish) wire beaded conti tyres on Red, but I've had no problems with that since I binned those tyres (not very fairy proof) and replaced them with something that folds and is a lot more resilient. I suspect that part of the problem could be that a narrow rim makes it harder to get the bead into the central (deeper) section of the rim, which you generally rely on to make it easier to get that last little bit on.
I wonder how many tyre repairs I've done now? It's a rare FNRttC when I don't do at least one! I also did them a lot more frequently when I first moved to London, but modern tyres are lot harder wearing and generally proof against the fairy (I'm going to pay for that statement, aren't I!)
On that particular FNRttC, we had to give up because we were simply getting exhausted from the effort of doing it (not to mention running out of inner tubes!), and Simon had already had to continue moving the front of the ride forward several times, to stop them standing around for too long and getting cold. It took quite a while to get the ride fully back together again (barely achieved before the half way stop, as I recall).
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Continental Grand prix 3000(folding) on Rigida DP18 is one of the worst combinations I've tried in years.
I broke a lever and my fingers still hurt.
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DT Swiss X470 29" rims
Continental Cyclocross plus 700 x 32mm mounts without use of tools.
And the big surprise :o
Schwalbe Marathon plus Tour 70 x 42mm mounts without use of any crying, swearing or tools.
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Indeed, some tyre / rim combinations just seem to be a nightmare. The occasions when I've had problems have always seemed to be narrow tyres on narrow racing rims. I can't recall ever having significant problems with a BSO, hybrid, or mountain bike, which is not to say that this isn't possible!
Some old Michelin 559-35 road tyres were a nightmare on my MTB's original rims. Better but still damn tight on the Bontrager Matrix 550 rims on Mrs B's MTB, where the usual problem is tyres being too loose.
We still have those tyres, very lightly used. If there's anyone out there who has rims which it's a struggle to find tyres tight enough for, they're welcome to 'em. They have pretty good puncture resistance, as I remember, & rool OK. Only fault is the tightness.
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Don't take the Spa video too literally. He says it doesn't matter where you start. Sorry chum, it does (can) with an awkward one.
The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.
On a side issue, I never cease to be amazed at the number of very experienced cyclists who struggle generally with a puncture because they have no apparent appreciation of the principles of what they are trying to do when removing/fitting a tyre.
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The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.
??? I've always found the exact opposite works best for me. When refitting and starting at the valve I push the valve into the wheel a bit until the tyre is seated and then pull it outwards again.
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I'd go with the way Blueth does it, if you start and end at the valve, then it's providing no obstruction whatsoever to getting the bead as deep as possible into the well of the rim. If you start away from the valve, it's going to provide a little obstruction, which may be just the difference between the tyre going on, and not. It also doesn't really provide any advantage doing it that way either, whilst possibly making things harder.
You should generally push the valve in a bit, to make sure that the inner tube around the valve hasn't got caught below the bead, which at best could cause the tyre to distort a bit until pressure causes the inner tube to pop out, at worst it could cause the inner tube to burst.
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The rule is start and finish at the valve, ie when removing start at the valve and when fitting finish at the valve. This is to enable the bead of the tyre to sit right down in the well of the rim, which it an't gonna do if that space is already occupied by a valve stem.
??? I've always found the exact opposite works best for me. When refitting and starting at the valve I push the valve into the wheel a bit until the tyre is seated and then pull it outwards again.
Definitely remove from opposite the valve, and refit starting at the valve.
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I suppose we all have our own experience to fall back on but, leaving theory aside, forty-odd years of fitting motorcycle tyres with short levers (where necessary) tells me what won't work and what makes it easier. :)
On which point, though I've never had that much of a problem with bicycle tyres, it might be worthwhile carrying a small container of suitable lubricant if you have a really bad tyre/rim combination to deal with on sorting a puncture.
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Finishing at the valve helps to prevent the tube getting pinched because you can push the last bit of tube out of the way (via the valve). On the other hand, it's easier to end up with the valve correctly aligned if you finish after it.
I do the former for a tight tyre and the latter for a loose tyre. I can manage either way any time anyway.
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I've always fitted starting at the valve. Will make a mental note to try the opposite next time I'm fitting a bastard tyre...
