Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[quixoticgeek]

Just checked temp in my office. 16C

I'm sat here with a jumper on, perfectly comfortable.

We overheat our houses.

That's comfortable for you. That is seriously fucking cold for an indoor space for me. I would be entirely non functional in such a space.

We do not over heat out houses. Some people just have different temperatures that they find comfortable.

J

[mrcharly-YHT]

Just checked temp in my office. 16C

I'm sat here with a jumper on, perfectly comfortable.

We overheat our houses.

That's comfortable for you. That is seriously fucking cold for an indoor space for me. I would be entirely non functional in such a space.

We do not over heat out houses. Some people just have different temperatures that they find comfortable.

J

I live with someone who is 'cold' compared to me. We dress very differently; there are times when I'm sat in a T shirt and jeans - she looks relatively lightly dressed, but is wearing wool base layer, leggings, wool dress and an open cardigan/throw.

It would be interesting to see if you were comfortable, dressed similarly, in similar temps.

Quite a lot of us folk who enjoy type two fun, and own the right clothing, don't use that clothing when in our domestic setting.

[Feanor]

For me it also depends on what you are doing.
If I am sitting still in front of a laptop for hours, then I will chill down more than if I'm up and moving around.

Luckily, I use my den as my WfH space, and it has all the IT kit in it so stays at a comfortable temperature anyways.

I really don't want to be sitting around at home in the same kit I'd be wearing outdoors halfway up a mountain.

[Ham]

I accidentally put the washing machine on the eco settings, so it took 4 hours to do the towels instead of 1

This type of thing is another issue which highlights something that prevents widespread effective steps being taken to save energy. That is, people don't really understand science. On a discussion like this, in this kind of place, it tends to be amongst informed people. But, I would consider Mrs Ham to be an intelligent, well informed person. However, she struggles mightily with the idea that a longer cycle will use less energy than a shorter one. As she does with the flow reducers on modern taps (our hot water cylinder is a long way away from the kitchen). A new tap now takes much longer to run hot - "how can it save water? It's running down the drain for much longer". 

It matters not a jot what the science is, the real world is mostly occupied by people who really do not understand, so making wrong choices is not their fault along people who _won't_ understand always choosing what they perceive as the best option for them personally in the short term, regardless of whether it is or not. You don't have to look further than the recent car fuel "crisis" at those who can't drive with a lighter right foot.

Doomed we are, doomed.

[Feanor]

But the issue you highlight here is quite significant.

Some of the so-called 'eco' measures applied to domestic appliances etc are really just greenwash.

Eg 'saving water': toilet flush becomes inadequate to clear the bowl, so this can result in double-flushing as often as not.
Flow reducers on taps? Those things that fluff the water up with air? Why? If I turn the tap on, it's because I want water, not air. I can adjust the flow as necessary.
Wash cycles of several hours: what do they actually achieve? Lower wash temps will use marginally less power, I suppose.

It just seems to me that a lot of this stuff is tokenism that increases inconvenience disproportionately to any actual benefit.

[mrcharly-YHT]

But the issue you highlight here is quite significant.

Some of the so-called 'eco' measures applied to domestic appliances etc are really just greenwash.

Eg 'saving water': toilet flush becomes inadequate to clear the bowl, so this can result in double-flushing as often as not.
Flow reducers on taps? Those things that fluff the water up with air? Why? If I turn the tap on, it's because I want water, not air. I can adjust the flow as necessary.
Wash cycles of several hours: what do they actually achieve? Lower wash temps will use marginally less power, I suppose.

It just seems to me that a lot of this stuff is tokenism that increases inconvenience disproportionately to any actual benefit.

Long wash cycles usually have pauses, allowing the clothes to soak in the wet detergent.
Lower temperatures, not turning the drum as much; less energy used.

[Mrs Pingu]

Just checked temp in my office. 16C

I'm sat here with a jumper on, perfectly comfortable.

We overheat our houses.

