Home energy saving tips /ideas...

[mrcharly-YHT]

I still think that the biggest problem we face in the UK is the expectation that, when it is 0C outside, every room in our house will be over 21C.

Why?

I am getting so so so so so fucking pissed off with people thinking we shouldn't be warm. It's 2021 and we have both the means and the technology such that we can sit in our homes at 21+°C when it's -20°C outside, and with zero emissions.

It is simply criminal that house builders have not been building better quality housing in the last four decades. We've known about high quality insulation, sealing, and the rest of the Passivhaus standard since as far back as the 80's. With such a building I should be able to be my comfortable 23°C with just the input of a single candle.

It's gross negligence on behalf of the government that more is not being done to make zero emission heating possible for more people. it's gross incompetence that efforts to improve insulation have failed to reach the levels we need through poor design of the bureaucracy behind it.

But, in all this, we should not be shaming people for wanting to be warm and comfortable. If you wanna turn the heating off and wrap up in a blanket, go for it. But don't go trying to shame others.

Yes space heating is approx 17% of emissions. But the only thing stopping this being fixed is capitalism. The technology is there. It's just not evenly distributed. And the only thing stopping that is ideological belief in the scarcity of money. There's no excuse for it.

J

Houses not being insulated decently is a separate issue from people having unrealistic temperature expectations.

Bodies adapt - when I lived in australia my body was used to the heat. every year, summer started, there would be a day when I *felt* the change, and then the heat was less suffocating afterwards.

I've been living up in the Hebrides for a good few months now and my body is used to the generally cooler conditions, partly because we don't heat our house all the time. MrsC has also adapted.

Sure we have better technology. Saying that we should always be keeping houses at 21C 'because we have the technology' isn't much different from saying we should all the time use  motorised transport  'because we have the technology'.

Both acts (heating and using cars) have an environmental cost. People (in the west) have become accustomed to using technology to adapt the environment rather than letting bodies do some of the adaption.

[DuncanM]

I don't think we should always be keeping our houses at 21 degrees, but always keeping them at a temperature that is comfortable seems reasonable.
Different people run according to different thermostats, and I think we need to accept that a reasonable temperature for one person might be unbearably cold for another.

We can fix the eco cost of heating houses if we want to. If we choose not to, that's not the fault of the person for whom 20 degrees makes them feel cold, and them being cold is not going to save the planet.

[quixoticgeek]

Houses not being insulated decently is a separate issue from people having unrealistic temperature expectations.

Bodies adapt - when I lived in australia my body was used to the heat. every year, summer started, there would be a day when I *felt* the change, and then the heat was less suffocating afterwards.

I've been living up in the Hebrides for a good few months now and my body is used to the generally cooler conditions, partly because we don't heat our house all the time. MrsC has also adapted.

Sure we have better technology. Saying that we should always be keeping houses at 21C 'because we have the technology' isn't much different from saying we should all the time use  motorised transport  'because we have the technology'.

Both acts (heating and using cars) have an environmental cost. People (in the west) have become accustomed to using technology to adapt the environment rather than letting bodies do some of the adaption.

I lived for a number of years in a house that in the middle of winter would be about 12°C inside. You don't adjust. You're just paralysed by cold. You can't function cos of all the clothing and blankets needed to simply exist.

You might be comfortable at temps under 20°C. But that doesn't mean you should impose that on others. We should strive for better quality housing so people can be comfortable without destroying the planet. Esp as the technology already exists, it's just not being used because capitalism.

I now live in a home with good insulation, and where the heating is based on an efficient shared city heat system. It can be done. And it should be done. Simply telling people to be uncomfortable isn't going to work. Making it people's individual responsibility isn't going to work.

J

[mrcharly-YHT]

Houses not being insulated decently is a separate issue from people having unrealistic temperature expectations.

Bodies adapt - when I lived in australia my body was used to the heat. every year, summer started, there would be a day when I *felt* the change, and then the heat was less suffocating afterwards.

I've been living up in the Hebrides for a good few months now and my body is used to the generally cooler conditions, partly because we don't heat our house all the time. MrsC has also adapted.