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If you start away from the valve, it's going to provide a little obstruction, which may be just the difference between the tyre going on, and not.
Good point, I'll have to try this alternative refitting method with that bl**dy Rigida Chrina. :thumbsup:
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I think every tyre is probably difficult on Exal XR2 rims...
This might well be true. I was expecting the exal's be a bit tight when I plumped for these rims. Anyway, FWIW:
Mavic Open 4CD / Continental Grand Prix 4 Season 25mm* - easy. In fact last year LWaB managed to show me how the tyre and tube could be pulled off in a oner without any tyre levers (impressive - and I was grateful at 1 o'clock in the morning).
OTOH
Exal XR2 / Continental Grand Prix 4 Season 28mm* - very very tight. Not so tight that I never thought I'd get them on, but tight enough to remind me of doing motorbike tyres, and also that I shall always carry 3 levers in case I break one. I'm not looking forward to having sort out a puncture with cold wet hands in the middle of the night etc etc. I hope I have the presence of mind to take it slowly and use some kind of lubricant (chamois cream, sun cream etc) as that'll ease it lots.
*Assumption here is that, for comparison purposes, both widths of Continental's are similar in diameter.
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Anyone fitted tyres to or removed them from Mavic Open Sports?
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Wacky tip of the week.
A warm tyre is easier to get on a rim than a cold tyre.
So, while you are applying the repair patch, fold the tyre and put it down your shorts.
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A pair of Durano Etape tyres 700x25C and a new Chrina wheel have gone back to SPA cycles after a struggle to put the two together. The wheel is being rebuilt -apparently a bad batch of rims.
Makes me wonder who else has had some of that batch - or was I just the first?
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I fitted a 50mm Schwalbe Marathon Supreme onto a Velocity Blunt P35
It was probably the most difficult fit I've done recently, But...and this is actual useful information, unlike ...[redacted to protect the guilty]... on this thread the reason for this is that the tyre was "tubeless ready" To work as a tubeless tyre you need a nice tight fit. So if you don't want that, don't get any of the tubeless ready tyres that are becoming more common
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I fitted a 50mm Schwalbe Marathon Supreme onto a Velocity Blunt P35
It was probably the most difficult fit I've done recently, But...and this is actual useful information, unlike ...[redacted to protect the guilty]... on this thread the reason for this is that the tyre was "tubeless ready" To work as a tubeless tyre you need a nice tight fit. So if you don't want that, don't get any of the tubeless ready tyres that are becoming more common
IIRC, where the tyre is in the clincher, the air pressure force is lateral and pushes the tyre bead into the clincher. IME, only when the tyre is not mounted correctly or the tyre's bead fails, will inflation pressure lift the bead out of the clincher.
A non clincher tyre can be forced off the rim by over inflation. I've seen that. They rely on VERY clean rims for a 'grip'. If there is oil or grease on the rim's internal face, the tyre slides.
Q. With a tubeless, is there a sealing compound used to produce a tight fit between tyre and rim?
Just curious, I have no intention on changing to tubeless.
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A pair of Durano Etape tyres 700x25C and a new Chrina wheel have gone back to SPA cycles after a struggle to put the two together. The wheel is being rebuilt -apparently a bad batch of rims.
Makes me wonder who else has had some of that batch - or was I just the first?
I did some looking around the other day, & found there are a lot of reports over the last few years about inconsistent sizes of Rigida rims. There was some speculation that it might be connected with the Ryde takeover.
From being a specialist firm making all its rims in a factory in France, Rigida has gone to being a brand name of a bigger firm, along with Weinmann, Alesa, & Van Schothorst, with products made in factories in the Netherlands, Hungary, Malaysia & China.
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Schwalbe One Tubeless on Pacenti SL23 is a right b*****. In part to be expected as tubeless, but betlyond funny. I split my thumb away from the nail causing blood to appear before resorting to levers. Then they didn't seal due to too narrow rim tape, I think.
Better not have a non sealant fixed puncture on the road...
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Maxxis Re-Fuse 23mm fitted on Magic Kysyrium Equipe, very easy to fit with just your fingers........but to remove, the equivalent of fitting Marathon plus in reverse, an absolute nightmare, always expect plastic levers to snap.