I can be sat in the same room as Pingu who is wearing shorts, I'll be wearing a fleece zipped up to my chin (and sometimes have the hood up), be sitting under a fleece blanket folded in half from my toes to my oxters, have a couple of feline hot water bottles sat on my lap or next to my legs and still have a nose and fingers like some meat that's been in the fridge.

[Polar Bear]

I am of the view that the house should be neither hot nor cold.   Modest warmth helps keep dampness and mould at bay but also we need to allow fresh air to circulate on a regular basis.

I don't see the issue of wearing a fleece and wonder just how wasteful an extra 2 or 3 degrees on the thermostat costs in terms of burnt fuel and environmental impact let alone 5 or 6!

One thing that lockdown saved me from was visiting people who insist on running the house at temperatures warmer than most English summer days: and yet, we don't have the heating on for at least half of the year.  Once dressing for outdoors it's quite a game to peel off numerous layers without appearing rude!

[Kim]

Just checked temp in my office. 16C

I'm sat here with a jumper on, perfectly comfortable.

We overheat our houses.

That's comfortable for you. That is seriously fucking cold for an indoor space for me. I would be entirely non functional in such a space.

We do not over heat out houses. Some people just have different temperatures that they find comfortable.

J

I live with someone who is 'cold' compared to me. We dress very differently; there are times when I'm sat in a T shirt and jeans - she looks relatively lightly dressed, but is wearing wool base layer, leggings, wool dress and an open cardigan/throw.

It would be interesting to see if you were comfortable, dressed similarly, in similar temps.

Quite a lot of us folk who enjoy type two fun, and own the right clothing, don't use that clothing when in our domestic setting.

I'll weigh in with room at 21.4C, feeling on the warm side of comfortable (borderline sweaty) in technical jeans, t-shirt and fleece.  My fingers are almost but not quite painfully cold and I'm alternating between keyboard and sitting on them.

When I'm participating in Type 2 Fun, I tend to be generating enough heat to warm my extremities (and - crucially - I have a much higher tolerance for feeling uncomfortably hot when exercising).  When sat at the computer, I don't.

If the temperature were in the 23-24C range, I'd feel hot, would wear less clothing, and my fingers would be fine.  Sleep would be difficult.

I don't think humans were designed for sitting at computers.

(Thermostat is set to 20C (more usually 19C, but barakta's living downstairs atm), and I sit on my hands all winter.)

[robgul]

The cost of building offshore oil rigs is immense, they are incredibly ugly and the decommissioning is expensive and easily polluting. The 'nudge point' of making offshore wind a more attractive business can't be far off. I think it was BP that paid a record price for licence to build wind in an area. Just a little push more . . .

The East Coast of Scotland... there is a shit load of near shore wind schemes in the planning on top of the capacity already built.

https://www.offshorewindscotland.org.uk/forth-tay-offshore/


The North Sea is well set for it, relatively shallow waters means not too expensive to get the foundations in and plenty of wind.
When floating turbines prove themselves in the North Sea, then the wind capacity of the Atlantic is there for the taking.

That nice Mr Trump is none too keen on those "windmills" interfering with the vista from his golf course near Aberdeen.

To me the offshore fans are rather graceful, the on tops of hills ones not quite so good and can be a bit noisy.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Just checked temp in my office. 16C

I'm sat here with a jumper on, perfectly comfortable.

We overheat our houses.

That's comfortable for you. That is seriously fucking cold for an indoor space for me. I would be entirely non functional in such a space.

We do not over heat out houses. Some people just have different temperatures that they find comfortable.

J

I live with someone who is 'cold' compared to me. We dress very differently; there are times when I'm sat in a T shirt and jeans - she looks relatively lightly dressed, but is wearing wool base layer, leggings, wool dress and an open cardigan/throw.

It would be interesting to see if you were comfortable, dressed similarly, in similar temps.

Quite a lot of us folk who enjoy type two fun, and own the right clothing, don't use that clothing when in our domestic setting.

I'll weigh in with room at 21.4C, feeling on the warm side of comfortable (borderline sweaty) in technical jeans, t-shirt and fleece.  My fingers are almost but not quite painfully cold and I'm alternating between keyboard and sitting on them.