Sure we have better technology. Saying that we should always be keeping houses at 21C 'because we have the technology' isn't much different from saying we should all the time use  motorised transport  'because we have the technology'.

Both acts (heating and using cars) have an environmental cost. People (in the west) have become accustomed to using technology to adapt the environment rather than letting bodies do some of the adaption.

I lived for a number of years in a house that in the middle of winter would be about 12°C inside. You don't adjust. You're just paralysed by cold. You can't function cos of all the clothing and blankets needed to simply exist.

You might be comfortable at temps under 20°C. But that doesn't mean you should impose that on others. We should strive for better quality housing so people can be comfortable without destroying the planet. Esp as the technology already exists, it's just not being used because capitalism.

I now live in a home with good insulation, and where the heating is based on an efficient shared city heat system. It can be done. And it should be done. Simply telling people to be uncomfortable isn't going to work. Making it people's individual responsibility isn't going to work.

J

I accept that not everyone can adapt. However most can and do.

Before we moved here I was concerned about how my partner would cope. She has systemic arthritis and hasn't coped will with cold.

She's surprised me. Working out in the barn on pottery for hours at and (an unheated, drafty, very very damp barn). When she puts the heating on, she chooses a temp of about 18-19 C.

You don't adjust. You're just paralysed by cold. You can't function cos of all the clothing and blankets needed to simply exist.

I accept that was your experience. It isn't mine.

[ian]

We all adapt to a degree, otherwise no one would be able to move from London to Singapore and subsequently walk down the street. I lived in Georgia one summer, I got used to the heat (I wouldn't say it was pleasant), but I also lived through the notably coldest winter in Ottawa a few years before (froze my ears solid).

[FifeingEejit]

It's not simply a case of adaptation. (QG has made the rest of this point so I provide only an example)
I have a cycling friend who will not remove his arm and leg warmers until it's over 20C
I think about putting them on around 10C

Despite being born in South Yorkshire he has lived within 5 miles of me from around Primary 1 to until last January when I moved slightly further south.

Body Composition is part of it, but even when I wiz skinny (I've gained an amount of weight every injury that I then seem unable to lose possibly due to cake addiction) my temperature tolerance was barely different from now.
Yet I am not one of those "shorts all year" people you get round these parts, no sod that my lower legs get cold.

Adaptation does exist, you'll get used to it being mild all year and bloody windy out in the atlantic but it's likely within what is already your tolerance range.

[iandusud]

What I do think is irresponsible is to heat a home in winter to the point where you are in a T shirt. We have our thermostat at 16C during the day and turn it up to 18C in the evening when we are less active and tired. I would never think of not wearing warm clothing in winter and am staggered by the temperatures to which many others heat their homes.

[L CC]

I think it's hypocritical to claim that personal transport is an individual responsibility when that's easy for you, living in a city in a flat country, but that indoor heating can be solved by technology because you like the heating on. That seems like picking and choosing what works for you.

I can put up with heating at about 17°C but I'm driving an ICE vehicle with just me in it for 14km each way because its 300m climbing and cold, wet windy and horrible out there a lot of the time, and riding is harder work than I can cope with while working 40 hours a week.

[ian]

It's all a bit first world though (and yes, shoot me down, I'm sitting here in a house heated to 20.5 degrees) – if you live in a home in many parts of the world, you don't get central heating or a/c.

I'm not saying we have to suffer, but it is clear that humans can adapt to modest changes in temperature (as can any warm-blooded animal, our entire physiology is designed for this).

I think we all forget how awesome our first-world lives are. Much of the world still doesn't live in a place where they can tell Alexa to make it warmer. And even in places where you can, an increasing number can't afford to.

[quixoticgeek]

What I do think is irresponsible is to heat a home in winter to the point where you are in a T shirt. We have our thermostat at 16C during the day and turn it up to 18C in the evening when we are less active and tired. I would never think of not wearing warm clothing in winter and am staggered by the temperatures to which many others heat their homes.

I'm currently sat in a merino base layer, wrapped in a shawl. But sure.

J

[Mrs Pingu]

This thread seems to have turned into the other thread on a similar matter in fight club, maybe we can move the arguing back in there?