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Schwalbe Marathon Racers onto 406 Alex DA-15 rims were a bugger, and also what I was running during the Fairy-infested Rural South 300 in 2005. Losing the head of my pump with about 80 km still to go did little for my peace of mind but fortunately She Who Must Not Be Named decided to leave me alone for the rest of the evening.
The worstest tyres in the history of all things ever were no-name Halfords 559 slicks on the Bontrager(?) rims on my old Trek 930. I fitted them after copious swearing, washing-up liquid and gardening gloves, and Miss von Brandenburg used the bike for commuting for a while and was happy, because they rolled better than the crappy knobblies it wore before.
Then she had a p*nct*r*.
She could not get the tyre off even a little bit. Nor could a burly and leather-gloved member of Her Majesty's Finest who took pity of the damsel in distress. Said copper loaded bike and Miss von Brandenburg into his van and took them to the nearest bike shop. Their mechanic could not budge the tyre either. Miss von Brandenburg left the bike in their care and completed her commute by bus.
In the evening the Trek sported a set of shiny new slicks from a reputable manufacturer. Apparently professional-grade cable cutters were involved. "We looked at it as a challenge" said the spannerman, before asking "How the f*** did your husband get them on in the first place?"
Not long afterwards the bike was killed utterly to DETH after losing a fight with a black cab >:(
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Today I spent over an hour struggling - and failing - to fit two different tyres on a new Rigida Chrina (700c, 13mm width). Even the first bead was a struggle. The first tyre was a Continental Ultrasports (a tyre I don't particularly like, but I had a pair hanging round in the bike shed cupboard) - its twin had gone on an old Chrina ok, but on the new rim, it wouldn't go. Then I remembered I had a GP 4 Seasons folding. I thought it might be easier - but no difference. I suppose I should try a Michelin, on the grounds of nationality of millimetres, but I don't have one. So I took it back to the shop where I got the rim (and built the wheel) and they said they'd have a go, and they had experienced quality control problems with Rigida recently. So perhaps it's best to avoid this make for a while.
I've got so pissed off with the chrina rim I've got I've decided to retire it early - it's fairly concave but a rim gauge shows it's a long way off being worn out. I've broken tyre levers, and even resorted to using spoons on occasion. Getting a puncture when out is normally a case of a few minutes rest, with these it feels more like a disaster.
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Oh, and I see archetypes don't feature in this thread... I hope I've not made an expensive mistake.
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Well fuck rankings - I've discovered this evening that it's physically impossible to get conti gatorskins 25 mm onto an Exal LX17 rim.
I should have realise this when it was very difficult (required tyre levers) just to get the first side on before I even considered an inner tube >:(
I'm tempted to crank up the spoke tension just to shrink the fucker but the drive side are already at a high note ::-)
[edit] OK this morning I got it on with extreme measures. Going to take it on and off a few more times to see if it get easier - inner tube is well wrecked. ::-)
[edit2] - OK, since I had to rebuild the wheel because it nearly fell apart upon test ride I now have the spokes at a much higher tension. Not so bad to fit the tyre now - reduced diameter or the tyre has been on and off six or seven times now? Who knows - still a fair bitch to fit.
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No Durano?
( Not the Durano PLUS - which IS in the OP! )
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Rigida Chrina rims are notorious for being tight although they may just have a shallow well. Generally, the strategy for dealing with an impossible tyre/rim combo is, assuming your technique is flawless:
1. Lots of talc on the tube. It makes it less likely to get trapped between the tyre and rim, which increases friction so much that nothing will budge.
2. Thinner rim tape, and rim tape that fits properly. Hard plastic tape that sits diagonally because it's too wide for the well of the rim is hopeless (hello, Brompton).
3. Fit the tyre without a tube, remove it and repeat a few times, which sometimes stretches the bead a little. You can of course use tyre levers as there is no tube to puncture.
4. Fit the tyre and tube using tyre levers. You usually get away with it. The good news is that a kevlar-beaded tyre, in particular, becomes fairly easy to remove and refit after a couple of weeks sitting inflated on a rim. Vredestein Fortezzas were pigs when new but you didn't even need tools to remove them once they'd been on the bike for a month.