When I'm participating in Type 2 Fun, I tend to be generating enough heat to warm my extremities (and - crucially - I have a much higher tolerance for feeling uncomfortably hot when exercising).  When sat at the computer, I don't.

If the temperature were in the 23-24C range, I'd feel hot, would wear less clothing, and my fingers would be fine.  Sleep would be difficult.

I don't think humans were designed for sitting at computers.

(Thermostat is set to 20C (more usually 19C, but barakta's living downstairs atm), and I sit on my hands all winter.)

Defo. As I said way back on p2, it's all about physical movement, which is kind of difficult when you're sitting at a desk. I imagine it was even worse in the pre-computer days when you had to hold a pen for hours on end.

[lissotriton]

Fingerless gloves or wrist warmers can help for sitting at a computer.
Or anyone tried a heated mouse mat / keyboard?

[quixoticgeek]

Fingerless gloves or wrist warmers can help for sitting at a computer.
Or anyone tried a heated mouse mat / keyboard?

Tried the fingerless thing. Doesn't help, it just means that less of the hand is too cold to use.

Heated keyboard? sure, just open chrome and let it abuse all the laptop's cpu cycles :p

Right now my flat is 23°C. It's a comfortable temp for me. I can feel my feet and my hands. i can think.

My bedroom is about 21°C. Any colder and I find it very hard to get out of bed in the morning.

J

[FifeingEejit]

I accidentally put the washing machine on the eco settings, so it took 4 hours to do the towels instead of 1

This type of thing is another issue which highlights something that prevents widespread effective steps being taken to save energy. That is, people don't really understand science. On a discussion like this, in this kind of place, it tends to be amongst informed people. But, I would consider Mrs Ham to be an intelligent, well informed person. However, she struggles mightily with the idea that a longer cycle will use less energy than a shorter one. As she does with the flow reducers on modern taps (our hot water cylinder is a long way away from the kitchen). A new tap now takes much longer to run hot - "how can it save water? It's running down the drain for much longer". 

It matters not a jot what the science is, the real world is mostly occupied by people who really do not understand, so making wrong choices is not their fault along people who _won't_ understand always choosing what they perceive as the best option for them personally in the short term, regardless of whether it is or not. You don't have to look further than the recent car fuel "crisis" at those who can't drive with a lighter right foot.

Doomed we are, doomed.

It's autumn, in Scotland
The towels had to go in the dryer because after 4 hours there was no hope they were going to be dried on the line. It was dark and calm.
Had I used the 1hr cycle given the running cost differential between the washer and the dryer and the whirly, 1hr washer + 4hrs whirly + 20m dryer < 4hrs washer + 3hrs dryer

Washing is a series of events that all have their own cost to reach the same outcome. 
Using the cheapest setting on all devices is not necessarily cheaper than getting one phase done quickly at higher cost and then the next event having a grand cost of £0

In a few weeks time it will almost certainly cheaper to use the cheapest setting for all events because it'll be dark, wet and cold which negates the fact it will also be blowing a hoolie (aka a double pegger day in these parts).

That nice Mr Trump is none too keen on those "windmills" interfering with the vista from his golf course near Aberdeen.

To me the offshore fans are rather graceful, the on tops of hills ones not quite so good and can be a bit noisy.

Aye He's nae an he wiz telt tae ram it.



Room temp:
Hoose thermostat is set to 18/19 for the bedroom (on the north wall)
Radiators set to get the office room up to 20ish (It gets to 23 if it's sunny as it's on a south wall... I could do with a more advanced TRV in here)
I wear thin merino or thick lambswool jumpers all year, and cords. (no I am not a geography teacher)

[Kim]

My bedroom is about 21°C. Any colder and I find it very hard to get out of bed in the morning.

21C is my upper limit for a decent night's sleep.

16C is my lower limit for avoiding long-term decline in control of my asthma.  (In the absence of infection or whatever I can go a few nights at much lower temperatures, and it gets most of the way to zero before the cold triggers asthma attacks on its own^[1].)

