Power Meter - worth it?

[ravenbait]

I was a fairly useful triathlete (for my age) a while back, but then I got swine flu, and then covid (probably -- it was before they were testing everyone) and my lungs aren't great. And early menopause has resulted in my being more injury prone than I used to be, and I was always pretty accident-prone, so a combination of the two has led to protracted periods of not being as active as I used to be.

For Reasons, I have been able to indulge myself with a Fenix 7 recently, with n+1 arriving in a couple of weeks. I am contemplating adding a power meter to my gadget list, but they seem to be terribly expensive. I'd need a pedal-based one for swapping between bikes (unless there is a better option). I very much appreciate the Garmin's recovery advisor, because I have a tendency to overdo things and then fall over, but the Training Status requires VO2 and I'm not running right now because I've damaged my ankle.

My goals: I'd like to go back to triathlon next year, starting with sprint. I'd also like to work up to perhaps 400km audax and see how I feel about it (I'm happy doing 100km just for fun at the moment, my longest ride ever is about 225km). I'm not necessarily fussed about winning races, but I don't want to be at the back because that would just be miserable. So maybe 40mins for the 20km? That doesn't seem unreasonable.

Are power meters worth it? What are the current best options for a multi-bike stable? I have Look on my geared road bikes, but Time ATACs on my fixie workhorse. I don't have the budget for two separate power meters.

I have a dumb turbo and usually just watch netflix while doing Garmin training programmes. Would I be better off getting a smart trainer and using that for structured training? It looks like a smart trainer can be had for about the same price as a power meter.

Sam

[Legs]

I've got a Tacx Neo 2T smart turbo for which I've got a dedicated crap bike set up.  It's absolutely brilliant; very immersive when riding on Zwift, which is where I do the majority of my riding nowadays.  You can pick one up from £870 at the moment - they were £700 in the Zwift shop last week but now sold out.

Having a smart trainer allows you to use erg mode for workouts, which is absolutely brilliant because all you have to do is turn the pedals and the machine takes care of making sure you're developing the right power throughout the interval.

I don't have power measurement on my road-going bikes but if I did I'd probably plump for Favero Assioma Duo pedals, especially if I was wanting to switch them around between different bikes.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Never used one on a bike, but have used them on devices in a gym, particularly a hand-crank machine (think handcycle).

Seeing peak watts output and the average over a session wasn't just an incentivizer, it really helped me see if I was improving.

[DuncanM]

What cleat system do you want to use? I don't think there are any power pedals for Time cleats - would you be OK using road shoes with the fixie or do you need the ability to walk? Or maybe leave the fixie as is and just stick to Look cleats/shoes for the power meter and don't touch he fixie. I got Powertap P1 pedals a few years ago so I could switch between road and TT bikes, but they aren't much use for CX! Changing pedals to go for a ride is a faff, so you might not bother if you have to change every few days or something.

How much of a numbers type person are you?  Will you enjoy seeing your FTP go up 1W, or how many TSS you just accrued during a ride, or do you not really care about that sort of thing?
Personally, I think a power meter is probably more useful than a smart trainer because it means you can train with power outdoors as well, but I use both (got a Tacx wheel-on smart trainer secondhand). I guess if most of your training is on the turbo, maybe that's not so much of a concern.

[rafletcher]

If you want proper data then a double sided pedal option would seem to be best.  I have Garmin Vector 3's (not 3s) on one of my bikes (Look Keo cleats), and a chainset spider one of Chinese origin (Sigeyei or some-such - DC rainmaker thought it was ok) on another.  The Vectors cost me £385 on eBay a while back.  Theye were an older model which had issues with the battery connections. I took a flyer and registered them, then asked for the free upgrade, and got it.

I like the data from the Garmins, even if I don't really do antything about it.  It gives lots of info, including power balance l/r, the "offeset" on each pedal from true centre, degrees of rotation where you're putting power down, etc. etc.

Glossing over the pathetic power figures...

