Author Topic: All Wheel drive bike  (Read 624 times)

All Wheel drive bike
« on: 13 October, 2021, 03:57:53 pm »
Van Moof are releasing an electric bike with motor on each wheel.

Looks interesting

https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/vanmoof-v?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=211012_joinwaitlist_uk#

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #1 on: 14 October, 2021, 07:29:26 am »
Why have dual suspension *and* fat tyres?

Looks to me like someone's decided to make the 'ultimate' bike as dreamt by someone who doesn't know much about bikes...

Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #2 on: 14 October, 2021, 08:38:07 am »
It does look rather ugly and uncomfortable..

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #3 on: 14 October, 2021, 09:03:34 am »
What does 2wd offer?  There's not going to be many situations where you can get the giant rear tyre to slip with only 1kW of motor. And given you are going to have more weight on that one than the front one, there's going to have to be an interesting torque split to ensure the rear wheel is the first one to slip. The whole thing looks like a solution in search of a problem.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #4 on: 14 October, 2021, 09:38:37 am »
What does 2wd offer?  There's not going to be many situations where you can get the giant rear tyre to slip with only 1kW of motor. And given you are going to have more weight on that one than the front one, there's going to have to be an interesting torque split to ensure the rear wheel is the first one to slip. The whole thing looks like a solution in search of a problem.

van Moof normally have their motors in the front wheel.
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #5 on: 14 October, 2021, 10:36:35 am »
"...will breed new life into our streets."  there's too much life there already.

It's also billed as a "speed" bike, not an "assistance" bike, so either their marketing department contains a bunch of anti-social shits, or they are just thick.  Oh, and the design sucks, too.  So I guess it's got everything going for it and will soon become the 2-wheeled wank-panzer of choice.

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #6 on: 14 October, 2021, 11:06:24 am »
It is an electric moped. Top speed of 31mph.

Absolutely no value in being AWD.

The frame design is quite clever, and should enable the use of a standard full rack and panniers on the rear. That would be unsuspended weight, but is still a decent idea (if you really feel you need suspension when touring).
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #7 on: 14 October, 2021, 11:38:38 am »
It's also billed as a "speed" bike, not an "assistance" bike, so either their marketing department contains a bunch of anti-social shits, or they are just thick.  Oh, and the design sucks, too.  So I guess it's got everything going for it and will soon become the 2-wheeled wank-panzer of choice.
I think the answer is neither - "speed bike" is basically a category of e-bike in the Netherlands, with higher limits for speed and power, and restrictions on who can ride them I suspect these connect up to their moped legislation.
I kinda agree with their point - I believe that drivers see a bike riding at 15mph as an inconvenience to get past asap, whereas something that does 30mph and behaves like traffic is given significantly more respect. In terms of usage, while 15mph might be fine in cities, if you want to go more than a couple of miles then something that can do 30mph makes the journey fast enough to compete directly with a car (or motorbike) on convenience. The Van Moof perspective: https://www.vanmoof.com/blog/en/ties-carlier-why-its-time-to-update-europes-outdated-e-bike-speed-limit

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #8 on: 14 October, 2021, 12:20:34 pm »
Duncan, I understand the points you are making and they are fair.  My comments are based on my experience of e-bikes and scooters and their use in Rochdale, where weaponising is not rare, although not total! 

EDIT:  They WILL be used anywhere the rider wants to go, rather than where they are legal.  The thought of something silent coming up behind me at 30 miles an hour (which WILL happen) is something the should also exercise the minds of the people who enable it and not just rders.  Mugger-mobile, motorised-mule could be alternative names for something that on the face of it (and according to the publicity) also has the potential to get cars off the road.  I suspect a significant factor may be whether or not you'll be able to ride one through MacDonalds and the other chemicals-are-us outlets!

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #9 on: 14 October, 2021, 12:25:29 pm »
What does 2wd offer?

A gearless hub motor can function as a kind of ABS braking in regen mode, which can be useful on the front wheel for technical descents.  They don't seem to have realised that, though.  In this case I think it's about teh shiny, which is surely VanMoof's thing.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #10 on: 14 October, 2021, 12:35:09 pm »
Yup.

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #11 on: 14 October, 2021, 02:28:25 pm »
Duncan, I understand the points you are making and they are fair.  My comments are based on my experience of e-bikes and scooters and their use in Rochdale, where weaponising is not rare, although not total! 

EDIT:  They WILL be used anywhere the rider wants to go, rather than where they are legal.  The thought of something silent coming up behind me at 30 miles an hour (which WILL happen) is something the should also exercise the minds of the people who enable it and not just rders.  Mugger-mobile, motorised-mule could be alternative names for something that on the face of it (and according to the publicity) also has the potential to get cars off the road.  I suspect a significant factor may be whether or not you'll be able to ride one through MacDonalds and the other chemicals-are-us outlets!
You can already buy electric mopeds that do 30mph and cost under £3k. Loads of them here: https://urbanebikes.com/collections/electric-mopeds
If you need tax, MOT, license, and a number plate, you might as well get something that looks like a moped than something that looks like a bicycle.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #12 on: 14 October, 2021, 03:27:28 pm »
I saw two electric moped riders drinking at a riverside pub yesterday. One of the mopeds had, astonishingly, a registration. Later they passed me on the path – I'd have to check if it's technically a footpath or bridleway, lots of people do cycle on it (it might actually be a footpath with cycling rights rather than bridleway) – but it's certainly not a RoW for mopeds. However, they were riding no faster than a cyclist and both said thank you as I stepped aside for them. In fact my only complaint about these particular two would be their headlights were rather dazzling.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #13 on: 14 October, 2021, 03:30:57 pm »
Back to the Van Moof. It's ugly, as all Van Moofs are (IMO). They at least have consistent styling! 2WD is presumably going to be advantageous off-road. There have been experiments at making 2WD conventional (petrol) motorbikes, using chains and things to the front wheel, but never with much success.

As for the speed, I thought, without checking, the speed limit for both mopeds and e-speed bikes was 45km/h not 50. But 50km/h is a common urban speed limit and there are markets beyond Europe, so why deprive it of that last 10%? It does say "depending on local regulations and how the bike is registered". Well, that covers their legal arse, I guess.
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Моя планета голубая, я люблю тебя и обнимаю
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #14 on: 14 October, 2021, 03:34:47 pm »
It would be interesting to compare this to MikefromLFE's e-moped: https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=121266.msg1003385;topicseen#new
Riding a bike through a city is like navigating the collective neural pathways of a vast global mind.

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #15 on: 14 October, 2021, 05:26:31 pm »
I have mused as to the viability of making a tandem all wheel drive.  Could be fun.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #16 on: 14 October, 2021, 05:36:14 pm »
I have mused as to the viability of making a tandem all wheel drive.  Could be fun.

There's a lot to be said for independent drive trains...

The obvious approach would be the Pino/Morpheus arrangement, with a FWD recumbent drivetrain.
Careful, Kim. Your sarcasm's showing...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #17 on: 14 October, 2021, 05:51:50 pm »

I always think of Van Moof as being to cycling, as Brew Dog is to brewing.

Excellent PR, reasonable product, and a major attitude problem.

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Re: All Wheel drive bike
« Reply #18 on: 14 October, 2021, 10:18:11 pm »
I have mused as to the viability of making a tandem all wheel drive.  Could be fun.

Our Moulton ATB tandem conversion is all wheel drive; the pedals drive the rear wheel, and the ARCC e-kit drives the front.

Turning on loose surfaces can be tricky as the front wheel sometimes starts to slip sideways, so I pull one of the brake levers slightly to cut the e-assist off.