Author Topic: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb  (Read 1156 times)

Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« on: 05 December, 2021, 05:43:25 pm »
I have five downlighters in the kitchen that come on with a normal light switch.   I've presumed 12V halogen, but not thought about them since we moved in a decade ago.  One has just burst (with a loud bang).

I thought I might as well replace all five to match (I thought they were getting dimmer than when we moved in), and if so then go LED.

I can't work out what light bulbs I need.  The bulb has no markings on it at all.  If it is 12v then the transformer is hidden somewhere as I've never found it - in the old house it was just laying on top of a cupboard.   (Switch is by entrance to kitchen, and these lights are the opposite side of the kitchen above the window.

Light fitting
     -> http://nuttycyclist.co.uk/photos/light_bulb/IMG_0046.JPG

Wire the bulb plugs into
  -> http://nuttycyclist.co.uk/photos/light_bulb/IMG_0044.JPG   (ignore the masking tape, there's a massive draft coming in now I have taken the bulb out).

The offending bulb
  -> http://nuttycyclist.co.uk/photos/light_bulb/IMG_0047.JPG

I haven't embedded the images, as they don't show for everybody, so apologies for additional clicking.   I have tried to look up the bulb on the internet, but there seem to be too many options.

Many thanks in advance.

Kim

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #1 on: 05 December, 2021, 05:48:15 pm »
That's an MR16.

If you pull (gently!) on the wires from the connector, which are probably about 30cm long, the 'transformer' may emerge, which should have specifications printed on it.

If instead of a transformer you get a mains-voltage choc-block or mass of insulting tape, that's equally informative.  If you get bare wires that used to connect to something before you yanked it, well, now you have two problems.

Feanor

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #2 on: 05 December, 2021, 05:56:06 pm »
Those are MR16 12v Halogens.

You can replace directly with LEDS, eg:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/aurora-ice-gu5-3-mr16-led-light-bulb-500lm-5w/8010p

The transformer will be a short distance away ( typically around 6") on the ends of those wires.
If you are lucky, the LEDs will run directly off the old transformer.
Just plug them in, like-for-like.
If you are unlucky, they may flicker like hell and require the transformers to be replaced with ones that are happy with the smaller LED load.

Transformer replacement can be simple if it can be pulled down through the hole in the ceiling.
Otherwise, you are looking at cutting an access hatch in the plasterboard and patching up later.

I recently replaced 15 of those here, and I needed to replace 3 transformers.
Only one required hacking holes in the ceiling.
There's the last of my posts on the topic:
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1241.msg2678010#msg2678010




Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #3 on: 05 December, 2021, 06:08:21 pm »
Thanks guys·    When you say the transformer will be 6" away from the bulb, do you mean this bulb or the fifth one that's 10 feet away, and will the transformer fit out through the light fitting?   (No I'm not taking the ceiling down, or tiles off the roof, to access another way.)

Thanks for the screwfix link, (only been 4.5 hours since I was down there for some plumbing stuff), but £8.29 seems a lot for a light bulb - especially if it's the wrong one and I damage it.  Over £40 just for 5 bulbs to get them all matching?  Mrs Nutty has today purchased some light bulbs for elsewhere in the house at just £4 each. 

Feanor

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #4 on: 05 December, 2021, 06:19:49 pm »
There will be one transformer per fitting.
Each transformer will be around 6 inches away from it's respective fitting.
This is to keep the low-voltage / high-current 12v wires as short as possible, yet far enough away from the heat of the 50w halogen.

Yes, the transformers are designed to be shoved up the 'ole in the ceiling, and the light fitting then snapped in place after it.
These fittings are held up by a pair of spring-loaded 'wings', which are tensioned up by a part of the spring which gets compressed by the diameter of the hole, as you push the fitting into the 'ole.
To remove them, simply pull them downwards out of the ceiling.

You'd be fairly unlucky to come across an installation where the transformers had been screwed down in the void space and un-removable by simply pulling it out the 'ole.
Worst case, an access hatch of around 6" square is enough to work through.
But with any luck, you might not need to replace any transformers at all. It's a suck-it-and-see thing.

Regarding price of LED replacements, that was just an example.
It's the ones I used.
You pays your money and make your choice.
Perhaps buy one and test it in the various locations before splurging more cash.
I'll just add that cheap LEDs tend to have poorer colour rendition, worse / unknown flicker, and poor lifespan.