Garmin by Richard Fletcher, on Flickr

Garmin by Richard Fletcher, on Flickr

[rafletcher]

Also, structured training on a smart turbo is good - and if you join the Garmon ecosystem, you can record your turbo rides on the Edge computer too, and then upload to Garmin Connect for the data.  Plus the smart turbo (a second-hand Elite Direto will set you back around £200, a used Wahoo Kickr £500) can be linked, should you wish, to VR apps like FulGaz, so you can ride "real" rides on the turbo when the weather is less than clemant.. They've just been bought out by Ironman - so there are full ironman tri's to ride now as well. Other VR apps are avaible - Rouvy, Zwift being the two that are probabaly the biggest.

[ravenbait]

I am a sad numbers badger. I am motivated by Garmin badges (Level 5, aiming for Level 6, I sign up to every challenge). I used to be part of the Suunto ecosystem, but that led to over-training because I could make the numbers go up and up and up. It took the Polar training curves to get my over-training under control, but then they took those away and withdrew support for the RX5, so I've been Garmin all the way for about 4 years.

I need CX pedals on the fixie because Looks are a PITA to clip into when they're moving, to the point where it's hazardous. So I'd either be spending a crapton on the spindles plus various bodies, which is a massive faff, or swapping between road bikes and not bothering on the fixie, which is eminently doable. I used to swap pedals for triathlon all the time. Or I just get a smart trainer. Or I get a left side only pedal AND a second hand smart trainer, and use the one on the bike for trends rather than accuracy. I'm not that fussed about being super accurate, just in whether I'm getting better or not.

Sam

[DuncanM]

Yeah, I put the Powertaps on the fixie when I TT on it, but I wouldn't want to do that in traffic. I don't think switching pedal bodies on a regular basis is a great idea, so I'd forget about the fixie and concentrate on bikes you will be "training" on. I suspect that it's quite hard to really screw up well made pedals or turbos, which is why I got secondhand pedals, and a secondhand smart turbo.
Given the choice between double sided pedals or single sided and a smart turbo, I'd probably do the latter, just because there's not much you can do with the L/R numbers, even if you do collect them, while the smart turbo makes things nicer every time you get on the thing.

FWIW, while I have L/R pedals, and I can see the balance on my headunit, I do my ride analysis on Trainer Road, and they don't bother with anything to do with L/R. Unless you have a significant imbalance, I doubt there is a huge amount you can learn/action with it.

[jiberjaber]

I am a sad numbers badger. I am motivated by Garmin badges (Level 5, aiming for Level 6, I sign up to every challenge). I used to be part of the Suunto ecosystem, but that led to over-training because I could make the numbers go up and up and up. It took the Polar training curves to get my over-training under control, but then they took those away and withdrew support for the RX5, so I've been Garmin all the way for about 4 years.

I need CX pedals on the fixie because Looks are a PITA to clip into when they're moving, to the point where it's hazardous. So I'd either be spending a crapton on the spindles plus various bodies, which is a massive faff, or swapping between road bikes and not bothering on the fixie, which is eminently doable. I used to swap pedals for triathlon all the time. Or I just get a smart trainer. Or I get a left side only pedal AND a second hand smart trainer, and use the one on the bike for trends rather than accuracy. I'm not that fussed about being super accurate, just in whether I'm getting better or not.

Sam

I like the numbers, especially how many calories I've burnt = more Essex Energy Drinks

You can get a couple of non-drive side crank arms from 4viiii PRECISION for the price of a double sided SPD power pedals.  I've got 2 of the V2 4viiii on my bikes (one fixed)  and just got the new V3 on the gravel bike which offers  800hr of battery life apparently - of course if you are not running the shimano style crankset, that might be a bit more tricky.   Also need to check clearance between crank arm and chain stay.

I've a pair of Vector 2 which were a royal PIA when I first got them (the usual beta tester for Garmin syndrome and then temperature effects shortening the battery life during winter months).  I was half tempted by the new SPD style ones but I've had good support on warranty from 4iiii - better than I've had from Garmin, though I did get new pods out of them early on.

The V2's are now sat on the turbo bike.

[ravenbait]

Yeah, I don't have Shimano on any of my bikes. I've got Truvativ on the fixie, Campag on the Pinarello, and N+1 will have SRAM on it. It's why I was considering pedals.

I wonder if being a regular fixie rider impacts your L/R balance? I'd have thought it would improve it. I'm not that fussed about the balance, though.

Sam

[jiberjaber]

Yeah, I don't have Shimano on any of my bikes. I've got Truvativ on the fixie, Campag on the Pinarello, and N+1 will have SRAM on it. It's why I was considering pedals.