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I don't get the objection to using levers when fitting a tyre. It doesn't normally cause a problem and personally I don't know how else you do it. The only tyre I remember being able to fit without levers as a matter of course was IIRC a Michelin World Tour (which in other respects was not a particularly good tyre, apart from being very cheap).
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I don't get the objection to using levers when fitting a tyre. It doesn't normally cause a problem and personally I don't know how else you do it. The only tyre I remember being able to fit without levers as a matter of course was IIRC a Michelin World Tour (which in other respects was not a particularly good tyre, apart from being very cheap).
How you do it is with your hands, pushing up and over ...or with your feet! (https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.0) I agree there's no harm in using a lever (as long as you don't damage the inner tube, obviously), it's just that it's not necessary for fitting most tyres on most rims when you have the skillz.
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it's an additional faff to carry and use tyre levers, i much prefer rim-tyre combinations that can be fitted and removed with bare hands
eta: the word "removed" after biggsy's comment
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To be fair, it's much rarer to manage to remove tyres without levers than to fit them. I didn't need a lever to remove old Open Corsas from Open Pros, though.
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A physical effect that is forgotten by 99.999% of cyclists is ‘Heat expands things’.
The airing cupboard, home sauna or a low oven will expand a tyre to make fitting on a rim easier.
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You'll get about 1 mm of extra circumference per 40 degrees (wire bead). Since the tyre has to remain cool enough to handle & fit, you can get maybe an extra 0.75 mm over room temperature.
Do you reckon that's enough?
The coefficient of thermal expansion of Kevlar is negative, so folding tyre won't benefit
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If it don't fit at room temperature, throw it in the oven.
If it don't fit at 70 Deg C, throw it in the bin. ;D
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I have just fitted some Schwalbe One tyres to Exal XR2 rims, supposedly rims that make tyre-fitting hard. But it was fairly easy to both fit and remove them with my averagely strong hands, no tools needed.
Maybe the explanation is that the tyres were already used?
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I installed a pair of 28mm Schwalbe One Tubeless on Kinlin XC-279 rims at the weekend - temporary while I sort some different tyres for those wheels. One went on with hands only, the other needed a little nudge with a lever.
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A physical effect that is forgotten by 99.999% of cyclists is ‘Heat expands things’.
The airing cupboard, home sauna or a low oven will expand a tyre to make fitting on a rim easier.
I find that dragging our home sauna along, when I ride, negates any aerodynamic benefits of riding in the drops.
Kevlar-bead tyres, on tubeless-ready rims, are very difficult if you attempt to use a cloth rimstrip. Need something slippery, like a tubeless strip, or even duct tape, down in the "well".
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/mounting-tires-on-rims-with-deep-wells/ (https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/mounting-tires-on-rims-with-deep-wells/) offers some useful insight. Not all rims are equally easy to mount tyres onto.
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Having trouble fitting a tyre?? Here's some tips!
- Use the shoe trick --- (http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2485/4240407703_dd0fe8eaf8_m.jpg) (http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=28167.msg511847#msg511847)
- Get a bead jack (https://audaxing.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/img_0489.jpg)
- use straps and push the bead into the well of the rim -- see this video https://youtu.be/-XUFVrl0UT4
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Bead jack? Like a heavier-duty & more complicated version of the old VAR tool.
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You'll get about 1 mm of extra circumference per 40 degrees (wire bead). Since the tyre has to remain cool enough to handle & fit, you can get maybe an extra 0.75 mm over room temperature.
Do you reckon that's enough?
The coefficient of thermal expansion of Kevlar is negative, so folding tyre won't benefit
It may be that the increased sidewall flexibility of a warmer tyre is more important than any increase in circumference.
Working in the cold won't help manual dexterity which may be another contributory embuggerance when dealing with malign conjunctions of rim and tyre.
In my experience I have far fewer problems fitting racelite hard cases to Aksium rims in (what passes for) summer hereabouts than in winter.
