Cycle cadence sensor for running?

[Kim]

Does anyone happen to know what an accelerometer-based cadence sensor makes of walking/running when attached to your shoe?

I've got a Wahoo RPM that I can experiment with when it's not 11pm and icy, but it's the sort of thing someone here might have tried...

(Asking for a friend who uses a Racerunner - think upright trike without a drivetrain.  A cycle computer would be a better fit than whatever stuff it is the runnists use for speed and navigation, and I expect that foot-based running sensors won't talk to cycle computers and vice-versa.)

[quixoticgeek]

Does anyone happen to know what an accelerometer-based cadence sensor makes of walking/running when attached to your shoe?

I've got a Wahoo RPM that I can experiment with when it's not 11pm and icy, but it's the sort of thing someone here might have tried...

(Asking for a friend who uses a Racerunner - think upright trike without a drivetrain.  A cycle computer would be a better fit than whatever stuff it is the runnists use for speed and navigation, and I expect that foot-based running sensors won't talk to cycle computers.)

The wahoo cadence sensor is designed to work in this way. You can attach it to the shoe just fine. I even know a cyclist who attaches it to their shoe anyway, so they can swap between bikes.

But yep, works just fine for running.

J

[Kim]

Cool.  I know it works on your shoe (I tried this to see if it would smooth the noise caused by the boom of the Baron amplifying the vibration from shitty road surfaces, to no effect^[1]), but wasn't sure if it needed a circular pedalling motion.  I've not tried it on foot, for Rule 42 reasons.


_{[1] However, a firmware upgrade greatly improved this.}

[PaulF]

Does anyone happen to know what an accelerometer-based cadence sensor makes of walking/running when attached to your shoe?

I've got a Wahoo RPM that I can experiment with when it's not 11pm and icy, but it's the sort of thing someone here might have tried...

(Asking for a friend who uses a Racerunner - think upright trike without a drivetrain.  A cycle computer would be a better fit than whatever stuff it is the runnists use for speed and navigation, and I expect that foot-based running sensors won't talk to cycle computers.)

The wahoo cadence sensor is designed to work in this way. You can attach it to the shoe just fine. I even know a cyclist who attaches it to their shoe anyway, so they can swap between bikes.

But yep, works just fine for running.

J

My experience of the Wahoo cadence sensor was different; it works fine as a cadence sensor attached to a shoe but not so well as a step counter when I tried it for running.

[citoyen]

I expect that foot-based running sensors won't talk to cycle computers and vice-versa.

I can pair a bike speed/cadence sensor to my Forerunner, so maybe running sensor to bike computer is worth trying?

[Davef]

Does anyone happen to know what an accelerometer-based cadence sensor makes of walking/running when attached to your shoe?

I've got a Wahoo RPM that I can experiment with when it's not 11pm and icy, but it's the sort of thing someone here might have tried...

(Asking for a friend who uses a Racerunner - think upright trike without a drivetrain.  A cycle computer would be a better fit than whatever stuff it is the runnists use for speed and navigation, and I expect that foot-based running sensors won't talk to cycle computers.)

The wahoo cadence sensor is designed to work in this way. You can attach it to the shoe just fine. I even know a cyclist who attaches it to their shoe anyway, so they can swap between bikes.

But yep, works just fine for running.

J

It would have to be quite clever to understand the different acceleration profiles between running and cycling. Attaching it to a foot or a pedal when cycling is pretty much the same thing but running is a very different motion from cycling. The hardware is the same as it is for swimming. I am always impressed my watch can distinguish between the generally flailing of arms and the turning round at the end of a length.

[L CC]

My experience of the Wahoo cadence sensor was different; it works fine as a cadence sensor attached to a shoe but not so well as a step counter when I tried it for running.

I don't run, but this was my walking experience.

Aren't the run pods pretty cheap anyway?

Hmm Dr Google tells me ~£50-£70.

[Kim]

My experience of the Wahoo cadence sensor was different; it works fine as a cadence sensor attached to a shoe but not so well as a step counter when I tried it for running.

I don't run, but this was my walking experience.

Aren't the run pods pretty cheap anyway?

Hmm Dr Google tells me ~£50-£70.

It's not about cheap, it's about feeding step cadence into a cycling-oriented computer, for a step-propelled cycle.

I'm assuming that an ANT+ step sensor for running identifies itself as a completely different badger to an ANT+ cycling cadence sensor, so a typical Garmin Edge or whatever wouldn't be able to make use of it?

[Davef]

Why not use a rotating bike cadence sensor on the rotating part ?

[Davef]

However any device that uses ant+ should pair and display on a garmin bike computer, so a foot pod should too.

[Davef]

You could find out if you have a laptop and an ant+ dongle and some spare time. You can install the ant simulator and set it to pretend to be a foot pod and pair it with garmin bike computer and see what happens.

If I can find my dongle I might try this later on.

[Kim]

I've just tried running with my Wahoo RPM cadence sensor attached to my shoe.  It kinda-sorta works, in that it gives a sensible reading about 2/3 of the time, when it's not reading far too high or zero.  Much like it does when riding over serious pavé on an unsuspended low-racer.

Not good enough that I'd recommend buying one on that basis.

[Kim]

Why not use a rotating bike cadence sensor on the rotating part ?

Because unlike a pedal cycle or elliptigo, there is no part of a racerunner that rotates in time with your feet.

