Guerilla grazing: nomadic dairy sheep farmer

[Cudzoziemiec]

Video about a bloke in Oregon who lives in a small cart pulled by sheep, whose milk provide half his food, moving on every few days and grazing wherever they can. His cart is full of gadgets. Crazy but good.
https://youtu.be/U54HRmglYEA

[barakta]

Video about a bloke in Oregon who lives in a small cart pulled by sheep, whose milk provide half his food, moving on every few days and grazing wherever they can. His cart is full of gadgets. Crazy but good.
https://youtu.be/U54HRmglYEA

Thanks for sharing, that was an interesting watch.

It made me think about people I've known to want to "live off the land" but don't have the mental stability, social and practical skills to do this effectively. This Aaron guy clearly knows lots of things, so he's willing to get educated on practicalities and has the social skills to build up networks of people to help him and who he can help.

I wouldn't find living like that easy but I have great respect for the people who can and appreciate him sharing his little tips and tricks. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

He struck me as the type of person who would probably have difficulty living in conventional society due to social/mental/psychological reasons but whereas many like that would drop out or more likely fall out into drugs, crime, violence, and many ways of harming themselves and others either deliberately or accidentally, he's managed to do it a way which benefits not only him but those he meets. You probably need to be fairly lucky with the climate though, as well as general health.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I wouldn't like to live that way, but youtube's radicalisation algorithm is (today) trying to turn me into an off-grid self-sufficient person. I might quite enjoy living like this guy, who has built his own house, generates all his own electricity and grows a lot of his own food (with wife/partner):
https://youtu.be/lSt96KFFHxA

Thing is though, he emphasises how little all the buildings cost, but he must have had some money to start with to buy the smallholding.

[quixoticgeek]

There's a lot of the whole self sufficient homesteading type things. John Seymour wrote a book about it which inspired a certain popular Sitcom (The good life), as well as kick started a publishing company (Dorling Kingsley) AFAIK.

In recent years it's been picked up a bit by what is oft referred to as cottagecore. Many a person craving for dropping out of society to live on their plot of land in a nice cottage with their partner, to grow their own veg, to have a sheep and a cow, and breed horses. And ya know what. HOLY FUCK is there some shit to unravel in how the message comes across to us all.

https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1443225915073437698

This twitter thread is long, and it's one hell of a ride. I highly recommend it. As someone who owns more than one of John Seymour's books. And as someone who dreams of a cottage with a garden. It's one hell of an eye opener.

The Sheep thing is added to my to watch list.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.

[andrewc]

(Goes into other room to check bookshelves).   Yes , I've got Seymour's book as well.    Sounds bloody hard work & definitely not practical in a 4th floor flat.  I tend to kill every plant I buy or grow as well.  Can't even keep stuff like a pot of Basil healthy 

[quixoticgeek]

(Goes into other room to check bookshelves).   Yes , I've got Seymour's book as well.    Sounds bloody hard work & definitely not practical in a 4th floor flat.  I tend to kill every plant I buy or grow as well.  Can't even keep stuff like a pot of Basil healthy 

I am self sufficient in salad and I grow that on my window sill... that probably says more about how little salad I eat...

J

[quixoticgeek]

I've watched it now.

And I'm angry. Not because of what he's doing or anything like that. But because the video is approaching 1M views. With people sharing on social media about how awesome it is etc...

And yet. At the same time. The Gypsy/Roma/Traveller community is being persecuted in almost every nation. Our own government is passing legislation to marginalise them further and to try to make their way of life untenable. If this guy was in the UK he would have been arrested repeatedly, and condemned by our home secretary.

Yeah, it's cute that a guy has a caravan and some sheep and moves from place to place. But we can't enjoy that video and ignore the persecution of the GRT community.

J

[Cudzoziemiec]

I don't think there are such communities in the USA though, at least not as a recognisable ethnic group. But your comment might be all the more relevant because of that. I reckon the biggest targets of the UK's currently proposed legislation are not Traveller communities but people who can't afford the rent. They probably constitute the largest number of vehicle dwellers already, at least in urban areas. We're told this guy became "voluntarily homeless" but I wonder if there weren't similar causes?

[Sergeant Pluck]

He struck me as the type of person who would probably have difficulty living in conventional society due to social/mental/psychological reasons but whereas many like that would drop out or more likely fall out into drugs, crime, violence, and many ways of harming themselves and others either deliberately or accidentally,

I can’t see anything that shows he has social, mental or psychological issues that would make it difficult for him to live in conventional society.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.

'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

[Cudzoziemiec]

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types).

I thought it was going to be about "year out before (or in the middle of) uni" types!

[Regulator]

Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.

'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

Is that actually true?   Whilst they may not pay income tax or council tax, they'll still be paying other taxes (e.g. VAT, which in 2019/20 was 16.2% of all tax receipts in the UK) or - in the case of this chap in the US - local state taxes.  Arguably, they are also likely to be taking up less/fewer of those 'social enterprise' funded services/utilities.

[quixoticgeek]

Is that actually true?   Whilst they may not pay income tax or council tax, they'll still be paying other taxes (e.g. VAT, which in 2019/20 was 16.2% of all tax receipts in the UK) or - in the case of this chap in the US - local state taxes.  Arguably, they are also likely to be taking up less/fewer of those 'social enterprise' funded services/utilities.

Depends what you buy. In the UK many foods that are considered essentials are zero rated for VAT. e.g. Bread, Milk, Butter. So it is possible to do an entire food shop without paying any VAT. Same if you buy a printed book. It is possible to live in the UK without paying any Tax in any form, but to do that you need to have a very low income, eat very specific stuff, and not buy adult clothes. But if you were actively trying to do it, it would take quite a bit of effort to track everything to make sure you don't trip up.

J

[Mr Larrington]

Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.