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I think about half my tyre/rim combinations allow removal by hand. The easiest are all the kevlar-beaded tyres, which generally stretch a bit after a couple of weeks sitting inflated on a rim. The trick is to remember which bikes have the ones that can be ripped off with bare hands, so you don't bother carrying tyre levers on a ride when you don't have to.
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Well I've had a bit of a 'mare. 3 punctures in a week (two snakebites and a faulty valve) on a Michelin Pro 4/Campagnolo Neutron Ultra combo. All the reviews of the Neutrons say that tyres are tight on them, so Contis were out of the picture. I find Vittoria and Veloflex a little too fragile even though they are consistently the loosest on a rim (I remember fixing punctures without resorting to levers with Corsa/Open Pro as well). I might have to rethink this and go with Veloflex again.
New tyres were difficult (I sacrificed one inner tube and actually snapped a tyre lever this time). The ones that had been sitting on the rims since last summer were not appreciably easier to replace.
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Choosing Michelin tyres because Continentals would be too tight may not be productive. I’ve never met a Michelin that wasn’t a very tight fit. (But I like my tyres to be quite tight. Gives me a good feeling when descending.)
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Challenge Strada Bianca on a Stan's Crest (wide with a tight bead seat and only a shallow well in the centre of the rim) were fun. I had to fit them to a deep-welled clincher rim first, inflate to 120 psi and leave them for a week before I could fit them to the Crests. Even then it took me 45 minutes, two tyre levers and much swearing. After puncturing I decided to remove them and go back to Marathon Supremes instead. At least they go on to the Crests without needing to use tyre levers.
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I've just been trying to make a Challenge Strada Biancia go on a tubeless rim
It took 10 minutes just to get the first bead over!
I have given up after an hour. Got to a point where there is an inner tube stuffed in and the last bit of the second bead is not playing along. Part of the trouble is that the tyres are so loverly and flexible that they can wibble under the cable ties I tried to use to clamp them in place. Might well try what ChrisN is suggesting
Maybe that's why they are "Challenge" tyres ;D
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I think it's worth a try. After they'd been inflated on the standard rims, then removed from the Crests is disgust I did manage to get the Strada Biancas onto some tubeless Stans Alpha 340 rims without having to use tyre levers - these are narrower than the Crests and seem to have a deeper well.
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Well fuck rankings - I've discovered this evening that it's physically impossible to get conti gatorskins 25 mm onto an Exal LX17 rim.
I should have realise this when it was very difficult (required tyre levers) just to get the first side on before I even considered an inner tube >:(
I'm tempted to crank up the spoke tension just to shrink the fucker but the drive side are already at a high note ::-)
[edit] OK this morning I got it on with extreme measures. Going to take it on and off a few more times to see if it get easier - inner tube is well wrecked. ::-)
[edit2] - OK, since I had to rebuild the wheel because it nearly fell apart upon test ride I now have the spokes at a much higher tension. Not so bad to fit the tyre now - reduced diameter or the tyre has been on and off six or seven times now? Who knows - still a fair bitch to fit.
had exactly that problem, almost gave up with two blistered thumbs from the pressure/friction combination. Also went out and bought another set of levers after deciding that my number 2 set were no better than a ripe brie in the rigidity stakes.
Getting the buggers off again was no easier, much swearing involved.
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I've just taken delivery of some wheels from DCR wheels.
They have Kinlin XR-31T rims which are tubeless compatible, although I've fitted new Continental GP4000s II clincher tyres to them.
I was a little concerned that being a tubeless friendly rim it would make fitting the tyres particularly difficult but I didn't find this to be the case - although I did use a tyre lever to help a bit, I think I could have managed without it and I'm sure I don't have strong fingers.
Daves most important bit of advice was to get some Birzman tyre levers as they are wide and thin - he says he has never broken one either.
https://www.evanscycles.com/birzman-wedge-tyre-levers-set-of-3-EV189315 (https://www.evanscycles.com/birzman-wedge-tyre-levers-set-of-3-EV189315)
I found I was able to hook these on the rim and just lever the tyre on - little risk of pinching the tube as being thin, and the fact that they hook on right at the end of the lever meant that I could see what I was doing.
Much better than the Park levers I already had.