Speed sensor on the wheels, sure, no problem.  But that isn't cadence.

[Davef]

Why not use a rotating bike cadence sensor on the rotating part ?

Because unlike a pedal cycle or elliptigo, there is no part of a racerunner that rotates in time with your feet.

Speed sensor on the wheels, sure, no problem.  But that isn't cadence.

Ah I have googled and now know what a race runner is.

I have found my ant+ dongle and run the ant simulator software. I can’t get my 1030 to pair with a simulated foot pod thing. I thought it would under “other”. It will pair with a simulated power meter.

[L CC]

I don't see why a bike computer wouldn't see a footpod, but I haven't got one to try. I do have teammate with one I could ask?
I'd also guess that unless your racerunning friend is doing super-long distances and meet battery life constraints an answer might be a phone app with a pod?

[Kim]

Why not use a rotating bike cadence sensor on the rotating part ?

Because unlike a pedal cycle or elliptigo, there is no part of a racerunner that rotates in time with your feet.

Speed sensor on the wheels, sure, no problem.  But that isn't cadence.

Ah I have googled and now know what a race runner is.

I did link to the Wikipedia page about them in the OP...

(As an aside, racerunner problems do a great job of making recumbent cycle problems seem mainstream.  Suitable clothing, etc.)

I have found my ant+ dongle and run the ant simulator software. I can’t get my 1030 to pair with a simulated foot pod thing. I thought it would under “other”. It will pair with a simulated power meter.

Bah.


I went looking for the relevant developer docs, but they required a login.  Google turned up some people's code fragments suggesting that they were different IDs.


Meanwhile I found:

https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/01/garmin-ant-foot-pods-everything-you.html

Q: Does the Garmin Edge series support the foot pod?
A: No, none of the Garmin Edge cycling devices allow use of the foot pod, it’s considered a different ANT+ device profile and isn’t one you can pair to the Edge devices.  Though I should note this is actually a really common request from cyclists that occasionally run.  Also of note is that the Edge series doesn’t display pace in Minutes/Mile, but rather only MPH (speed).  Again, another highly requested feature from occasional runners that are primarily cyclists.

Which would seem to confirm it.

[Cudzoziemiec]

If your friend wants to check their cadence on the racerunner, why do they need a cycling device? Wouldn't a running device be more appropriate? It doesn't seem like there's a need to check wheel revs?

[Kim]

I don't see why a bike computer wouldn't see a footpod, but I haven't got one to try.

Because why sell one device when you can flip a couple of bits and sell two...

I expect there are running devices that can read cycle sensors for triathlon purposes, but I'd expect them to assume you're either running or cycling, not doing a niche combination of the two.

I'd also guess that unless your racerunning friend is doing super-long distances and meet battery life constraints an answer might be a phone app with a pod?

Yeah, that might be a reasonable solution.

If your friend wants to check their cadence on the racerunner, why do they need a cycling device? Wouldn't a running device be more appropriate? It doesn't seem like there's a need to check wheel revs?

She's been using an Apple watch, but you can't measure steps from the wrist on a racerunner, because it moves like a cycle, and the Apple watch doesn't seem to speak to foot pods.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Put the Apple watch on her ankle? (Don't be silly )

[L CC]

My teammate is a triathlete. I think she uses one of those enormous sports watches (she's taller and younger than me so can probably both see it and it be smaller than her hand).

[L CC]

If your friend wants to check their cadence on the racerunner, why do they need a cycling device? Wouldn't a running device be more appropriate? It doesn't seem like there's a need to check wheel revs?

I used to keep my Fitbit One in my sock, but I'm not sure they give you a 'live' enough reading.

[Davef]

I just need to find my garmin 935 and the charging cable and I will be able to tell you. You can get a handlebar mount for it too.

That said, I have been thinking, why ? Essentially it is running. Nobody I know is really that interested in cadence when running. I sometimes look at it afterwards but it just doesn’t seem to vary much not like cycling where you have gears. What cycle specific sensors are you going to have ? Power is out. You can get speed from gps. Heart rate is common to both.

[Davef]

Oh my word. I have just discovered extended display mode. I can get my garmin edge to mirror the display of my triathlon watch.

[fuaran]

You can check the Ant+ directory for what is compatible. Though it is not always accurate. https://www.thisisant.com/directory/
Seems none of the Edge models support footpods anyway.
Apparently the Etrex 30x does?

Or maybe you could make a Connect IQ app?
This one for foot pod pace says it works with Edge models. So that shows it is possible for them to connect. https://apps.garmin.com/en-US/apps/7e2039a0-3b31-4f34-8437-d33bacac15f2

[Davef]

I have finished playing around and ..l

I can use the ant simulator to simulate a footpod. It won’t pair with edge 1030. The iq app mentioned above does not appear to work with the simulator (but might with a real device unpaired - the simulator insists on pairing and you can’t pair a footpod with the edge).

The simulator footpod will connect to my 735 watch. I don’t believe you could also have a bike speed sensor showing as the footpod provides both speed and cadence and the speed seems to trump bike speed sensor.

The extended display mode does allow the edge to show the data from the footpod - but this requires a watch too!.

I would try a real footpod with the iq app mentioned above.

Now I want a footpod as it is a gap in my gadget collection! If I succumb I will experiment.