Author Topic: New PC system box  (Read 1524 times)

New PC system box
« on: 08 May, 2018, 07:18:33 pm »
I'm looking for a new PC for my desktop.  It needs to have the possibility of upgrading in three years without replacing the mainboard, the ability to add more RAM in the future and a separate replaceable graphics card.

I'll probably want to make it silent by adding a fuck off neat sink that doesn't need a fan.

I already know about QuietPC but they do seem a tad pricey for something mid range in i5 quad core spec with 16gb ram and 500gb SSD.  Any pointers for bargains elsewhere would be appreciated.

I am not a power user but do use Netflix and youtube for video streaming as well as the usual office type processing and email.

Suggestions welcome but please note that I am not going Apple, nor am I going for a laptop or chromebook.   

Thanks.       

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #1 on: 08 May, 2018, 08:33:28 pm »
An AMD Ryzen processor/ mb combination would be a strong contender.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #2 on: 08 May, 2018, 09:21:44 pm »
Are they as reliable as Intel these days?  The last time I used AMD was a number of years ago but I found that they were more quirky and unreliable than AMD with system crashes where the Intel would just keep purring along.


Re: New PC system box
« Reply #3 on: 09 May, 2018, 03:35:47 pm »
My best buy was a soundproof case, a Nanoxia but there's plenty of choice.  You need the space and they're pricey compared to the usual, but it's a one off purchase, mine's had several component changes over the years.  The three 140mm fans hardly move, the heatsink has a slow moving fan, HDDs are SS and the PSU fanless, apart from the LED on the button I can't tell if it's on.
It's a while since I bought a CPU, when I last did the recommendation was for an Intel also designed for laptops, the idea that they run cooler.  I've under clocked mine, again cooler = quieter.  I'm not a heavy user, any current CPU would be more than adequate for my needs, my most intensive use is lightroom which benefits from memory rather than processor capability.  I don't think your use is going to require anything cutting edge, for streaming it's usually the connection speed rather than the processing power that's the limiting factor. 
Current set up hasn't changed in about six years and won't unless there's a problem,  at which time I'll accept that things will have moved on and expect to replace at least MB and CPU, possibly heatsink and memory as well, it would still have been worth it.
Quiet PC do seem a bit pricey for a complete build, I've used them for components and they certainly know their stuff.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #4 on: 09 May, 2018, 04:09:57 pm »
I have been considering speccing a QUietPC and then sourcing the parts myself for a self-build.  I used to build pc's back in the eighties and nineties so although there will be many changes the principles will remain the same.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #5 on: 10 May, 2018, 02:59:00 am »
I have been considering speccing a QUietPC and then sourcing the parts myself for a self-build.
That's pretty much what I did, though a fair bit of the specialised stuff ended up coming from them anyway. 
Quote
I used to build pc's back in the eighties and nineties so although there will be many changes the principles will remain the same.
Another advantage of a big soundproof case, it's such a joy to work with all that space and have the cabling tucked away under the board.

Woofage

  • Tofu-eating Wokerati
  • Ain't no hooves on my bike.
Re: New PC system box
« Reply #6 on: 10 May, 2018, 08:12:25 am »
The lad has a bog standard case (well, you can see through the side) but he installed a water cooling thing for the CPU to reduce noise. I expect one of those plus a fanless graphics card will make it pretty quiet.
Pen Pusher

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #7 on: 10 May, 2018, 08:28:38 am »
I am a fan (no pun intended) of the completely fanless passive cooling rigs that QuietPC build.  mllePB has one from two or three years back and it's incredibly silent and just works.   I don't trust myself to install something with liquid cooling and fans always end up noisy even if quiet at the outset.

I'm going to spec a QuietPC, print off the spec, then do some shopping.  If the saving is not significant I'll just go for the build.

DaveJ

  • Happy days
Re: New PC system box
« Reply #8 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:31:04 am »
The "Still upgradeable in three years time" might be a bit of an ask.

Disks are moving from 2.5" sata, but M.2 seems to be a movable feast at the moment (sata? PCIe? NVMe?).  What will that look like in three years time?  I would think that sata will be around for years, but in three years time the performance penalty for using it will be even larger than it is at the moment.
 
DDR5 is on the way, but I'd expect that DDR4 will still be available.  As for CPU sockets.....

It depends what you might intend to upgrade.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: New PC system box
« Reply #9 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:45:35 am »
If you want to make it really quiet, best to start with lower power components. Then less cooling required. eg look at laptop CPUs. Or consider underclocking it a bit, it will still be fast enough for most use.
And integrated graphics should be lower power, and still fine for everything, except gaming.

AMD are just as reliable as Intel nowadays. Or maybe even more reliable, as it avoids the problems with Meltdown etc.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #10 on: 10 May, 2018, 11:55:10 am »
There are pretty good graphics cards with passive cooling these days as well. Fine for anything but gaming.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #11 on: 10 May, 2018, 07:28:51 pm »
The "Still upgradeable in three years time" might be a bit of an ask.

Disks are moving from 2.5" sata, but M.2 seems to be a movable feast at the moment (sata? PCIe? NVMe?).  What will that look like in three years time?  I would think that sata will be around for years, but in three years time the performance penalty for using it will be even larger than it is at the moment.
 
DDR5 is on the way, but I'd expect that DDR4 will still be available.  As for CPU sockets.....

It depends what you might intend to upgrade.

The most likely component upgrades are more storage, more ram and a more powerful CPU in that order.  mllePB's PC has just received a ram upgrade and will be getting a larger SSD.  I'm looking at starting at the current ram capacity that she now has and also the SSD capacity that I am about to upgrade her machine to.  I have not yet looked at her mainboard to determine whether her CPU can be upgraded but her existing Intel I5 quad core seems to be coping quite well.