It's not the wrong one, and you won't damage it unless you do something silly.

robgul

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #5 on: 05 December, 2021, 07:38:21 pm »
My recommendation would be (for each light) pull the transformer out and remove it - then with a choc block and short length of cable connect new 240v LED downlights - they should just pop back into the hole in the plasterboard.

I replaced 20+ in our kitchen/utility - light is brighter, much less electricity and no heat as you get from a halogen - not massively expensive (you only have 5)

https://www.ledbulbs.co.uk/   has the best prices I could find (Nov 2020).

This is the order for 17 (I bought a further few that were suitable to be above a cooker)

 Kosnic 4.5W LED GU10 PAR16 Very Warm White - KTEC4.5PWR/GU10-S27 × 17   £33.32
 
 Aurora Enlite Fixed Fire Rated IP20 Non-Integrated Downlight Satin Nickel- EN-FD101SN × 17  £76.67


Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #6 on: 06 December, 2021, 07:13:26 am »
I have several Auroras. Very good quality. They have a good big smoothing capacitor - dim down when switched off.
Mains LED replacement may seem a faff but it's not much more work than connecting to old transformers and will be more reliable. With luck the transformer input tails will be long enough to pull out.
Tips when replacing the transformers, find the first one in the daisy chain. If necessary it may be possible to replace the cables in the ceiling void  between each new lamp to avoid jointing, good quality replacement lamps will have a cable in and cable out connection to make a chain.
For any mains voltage joints use a proprietary system such as Wago with their boxes. It's easier to connect and compliant with wiring regs. (Unlike Choc blocs and tape).
Most of it is about being methodical, having tools and headtorch to hand but please, take care. If you have any doubts GAEI.

robgul

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #7 on: 06 December, 2021, 07:44:35 am »
My recommendation would be (for each light) pull the transformer out and remove it - then with a choc block and short length of cable connect new 240v LED downlights - they should just pop back into the hole in the plasterboard.

I replaced 20+ in our kitchen/utility - light is brighter, much less electricity and no heat as you get from a halogen - not massively expensive (you only have 5)

https://www.ledbulbs.co.uk/   has the best prices I could find (Nov 2020).

This is the order for 17 (I bought a further few that were suitable to be above a cooker)

 Kosnic 4.5W LED GU10 PAR16 Very Warm White - KTEC4.5PWR/GU10-S27 × 17   £33.32
 
 Aurora Enlite Fixed Fire Rated IP20 Non-Integrated Downlight Satin Nickel- EN-FD101SN × 17  £76.67

Added: my comment about the short length of cable was made as in my situation the cables to the transformers weren't long enough to reach the lamp units.  The lamp units were precisely the same size as the halogens being replaced so there was no cutting of holes or redecoration :thumbsup:

Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #8 on: 06 December, 2021, 01:56:59 pm »
Cheers for all the thoughts and input folks.   I had been thinking it was just a case of "old bulb out, new one in" - I'd overlooked the transformer issue and also flickering LEDs (which I've experienced in other houses and hate).

Mr's Nutty's friend's partner is an electrician so I'll ask if a favour can be called in.   He let me down last time though when all I wanted was him to read through a list of stuff to make sure I'd specc'd it all correctly.

Feanor

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #9 on: 06 December, 2021, 02:00:29 pm »
Cheers for all the thoughts and input folks.   I had been thinking it was just a case of "old bulb out, new one in"

There's a fair chance it will be just that.

Buy one, and test it in each of the fittings in turn to see which ones have the flicker-o-doom.
If you are lucky, none, and job done.

Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #10 on: 06 December, 2021, 02:07:13 pm »
Cheers for all the thoughts and input folks.   I had been thinking it was just a case of "old bulb out, new one in"

There's a fair chance it will be just that.

Buy one, and test it in each of the fittings in turn to see which ones have the flicker-o-doom.
If you are lucky, none, and job done.
The simple change is worth a try, as it is so much less effort than anything else.
Quote from: Kim
Paging Diver300.  Diver300 to the GSM Trimphone, please...


robgul

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #12 on: 08 December, 2021, 03:23:26 pm »
Heads up:  ToolStation seems to have in-store promo on LED fire-rated downlighters at £6 a throw (or at least they have in the branch in SuA that I've just been to)

rogerzilla

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Re: Help me identify a downlighter lightbulb
« Reply #13 on: 08 December, 2021, 03:48:56 pm »
Cheap ones may be Chinese shite that last a matter of weeks.  DAHIKT.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.