I've yet to experience a temperature that makes getting out of bed in the morning easy...


_{[1] Turns out you can't insulate yourself out of breathing cold air, see above re: type 2 fun.}

[quixoticgeek]

I've yet to experience a temperature that makes getting out of bed in the morning easy...

It's never easier. But it's less hard at 21°C than it is at 16°C or 10°C.

I spent too many winters where with heating on maxed out the place I lived was 10-12°C in the middle of winter. Just the idea of being back to that gives me a panic attack.

J

[perpetual dan]

Fingerless gloves or wrist warmers can help for sitting at a computer.
Or anyone tried a heated mouse mat / keyboard?

I think fingerless gloves on video calls will erode people's respect.

My question was more for Mrs Dan, who feels the cold more than me (the other day she was in layers, warm jumper, leggings, slippers and cold; i was in a t shirt and barefoot and comfortable). An efficient way to boost the heat around her is what i was after - your tube heater idea sounded interesting.

[Cudzoziemiec]

At one place in far off Eastern Poland, one of my colleagues was an impecunious young woman straight out of uni, who was renting a room off an old woman in the Old Town. The buildings in that district had heating systems installed in the renovations post-WW2, which means a solid fuel (ideally coal but could be wood or more frequently rubbish) tiled stove in the corner. No central heating system, no radiators. This old lady's only source of income besides whatever she got in rent was a widow's pension, probably about 500zl a month (just under £100). Even 20 years ago, even in far off easternest Eastern Poland, that wasn't very much, so she couldn't afford much coal. And the winters could be subzero for a few months at a time. My colleague informed me that when the indoor temperature is 12 degrees, you (ie she) can still work, but when it gets down to 8, it's impossible.

[fd3]

I would say don't use the oven, as it seems to me it uses a lot of fuel compared to other methods of cooking.

That's pretty hair-shirt, even by the standards of this thread.
Making bread over a hotel-issue milliwatt iron is going to be somewhat challenging.

And it's misguided. Running the oven for an hour, is about 2.5kwh of energy (based on googling how much energy does an oven use). Which if the oven was out in the garden, would result in 2.5Kwh of energy lost to atmosphere, plus dinner. But your oven is in the kitchen, so running the oven for an hour puts 2.5kwh of energy into the kitchen in the form of warmth. And produces dinner. Saving you the need for 2.5kwh of heating in that room. It's a win win.

J

True.  So looking to your point on using a drier, it will warm your house as it dries your clothes, reducing your heating bills.
(we have the drier in #1 son's bedroom to maximise heat in the house.  Obvs we don't use it in the summer because we aren't mental)

[lissotriton]

True.  So looking to your point on using a drier, it will warm your house as it dries your clothes, reducing your heating bills.
(we have the drier in #1 son's bedroom to maximise heat in the house.  Obvs we don't use it in the summer because we aren't mental)

Depends on what sort of tumble dryer. A regular, cheap vented tumble drier is dumping the hot air outside. So that is just wasted energy.
If you have a heat pump tumble dryer, that should use much less electricity, and the heat should mostly be staying inside.

[fd3]

Merino base layers are bloody marvellous. As are merino jumpers. They might cost upwards of £60 a piece but you're getting for comfort in low temperatures. And you take that comfort with you when you go outdoors.

See QGs "being rich" post, although I'd argue most of it is actually "comfortably off" rather than "rich" but that may be a perception difference as to what rich is.

I'd say it's "prioritising" as much/more than being rich.  Buy one top or buy 6 disposable ones from Primark?  It's a choice.  Buy cheap now or wait and buy better?  It's a choice.  Are you going to get your car on finance or your A++ rated appliances?  It's a choice.

[Mrs Pingu]

I'd never heard of the heat pump dryers until this thread. Every day's a school day.

[Lightning Phil]

Warm part of house is 17C in winter.  We always have the windows open in the bedroom unless rain or snow blowing in.  Don’t measure temp but prefer it cool with fresh air for sleeping.