I think I'll look at network drives and offsite storage in future rather than keep adding disk capacity at home.  Perhaps an arrangement with family members to keep remote network accessible storage at each other's homes.

Afasoas

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #12 on: 10 May, 2018, 08:26:17 pm »
Hi.

If you build a PC based around an i5 and an SSD, I suspect it will still be powerful enough for your needs in 10 years time.
You don't need to worry about a separate graphics card unless you are doing a lot of picture editing, video rendering or gaming. ( - see later remarks)
Quiet cases tend to be quiet expensive and unless you are building a thread ripper, possibly not worth the expense.

I wouldn't recommend AMD. Especially if you want a quiet machine. Some of the zen+ Ryzens are't proving unstable with default balanced power usage configurations that most motherboards and Windows use by default.

This would be my budget recommendation for a quiet PC: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/dp6Bjy

I've opted for a 250GB SSD - that should be ample for a Windows install and quite a number of applications
1TB HDD for storing your music, video and photos as it's more storage at less cost.

Switching out the 250GB SSD and 1TB HDD for a 500GB SSD would work out a hair more expensive. And although it would ensure you don't chattering hard drive to contend with (when it's spun up), overall it amounts to less storage for your buck. You could dampen much of the chatter from the HDD by literally suspending it on some elastic in that cases 5 1/4" optical drive bay. Unless you want to add a DVD/Blu-ray, in which case a different case might be preferable.

I haven't included a DVD/Blu-ray drive - probably an oversight on my part as I very seldomly use mine. In fact, in my desktop they are unplugged as to reduce it's energy consumption.

The i5-7500 has 65W TDP which isn't too shabby power/performance wise. You could switch it out for a 35W TDP i5-7500T which is underclocked. I doubt you would notice the difference in performance and it may make the PC run cooler and thus quieter. But it will set you back an extra £60. I would probably pony up for it if I was building the machine for myself, in my drive for an energy efficient household.

The case is very much a budget item. For the money they are excellent value and although they feel a bit flimsy, there aren't any sharp edges or massive impracticalities when assembling. I've built 40 or so PCs using the same case. It will seat 3 120mm RPM fans (more slow spinning fans is better if you want a quiet build). Remove the included fan and put it in the spares box, as it will be noisier and less long-lived then the Noctuas.

The fan configuration in the case is 2 inlet and 1 exhaust, which will make for positive air pressure in the case. This is good for keeping the dust down (negative pressure tends to draw more dust in) but is (slightly) less efficient. When the machine is under load, the PSU fan will spin up and probably bring the pressure down a little bit. You may want to opt for an alternative case that supports 4 fans (again, more slow fans = better for a cool/quiet build). That will bump the cost up slightly and, depending on the extremes of ambient temperature/workload on the machine, could prove to be unnecessary. If you want to err on the side of caution and try a different case/additional fan, let me know and I'll make a recommendation.

The Noctua CPU cooler and fans will make the PC whisper quiet. In fact, I originally built my server(s) with a similar cooling setup (before they were re-built into a rack cases and re-located to the garage) and the only thing that was just audilbe was the PSU fan when I'd got all of the hard disk drives spun up. When I rebuilt the servers into their rack cases, I had to switch the fans out and I've kept them ready for the day I build a silent desktop (which I can't afford/justify it yet).

You may want to add a passively cooled graphics card but:
 (1) It will generate heat and the fans will have to work harder to expel it
 (2) Some of the low-end/cheaper ones are no better than the on-chip Intel GPUs
 (3) If you find you need one, you can always add it later

If you want to connect the PC via Wi-Fi, there is a variation of the selected Gigabyte motherboard with an integrated Wi-Fi adapter. Or you can add a PCI-E Wi-Fi adapter for not much.

In terms of longevity, my i7-3770 is now 6 years old and now I'm not running batches of 12-24 photos through sets of photoshop actions, still absolutely urinates over everything I throw at it.

I hope this helps. If you want to make changes, I'll more than happily to take your feedback and put an alternative list together for you.

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #13 on: 10 May, 2018, 09:29:43 pm »
Hmmm, that's interesting.  Thanks.

My view is that I'd like a passive cooling system with a well vented almost see-through case, a big flower cooler, a blu ray drive and replace the HDD with a 500gb ssd.  Also 16gb ram.

I will be doing some video editing but nothing excessively taxing so perhaps a passively cooled graphics card might come in useful too.

Afasoas

Re: New PC system box
« Reply #14 on: 10 May, 2018, 10:14:54 pm »
FWIW, I've looked hard at the large passively cooled heatsinks and, when sourcing your own components, getting the right combination of case and motherboard to fit one looks hellish. They are huge! I almost bought one for my initial server build, but I abandoned the idea as the cooler either wouldn't wouldn't clear the ram or sides of the case on any of my limited choice of motherboards, due to the positioning of the CPU socket.

If cost is a consideratin, they tend to quite expensive too.

The Noctua coolers and fans are the absolute dogs danglies. With the initial build of my home server, if the hard disks were spun down you could not tell it was switched on. And I got CPU temperatures <30°C. They were still that quite with no sign of bearing wear after spinning continuously for 2 years.

The CPU cooler is still in situ and they are still undectably silent after over 3 years continuous use. I pulled it from the rack and stopped the fans in order to diagnose what I thought was a dodgy fan bearing only to find it was HDD spindles.

Revised price list: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/vTM3yX

That includes:
500GB SSD + £30
16GB RAM (4 x 4GB), + £80
Blu-ray writer (a DVD writer/Blu-ray reader only seems to save a small amount) + £50
Different case with mesh front and support for up to five fans + £54
An additional Noctua Fan + £17

With that case I think you'd probably have in-let fans either on the front and bottom/side, and exhaust at top and rear.