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I think it's worth a try. After they'd been inflated on the standard rims, then removed from the Crests is disgust I did manage to get the Strada Biancas onto some tubeless Stans Alpha 340 rims without having to use tyre levers - these are narrower than the Crests and seem to have a deeper well.
happy to say it worked.
A few days on some old Mavic SUP rims ( a kind of pre-Open Pro) and they went on. Used the Kool Stop tyre mate bead jack for the last bit
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Have just boiled the kettle after a mighty tussle with CONTINENTAL GATORSKINS onto OPEN PRO rims.
To accomplish it I needed 2 of these:
(http://g-search1.alicdn.com/img/bao/uploaded/i4/i4/TB16HwwPVXXXXbtaXXXXXXXXXXX_!!0-item_pic.jpg_210x210.jpg)
plus this:
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQBHbmxEiiiQot9edTnKT_JskQwu2-z69-28Fc96p57HQepf8L62Q)
and a single Park Tools tyre lever. The latter is very tough but may not be the best shape.
I have no idea how I can carry that lot in the toolkit.
Contrast - I found Marathon pluses easier but I can't recall what the rims were.
I don't suffer from Trump hands either.
The puncture was my fault because I'd used a 28-47 tube with a 25 tyre and it happened where the oversized tube creased. It was a long time coming tho' and I guess I used the tube because it was all I had at the roadside.
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Curious. My Enigma has Open Pro rims & Gatorskins, & I've never had a problem with them. I'm not one of those super-changers who can get any tyre on & off with ease, either: exactly the opposite. Ease of changing is a very big factor in my choice of both tyres & rims, & one of the things I like about both the Open Pros & Gatorskins is that in my experience they're not difficult.
Gatorskins are nowhere near as easy as Paselas, mind you.
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I've done battle with Open Pros and Gatorskins in the past with relative success. Rigida Chrinas mind are utter bastards.
I use two VAR (http://www.bikeplus.co.uk/p/34518/Var-Tyre-Lever?kw=&fl=1000&ci=54665543321&network=pla&gclid=CI6E2d2y3tMCFW617QodMXgOxg) levers now. Each comes with a small lever tucked inside the bigger lever. I just take two of the bigger outer levers and leave the smallies in my toolbox.
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Tyres vary, even if they are the same model.
I once tried to replace a 28mm GP4Seasons that had been a no tyre levers required tyre with a new one of the same, and failed after about an hour and a half of struggle, including the VAR lever and steel levers (Open Pro).
I eventually got it onto a different wheel, and left it stretching at 160 psi until the alternative new tyre had worn out, by which time it was a more normal version of tight - i.e. the VAR worked, and got taken on rides.
Gatorskins are nowhere near as easy as Paselas, mind you.
There is such a thing as too easy. I've seen a Pasela blow off the rim mid ride, half way down a hill
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I have a VAR lever, & my wife has another. The big lever's very good for getting difficult tyres back on.
I find the small lever can lift the edge of a tight tyre enough to get a standard lever underneath so I can then hook that onto a spoke, then repeat with the small VAR lever & a second standard lever. It then gets easier.
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Curious. My Enigma has Open Pro rims, & Gatorskins, & I've never had a problem with them. I#m not one of those super-changers who can get any tyre on & off with ease, either: exactly the opposite. Ease of changing is a very big factor in my choice of both tyres & rims, & one of the things I like about both the Open Pros & Gatorskins is that in my experience they're not difficult.
Gatorskins are nowhere near as easy as Paselas, mind you.
Yes that is curious. I am thinking I may have messed up somewhere in my haste!
I am going to take it off and retry. Worrying to have a wheel you can't fix.
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Copied from the wrong thread -
Schwalbe Durano plus 700c x 25:
Folding version onto Rigida Chrina was easy.
Wired version onto Open Pro was even easier. :thumbsup:
Rigida Flyer/Conti Ultra Sport. Absolute bastard!
Hands still hurting 4 hours later...
My guess is that the Ultra Sport is to blame. My experience of the Rigida (or Ryde) Flyer is that it's very easy to get tyres on & off. Mrs B has one on her front wheel.
Schwalbe Marathon Racer on DRC ST19 - very easy indeed, pull off without tyre levers.