'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

Is that actually true?   Whilst they may not pay income tax or council tax, they'll still be paying other taxes (e.g. VAT, which in 2019/20 was 16.2% of all tax receipts in the UK) or - in the case of this chap in the US - local state taxes.  Arguably, they are also likely to be taking up less/fewer of those 'social enterprise' funded services/utilities.

No sales tax in Oregon.  Funny place.  They still have petril pump attendants.

[quixoticgeek]

No sales tax in Oregon.  Funny place.  They still have petril pump attendants.

Not any more. Rules changed a year or so ago.

J

[Mr Larrington]

No sales tax in Oregon.  Funny place.  They still have petril pump attendants.

Not any more. Rules changed a year or so ago.

J

Self-service has permitted in low-population counties post-2018 but the statewide thing is apparently a “temporary” response to these plague-ridden times.  They were still very much in evidence in 2018 in Klamath Falls, where the attendant was confuzzled by his petril pump's inability to interrogate my credit card.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Re: The Good Life, I did think "Tom and Barbara eat your hearts out!" But I seem to remember that in the end Tom went back to the draftsman's office... Anyway, it was a funny show.

'the good life' got that bit right. They struggled for money, and Tom had to periodically drop back into 'normal 9-5' to get by.

My pet peeve of 'drop out and travel' people is that many of them utterly ignore that they are making use of the benefits of 'social enterprise' in the form of roads, utilities, etc. They ignore that much of what they depend on is paid by taxation and don't contribute themselves.

(This is not an attack on the Roma or Travelling community, but the 'new age traveller' types). I've had a few NaTs as friends or acquaintances, and only one of them recognised the value of taxation as a contribution to society. The rest were a resentful bunch who did everything they could to avoid contributing to society at large, often decrying the benefits of anarchy (some, ironically, claiming benefits).

We get a veg box from a family over the hill. Mum, daughter and son. He worked as a landscape gardener until he had enough money to buy a croft. Mum bought the house. They get by eating what they grow and selling veg to the community. Basically traditional small scale farming. They work damn hard.

Is that actually true?   Whilst they may not pay income tax or council tax, they'll still be paying other taxes (e.g. VAT, which in 2019/20 was 16.2% of all tax receipts in the UK) or - in the case of this chap in the US - local state taxes.  Arguably, they are also likely to be taking up less/fewer of those 'social enterprise' funded services/utilities.

For the ones I knew personally, they went to great lengths to avoid paying:
Council tax
Income tax (including NI)
Water and sewage rates (by getting water from a sympathetic householder)
Licences (many of them were boat-dwellers)
Fuel tax (using red diesel instead for everything)

[Cudzoziemiec]

But was that motivated by anarchist opposition to the existence of the state, or possibly just to the current UK state, or simply a desire to spend less money?

[mrcharly-YHT]

But was that motivated by anarchist opposition to the existence of the state, or possibly just to the current UK state, or simply a desire to spend less money?

I can't say what their personal motivations were, just what I observed.

Many propounded anarchist beliefs (but as stated, they claimed benefits).

My belief on why they behaved like this?
Some didn't like working much and resented other people having things that they personally couldn't afford. They'd rather smoke spliffs and bitch about oppression.
Some had health issues that made it difficult to work and were living on the margins, 'on the pan crack'.
Some harboured a deep-held resentment against 'the man' and pushed back against anything that looked like conformance. There is some crossover between groups.

[JennyB]

There's a lot of the whole self sufficient homesteading type things. John Seymour wrote a book about it which inspired a certain popular Sitcom (The good life), as well as kick started a publishing company (Dorling Kingsley) AFAIK.

Didn't know that about DK and John Seymour. I've always seen Seymour as a sort of old Colonial type, and a bit out of place among his readership. Back in the day my interest leaned more to EF Schumacher and Ivan Illich. DK books all have a similar feel to them: beautifully put together and seemingly comprehensive, but never quite as helpful or inspiring as you hope they would be.
 

In recent years it's been picked up a bit by what is oft referred to as cottagecore. Many a person craving for dropping out of society to live on their plot of land in a nice cottage with their partner, to grow their own veg, to have a sheep and a cow, and breed horses. And ya know what. HOLY FUCK is there some shit to unravel in how the message comes across to us all.

https://twitter.com/SarahTaber_bww/status/1443225915073437698

This twitter thread is long, and it's one hell of a ride. I highly recommend it. As someone who owns more than one of John Seymour's books. And as someone who dreams of a cottage with a garden. It's one hell of an eye opener.

It is indeed, and it ties in with a lot of what I've been thinking lately. Why are we tempted by such visions of self-reliant ingenuity? What is the difference between working all the hours God sends to provide for ourselves on a smallholding and earning a wage doing something totally unrelated? Why does capital increasingly seek to remove workers control of the means of production? Why does Sheep Guy need so many side hustles? Why is there so little we can do to help our neighbours, and they us?

[Cudzoziemiec]

Had a quick look at that twitter thread and it seems to be about Mormon links to instagram influencers???

[mrcharly-YHT]

The area of the twitter thread seems to be settlement of midwest USA. She's expanded that event to all of USA society.

A bit of a reach.

There are areas of USA and canada where the settlement pattern was totally different. Think of all the scots who ended up there because of the clearances. They didn't 'buy land off land barons' and spread out.

[barakta]

I hadn't thought of the Gypsy Traveller Roma comparison with Aaron, but that is a very good point. In the UK we would absolutely treat someone like him with suspicion in many places although I can imagine in more rural areas someone might become well enough known and trusted to get by.

It's not the way I'd want to live but I thought it interesting that he was functional with it. I have more than one family member who has wanted to live a bit like Aaron does, but simply don't have the mental stability, organisation or other skills to make it anything other than a painful disaster.