[quixoticgeek]

I'd say it's "prioritising" as much/more than being rich.  Buy one top or buy 6 disposable ones from Primark?  It's a choice.  Buy cheap now or wait and buy better?  It's a choice.  Are you going to get your car on finance or your A++ rated appliances?  It's a choice.

It's only a choice if you have the money, and the financial savvy to be able to make it. If you're on Universal credit and just had your benefits cut, then saving up for a 60 quid merino top is going to take a long time, and may mean a few days being hungry.

See Sam Vime's theory.

A nice wool jumper, that is made of actual wool, and not acrylic, is *REALLY* expensive these days.

True.  So looking to your point on using a drier, it will warm your house as it dries your clothes, reducing your heating bills.
(we have the drier in #1 son's bedroom to maximise heat in the house.  Obvs we don't use it in the summer because we aren't mental)

Except as others have already said, if it's the older style that vents outside. In which case it's wasted.

It's autumn, in Scotland
The towels had to go in the dryer because after 4 hours there was no hope they were going to be dried on the line. It was dark and calm.
Had I used the 1hr cycle given the running cost differential between the washer and the dryer and the whirly, 1hr washer + 4hrs whirly + 20m dryer < 4hrs washer + 3hrs dryer

I took my towel out of the washing machine and hung it up in the unheated bathroom (it get's most of it's warmth from the Kitchen, which has the radiator on low, and primarily gets heated by me making dinner). Do that at about 2200 when I hang the washing up. It's dry when I shower the next morning at about 9ish. The rest of the laundry gets hung on a rack that hangs over the front of my bedroom door. Again, hang stuff up about 2200ish, and it's dry by morning. In winter I sometimes put stuff on the radiator, usually things that are awkward, like my cycling gloves.

Humidity in my flat currently is 47.4%, and in the middle of winter with snow on the ground it gets to about 30%.

<United Kingdom
Following the reduction of the top rate of income tax in the UK from 50% to 45% in 2013, HMRC estimated the cost of the tax reduction to be about £100 million (out of an income for this group of around £90 billion), but with large uncertainty on both sides. Robert Chote, the chairman of the UK Office for Budget Responsibility commented that Britain was "strolling across the summit of the Laffer curve", implying that UK tax rates had been close to the optimum rate.[37][38]>

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

If only slogans solved problems 

Right, now tax Facebook, and Amazon, and Google, and all the other fucking huge firms that pay less in tax in the UK, than I pay VAT on hygiene products. Oh, and while you're at it stop fucking subsidising the fossil fuel industry.

Then, when we've done that, seize the assets of any individual with worth over 1B, They can keep the first £99999999. But they really don't need the rest.

See QGs "being rich" post, although I'd argue most of it is actually "comfortably off" rather than "rich" but that may be a perception difference as to what rich is.

Yes, on a global scale, anyone posting to this forum is Rich... Even in the UK, if you have food in your kitchen, a warm house, and comfortable clothes, and discretionary spending money each month, you're doing better than several million of our fellow citizens. But yes, comfortably off is probably a good description.

J

[fruitcake]

I reckon the concept I'm going to call 'micro-heating' will catch on. This is a bit like the idea that you don't have to heat the entire house to be comfortable. Only, this is a step further. You don't have to heat the whole room to stay comfortable. Electric blankets are an example of micro-heating. As are heated car seats. There are companies which have designed living room chairs with heating elements.

I have an oil-filled radiator under my desk...

I'd say that's an implementation of micro-heating, because it places the heat where it's needed and the desktop here is a 'hood' to stop (some of) the heat escaping.

You can also warm the touch points. There are heated computer keyboards, and heated mice, for instance.

Heated gilets warm just the areas of the body that get cold first, i.e. kidneys and lower back. They're now available in designs that look like normal clothes, and they take USB power in (rather than the early ones which were designed specifically for builders and motorcyclists and required specialist batteries.)

I think we'll see more of this kind of stuff. Electric elements allow designs that isolate heat to an extent that's just not possible with coolant-filled radiators. And I hope we do see more innovation in this direction. A fringe benefit is that it's portable. You can set up office in places you couldn't otherwise.