Difficulty in installing tyres? Chat

[caerau]

Well fuck rankings - I've discovered this evening that it's physically impossible to get conti gatorskins 25 mm  onto an Exal LX17 rim.


I should have realise this when it was very difficult (required tyre levers) just to get the first side on before I even considered an inner tube 


I'm tempted to crank up the spoke tension just to shrink the fucker but the drive side are already at a high note   


[edit] OK this morning I got it on with extreme measures.  Going to take it on and off a few more times to see if it get easier - inner tube is well wrecked. 



[edit2] - OK, since I had to rebuild the wheel because it nearly fell apart upon test ride I now have the spokes at a much higher tension.  Not so bad to fit the tyre now - reduced diameter or the tyre has been on and off six or seven times now?  Who knows - still a fair bitch to fit.

[mattc]

No Durano?

( Not the Durano PLUS - which IS in the OP! )

[rogerzilla]

Rigida Chrina rims are notorious for being tight although they may just have a shallow well.  Generally, the strategy for dealing with an impossible tyre/rim combo is, assuming your technique is flawless:

1. Lots of talc on the tube.  It makes it less likely to get trapped between the tyre and rim, which increases friction so much that nothing will budge.
2. Thinner rim tape, and rim tape that fits properly.  Hard plastic tape that sits diagonally because it's too wide for the well of the rim is hopeless (hello, Brompton).
3. Fit the tyre without a tube, remove it and repeat a few times, which sometimes stretches the bead a little.  You can of course use tyre levers as there is no tube to puncture.
4. Fit the tyre and tube using tyre levers.  You usually get away with it.  The good news is that a kevlar-beaded tyre, in particular, becomes fairly easy to remove and refit after a couple of weeks sitting inflated on a rim.  Vredestein Fortezzas were pigs when new but you didn't even need tools to remove them once they'd been on the bike for a month.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't get the objection to using levers when fitting a tyre. It doesn't normally cause a problem and personally I don't know how else you do it. The only tyre I remember being able to fit without levers as a matter of course was IIRC a Michelin World Tour (which in other respects was not a particularly good tyre, apart from being very cheap).

[Biggsy]

I don't get the objection to using levers when fitting a tyre. It doesn't normally cause a problem and personally I don't know how else you do it. The only tyre I remember being able to fit without levers as a matter of course was IIRC a Michelin World Tour (which in other respects was not a particularly good tyre, apart from being very cheap).

How you do it is with your hands, pushing up and over ...or with your feet!  I agree there's no harm in using a lever (as long as you don't damage the inner tube, obviously), it's just that it's not necessary for fitting most tyres on most rims when you have the skillz.

[zigzag]

it's an additional faff to carry and use tyre levers, i much prefer rim-tyre combinations that can be fitted and removed with bare hands

eta: the word "removed" after biggsy's comment

[Biggsy]

To be fair, it's much rarer to manage to remove tyres without levers than to fit them.  I didn't need a lever to remove old Open Corsas from Open Pros, though.

[Ningishzidda]

A physical effect that is forgotten by 99.999% of cyclists is ‘Heat expands things’.

The airing cupboard, home sauna or a low oven will expand a tyre to make fitting on a rim easier.

[andrew_s]

You'll get about 1 mm of extra circumference per 40 degrees (wire bead). Since the tyre has to remain cool enough to handle & fit, you can get maybe an extra 0.75 mm over room temperature.
Do you reckon that's enough?


The coefficient of thermal expansion of Kevlar is negative, so folding tyre won't benefit

[Ningishzidda]

If it don't fit at room temperature, throw it in the oven.
If it don't fit at 70 Deg C, throw it in the bin. 

[Samuel D]

I have just fitted some Schwalbe One tyres to Exal XR2 rims, supposedly rims that make tyre-fitting hard. But it was fairly easy to both fit and remove them with my averagely strong hands, no tools needed.

Maybe the explanation is that the tyres were already used?

[sojournermike]

I installed a pair of 28mm Schwalbe One Tubeless on Kinlin XC-279 rims at the weekend - temporary while I sort some different tyres for those wheels. One went on with hands only, the other needed a little nudge with a lever.

[Moleman76]

A physical effect that is forgotten by 99.999% of cyclists is ‘Heat expands things’.
The airing cupboard, home sauna or a low oven will expand a tyre to make fitting on a rim easier.

I find that dragging our home sauna along, when I ride, negates any aerodynamic benefits of riding in the drops.

Kevlar-bead tyres, on tubeless-ready rims, are very difficult if you attempt to use a cloth rimstrip.  Need something slippery, like a tubeless strip, or even duct tape, down in the "well".

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/05/24/mounting-tires-on-rims-with-deep-wells/  offers some useful insight.  Not all rims are equally easy to mount tyres onto.

[vorsprung]

Having trouble fitting a tyre??  Here's some tips!

• Use the shoe trick ---
  
• Get a bead jack 
  
• use straps and push the bead into the well of the rim -- see this video https://youtu.be/-XUFVrl0UT4

[Bledlow]

Bead jack? Like a heavier-duty & more complicated version of the old VAR tool.

[TheLurker]

You'll get about 1 mm of extra circumference per 40 degrees (wire bead). Since the tyre has to remain cool enough to handle & fit, you can get maybe an extra 0.75 mm over room temperature.
Do you reckon that's enough?