I can't rate them per se other than say 'bloody impossible to get them off' but 25mm steel-beaded Gatorskins on a Mavic MA40 required a tyrejack to get them on and, when I broke the same trying to get them off and no amount of tyre levers (plastic and metal) were ever going to work, I resorted to a pair cutters and a Stanley knife to cut the b@stards off - I'll never touch them again.
Panaracer Pasela's (25 and 28mm) work like a charm and can be put on by hand and without levers and only require one to remove them.
Mrs B's Pasela 28s are a doddle to put on & take off.
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Continental GP 4 Seasons 28mm on Chrina: first time I've broken a tyre lever this century! :o
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Vittoria Zaffiro wire bead onto Campagnolo Zonda's .....Maybe it's me but I found these a bo*&^%ks altogether..... the tyres mind, not the wheels..........
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Fitted a pair of 700 x 28 Marathon Plus to Mavic A719 wheels today - very tight and the usual thumbs method didn't work.
Resorted to a toe-clip strap on one side of the tyre when almost fitted and a BBB "tyre jack" like this
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQsYbtTHNAsUM1dtb72VCiAKmKYvGgQLm_exveSvVcS38bx-UTn)
- worked a treat.
I was going to try the VAR lever but couldn't find it (did later in the touring bike saddlebag)
Rob
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Some people on LEL who wanted to put an inner tube into a tubeless tyre on a tubeless rim found it almost impossible
All this moaning (in this thread) about Open Pros or Chrina Ridga is so much fluff. Tubeless rims are a new category of difficult
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So I've heard, which is why I'm not doing road tubeless.
I'd rather have a minor 15 minute inconvenience 4 or 5 times a year than have a major difficulty maybe once every other year, when the sealant couldn't cope.
In general, never use a tyre that you didn't fit using the tools that you will have with you on a ride.
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So I've heard, which is why I'm not doing road tubeless.
I'd rather have a minor 15 minute inconvenience 4 or 5 times a year than have a major difficulty maybe once every other year, when the sealant couldn't cope.
In general, never use a tyre that you didn't fit using the tools that you will have with you on a ride.
quite, and that's why I carry a bead jack
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Has anyone done a SCIENTIFIC* comparison between the old Open Pro and new?
(I should say that I have a suspicion the new version is a little tighter fit, so I might try to source some NOS rims for upcoming builds ... )
*ideally with the same tyre, and the same rim-tape on both wheels!!!
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In the red corner, we have the tubeless ready Vittoria Terreno G+ Dry 31mm https://www.vittoria.com/us/terreno-dry-cx-and-gravel.html
In the blue corner, we have the Mavic Allroad https://shop.mavic.com/en-gb/allroad-rr0994.html#1028=3283 , built using ETRTO size: 622x23TC ROAD rims and taped up by the skilled workmen in Mavic's Romanian factory.
Ding ding ding
It was undeniably a bit of work but I didn't have to resort to levers. I *did* use saliva to help lubricate the last bit of bead, might have managed without it but I didn't see the harm (and couldn't be bothered to go and get the fairy liquid out). Mitts were required.
The good news is that the seal was so tight, to get the tubeless magic going I didn't have to use an airshot, soapy water, or even to remove the valve core. Just pumped them up and ping.
I have recently purchased a gummy worm type tubeless repair kit to hopefully save me from the pain of doing the remove-fit tube - remount procedure on the roadside.
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Has anyone done a SCIENTIFIC* comparison between the old Open Pro and new?
(I should say that I have a suspicion the new version is a little tighter fit, so I might try to source some NOS rims for upcoming builds ... )
*ideally with the same tyre, and the same rim-tape on both wheels!!!
put it this way, I think that to convert an old open pro (open pro C) to tubeless would require many layers of tape.
cheers
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Everything I've read - which is entirely internet pundits, not Mavic engineers! - suggests* that the "Open Pro C" is a new evolution of the standard (clincher) "open Pro" i.e. not just a re-badging exercise; but I've been unable to find out what has changed.
I can imagine that the changes are very very small, but I'm pretty convinced that even small changes to a rim (e.g. within a production run!) can have a significant effect on tyre fitting.
*and I do mean suggests. Noone has explicitly stated it!