I wonder if being a regular fixie rider impacts your L/R balance? I'd have thought it would improve it. I'm not that fussed about the balance, though.

Sam

Mine overs between a couple of % either side, but more on the left than right when I do use the V2 pedals.  You could get just a single sided SPD power meter I suppose, then on 1 thing to move around, but still a PIA - I think the V3 onwards of Garmin pedals are not as intolerant of pedal torque as the V2s were... but that would need someone who owns some to confirm.

[ElyDave]

Also, structured training on a smart turbo is good - and if you join the Garmon ecosystem, you can record your turbo rides on the Edge computer too, and then upload to Garmin Connect for the data.  Plus the smart turbo (a second-hand Elite Direto will set you back around £200, a used Wahoo Kickr £500) can be linked, should you wish, to VR apps like FulGaz, so you can ride "real" rides on the turbo when the weather is less than clemant.. They've just been bought out by Ironman - so there are full ironman tri's to ride now as well. Other VR apps are avaible - Rouvy, Zwift being the two that are probabaly the biggest.

+1 for the turbo approach, I use a StacZero.  I don't know about modern pedal/crank based systems, but I knew a guy with a powertap hub that needed to get it periodically calibrated.

I like the ability to use one the apps (I use BigRingVR) and re-ride the same route under more stable conditions to assess any changes, without the effects of wind/rain.  A bit harder of course in the summer when temp/humidity effects come into play, but I tend to use the winter for the more structured stuff.

[mike]

I bought assioma pedals so I could do interval training, because using heart rate I was too slow to react to changes and I'd over-cook myself in the first few minutes.   They're brilliant, if you can cope with Look cleats - really quick to swap between bikes, zero in seconds, batteries last for ages (they recharge quickly too) and they work perfectly with Wahooo headset.

I ignore the numbers on longer rides and use heart rate or just how I feel. 

[ravenbait]

They look really good, thanks! I really struggle with high intensity HR-based intervals, because some of my programmes require Zone 5 for 10 seconds then Zone 4 for a minute -- my heart can't jump from Zone 4 to Zone 5 and back again that quickly!

Sam

[ravenbait]

I ended up getting a relatively cheap Tacx Flow (my previous trainer was a Taxc Sirius, about 15 years old), on the basis that I could add Assioma pedals and the total package still come in at less than a Tacx Neo, and we don't have space for a Tacx Neo. One day, should we have a secure shed, I may have a permanent pain cave, but at the moment it has to be all put away compactly in a corner of the hall.

I've started using the Tacx app for its structured training plans, although I get a month's free Zwift as well. I can already see that this will be much more effective for training than the HR-based training I was doing on the old one.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

Sam

[jiberjaber]

Glad you got a solution that works for you in the end 

[toontra]

Even on long rides when power isn't so relevant, I find it useful to know what my output is on occasion. For example, when on a false flat it's reassuring to know that your perceived effort is due to the gradient and not you running out of energy (or slacking ). Also on long climbs you can judge your effort to prevent imploding if going too hard.

But in general it really comes into its own for training rides so you can compare with indoor sessions on the trainer.

Sent from my 21051182G using Tapatalk

[T42]

I used to have a counter that gave you a rough wattage estimate based on total weight, speed & slope.  Doubtless very inaccurate but it gave me a yardstick for long climbs - stay under XXX watts and I could go on forever sort of thing.  It crapped out years ago but I still miss it (sniff).

[hatler]

snippity snip

I like the data from the Garmins, even if I don't really do antything about it.  It gives lots of info, including power balance l/r, the "offeset" on each pedal from true centre, degrees of rotation where you're putting power down, etc. etc.

Glossing over the pathetic power figures...

How does the machine know whether you're in or out of the saddle ?

[Lightning Phil]

snippity snip

I like the data from the Garmins, even if I don't really do antything about it.  It gives lots of info, including power balance l/r, the "offeset" on each pedal from true centre, degrees of rotation where you're putting power down, etc. etc.

Glossing over the pathetic power figures...

How does the machine know whether you're in or out of the saddle ?

The accelerometer and strain gauge data which will look different out of the saddle compared to seated I’d imagine.