The coefficient of thermal expansion of Kevlar is negative, so folding tyre won't benefit

It may be that the increased sidewall flexibility of a warmer tyre is more important than any increase in circumference.

Working in the cold won't help manual dexterity which may be another contributory embuggerance when dealing with malign conjunctions of rim and tyre.

In my experience I have far fewer problems fitting racelite hard cases to Aksium rims in (what passes for) summer hereabouts than in winter.

[rogerzilla]

I think about half my tyre/rim combinations allow removal by hand.  The easiest are all the kevlar-beaded tyres, which generally stretch a bit after a couple of weeks sitting inflated on a rim.  The trick is to remember which bikes have the ones that can be ripped off with bare hands, so you don't bother carrying tyre levers on a ride when you don't have to.

[Rhys W]

Well I've had a bit of a 'mare. 3 punctures in a week (two snakebites and a faulty valve) on a Michelin Pro 4/Campagnolo Neutron Ultra combo. All the reviews of the Neutrons say that tyres are tight on them, so Contis were out of the picture. I find Vittoria and Veloflex a little too fragile even though they are consistently the loosest on a rim (I remember fixing punctures without resorting to levers with Corsa/Open Pro as well). I might have to rethink this and go with Veloflex again.

New tyres were difficult (I sacrificed one inner tube and actually snapped a tyre lever this time). The ones that had been sitting on the rims since last summer were not appreciably easier to replace.

[Samuel D]

Choosing Michelin tyres because Continentals would be too tight may not be productive. I’ve never met a Michelin that wasn’t a very tight fit. (But I like my tyres to be quite tight. Gives me a good feeling when descending.)

[Chris N]

Challenge Strada Bianca on a Stan's Crest (wide with a tight bead seat and only a shallow well in the centre of the rim) were fun.  I had to fit them to a deep-welled clincher rim first, inflate to 120 psi and leave them for a week before I could fit them to the Crests.  Even then it took me 45 minutes, two tyre levers and much swearing.  After puncturing I decided to remove them and go back to Marathon Supremes instead.  At least they go on to the Crests without needing to use tyre levers.

[vorsprung]

I've just been trying to make a Challenge Strada Biancia go on a tubeless rim

It took 10 minutes just to get the first bead over!

I have given up after an hour.   Got to a point where there is an inner tube stuffed in and the last bit of the second bead is not playing along.  Part of the trouble is that the tyres are so loverly and flexible that they can wibble under the cable ties I tried to use to clamp them in place. Might well try what ChrisN is suggesting

Maybe that's why they are "Challenge" tyres 

[Chris N]

I think it's worth a try.  After they'd been inflated on the standard rims, then removed from the Crests is disgust I did manage to get the Strada Biancas onto some tubeless Stans Alpha 340 rims without having to use tyre levers - these are narrower than the Crests and seem to have a deeper well.

[ElyDave]

Well fuck rankings - I've discovered this evening that it's physically impossible to get conti gatorskins 25 mm  onto an Exal LX17 rim.


I should have realise this when it was very difficult (required tyre levers) just to get the first side on before I even considered an inner tube 


I'm tempted to crank up the spoke tension just to shrink the fucker but the drive side are already at a high note   


[edit] OK this morning I got it on with extreme measures.  Going to take it on and off a few more times to see if it get easier - inner tube is well wrecked. 



[edit2] - OK, since I had to rebuild the wheel because it nearly fell apart upon test ride I now have the spokes at a much higher tension.  Not so bad to fit the tyre now - reduced diameter or the tyre has been on and off six or seven times now?  Who knows - still a fair bitch to fit.

had exactly that problem, almost gave up with two blistered thumbs from the pressure/friction combination. Also went out and bought another set of levers after deciding that my number 2 set were no better than a ripe brie in the rigidity stakes.

Getting the buggers off again was no easier, much swearing involved.

[wajcgac]

I've just taken delivery of some wheels from DCR wheels.

They have Kinlin XR-31T rims which are tubeless compatible, although I've fitted new Continental GP4000s II clincher tyres to them.

I was a little concerned that being a tubeless friendly rim it would make fitting the tyres particularly difficult but I didn't find this to be the case - although I did use a tyre lever to help a bit, I think I could have managed without it and I'm sure I don't have strong fingers.

Daves most important bit of advice was to get some Birzman tyre levers as they are wide and thin - he says he has never broken one either.

https://www.evanscycles.com/birzman-wedge-tyre-levers-set-of-3-EV189315

I found I was able to hook these on the rim and just lever the tyre on - little risk of pinching the tube as being thin, and the fact that they hook on right at the end of the lever meant that I could see what I was doing.

Much better than the Park levers I already had.

[vorsprung]

I think it's worth a try.  After they'd been inflated on the standard rims, then removed from the Crests is disgust I did manage to get the Strada Biancas onto some tubeless Stans Alpha 340 rims without having to use tyre levers - these are narrower than the Crests and seem to have a deeper well.

happy to say it worked.
A few days on some old Mavic SUP rims ( a kind of pre-Open Pro) and they went on.  Used the Kool Stop tyre mate bead jack for the last bit