[ian]

Shut up. I hate people with warmth-generating cats and I'm going to argue with them on the internet. Filthy fur huggers.

[Mrs Pingu]

 

[PaulF]

Perhaps drifting the thread back on topic I just installed a “chimney sheep” a custom lambs wool plug to reduce the drought up the chimney which made a massive improvement.

[barakta]

We have a hideous blanket someone bought us that is wrapped in a bin bag and performing a similar purpose up the chimney in our computer room. Same for the bedroom one which we also boarded up after the neighbours house works over the joint roof caused loads of crap, dust etc to fall down into our bedroom (Thanks for warning us BEFORE you did the work, not; fuckers).

When we had single glazed windows we had that plastic film that you can tape round windows which did make a bit of a difference to heat loss from the rooms in this drafty shabby rented house. It cost a few quid a year and was more about comfort as well as possibly reducing our heating bills.

I think our smart heating (home brew) probably saves money/energy too cos we try and keep things stable and avoid heating rooms we are not using. I get cold easily, no matter how many layers I wear (especially how I'm unable to walk and sitting in a wheelchair all day). I do already use hot water bottles and a small heated blanket thing and agree I wouldn't put the heating on till I'd added clothing layers. I live in thermal leggings under clothes and neck scarves from ~October to ~May or thereabouts. I always have felt the cold, even as a child.

[tonyh]

https://www.heritage-house.org/damp-and-condensation/solving-damp-problems-in-your-home/controlling-humidity.html

I'm a bit uneasy about that website when it suggests that lead paint contains metallic lead:

"The paint, Dear Watson, the paint.... Its Victorian.  Lead paint... Er... Lead - you know the stuff your car battery terminals are made of, that conducts electricity REALLY well! The probe was stuck in the paint, and conducting beautifully."

Also not convinced by:

"The bottom line:  If timber is dry, it won't rot, and beetle won't eat it."

[mrcharly-YHT]

"The bottom line:  If timber is dry, it won't rot, and beetle won't eat it."

That is utter twaddle. Beetles love dry wood.


Back to the chimney comments, I recently took out the (original 70s) fireplace and put a inset stove in its place. Not only is the stove more efficient, it blocks the chimney so that there is no draught (when the stove is not lit).

[Jurek]

Much, if not most, of that site  appears to slag off the work, principals, qualification and equipment used by others - with comparatively little information about what their own product does.

[Jaded]

It slags off dehumidifiers. Saying they only deal with symptoms. Their machine(s) also deal with symptoms. To deal with the cause, don't have hot showers and baths and don't cook, wash clothes, etc.

[Mrs Pingu]

Perhaps drifting the thread back on topic I just installed a “chimney sheep” a custom lambs wool plug to reduce the drought up the chimney which made a massive improvement.

I was pondering one of them as well.

[rogerzilla]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-59161949

Utter bollocks - modern washing machines don't last 16 years!  Most fail shortly after the warranty expires.  They are built to a price and most are now unrepairable anyway if the bearings fail (sealed drum). 

[Mr Larrington]

“How modern is modern?” asked Mr Larrington before RZ gets flattened by a tsunami of anecdata…

[quixoticgeek]

https://fullycharged.show/podcasts/podcast-132-the-right-to-repair-with-helen-czerski/

The guy on this podcast claims 8 years as typical life of your average washing machine these days.

J

[PaulF]

Perhaps drifting the thread back on topic I just installed a “chimney sheep” a custom lambs wool plug to reduce the drought up the chimney which made a massive improvement.

I was pondering one of them as well.

I’d definitely recommend it.  Our problem, albeit a first world one, is balancing the temperature in the rest of the house. As a consequence the hall where the thermostat lives and host to the only non-TRV radiator is a lot warmer which means that the thermostat cuts in sooner making other rooms cooler…

[phantasmagoriana]

Perhaps drifting the thread back on topic I just installed a “chimney sheep” a custom lambs wool plug to reduce the drought up the chimney which made a massive improvement.

To be honest, a drought up the chimney is probably better than the alternative.